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Originally Posted by rrsteer Hi Androdev, can you throw some more light on the technology gap and other points of differences between Tesla and others? Also since you have worked ith Toyota and have knowledge in this field what are Toyota top three strengths and failures and if you can compare Toyota with Tesla?
Asking these questions totally as an enthusiast. I am ok if you dont feel the need to answer them. |
@rrsteer, I ran out of steam on this thread man
To be honest my understanding is limited to motors so I may not be qualified to make sweeping statements on the complete stack. Hope this post is not totally OT.
1. Drivetrain: My involvement was limited to working on a project to localise Toyota's hybrid motor. With decades of experience and after 4 iterations in hybrid tech, Toyota is pretty good at technology related to motor + control systems + battery. Equally important, they produce these cars at larger scale, higher reliability and lower cost than others. Hybrid and full EV are very similar in terms of components and controls: essentially extracting maximum juice out of battery while being extremely reliable under harsh working conditions. If you take Prius Plug-In Hybrid which has a range of 25 miles using a motor + controller + battery stack, they are solving the same problem as Tesla but with a totally different customer in mind. Tesla stack is 'revolutionary' because of simple hardware components (3 phase squirrel cage induction motor, invented by Nikola Tesla hence the name btw, no gearbox as it uses only 1sp reduction, etc) coupled with very sophisticated, highly tuned controllers. And their touchscreen replacing all buttons and stuff
Toyota stack is more complicated hardware (permanent magnet BLDC motors, e-cvt gearbox, of ource the ICE) coupled with less sophisticated hardware. Tesla claims they got super simple hardware setup that is cheaper to manufacture and easy to scale but in practice it is Toyota that is cheaper and produced in much bigger numbers if you consider their complete hybrid range. I can get more technical about the motor used by both companies but it will not add much value to the discussion because what matters is the optimization of motor+controller+battery stack and not just individual items.
Quoting from the blog on Tesla website:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/induction...ushless-motors Quote:
Both DC brushless and induction drives use motors having similar stators. Both drives use 3-phase modulating inverters. The only differences are the rotors and the inverter controls. And with digital controllers, the only control differences are with control code.
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So as far as drivetrain is concerned, the analogies of disruption faced by Kodak and Nokia don't apply here in my opinion. I don't think any of the major auto companies fear Tesla's drive train technology as much as their 'brand appeal'. Let us move on to the other technologies involved.
2. Auto Pilot/Self-driving: In my opinion this is the most disruptive thing and for sure to have huge implications. Nobody is sure of the future of Lithium battery based EVs but everyone is sure that self-driving cars are the future. But so many big players are working on this including Google and Uber, so I am not sure if Tesla can have much competive edge. If you are an investor, this is what you should bet on and not the EV stuff. EV cars are easy to make and will get even more easier to make. But the self-driving tech depends on machine learned AI and like Google search the more you learn the harder it is for others to catch up. Even though Tesla is the first to do this, other companies have much bigger fleet with much more varying data to learn from so this space is wide open. Imagine a Google+Toyota like partnership, Tesla doesn't stand a chance.
3. Software over the air: Cool feature, will be standard in other cars soon I hope. Everything in a car is already a microprocessor and CAN bus networked, dealers routinely perform such software updates.
4. Charging: Can easily done by others as well, in fact like petrol stations, it will become 3rd party business.
5. Gigafactories: Would Lithium be the mainstay of battery technology? For how long? In the EV stack motors and controllers are the stable pieces but battery technology is open for disruption. In fact, if you ask me the EV technology development is already behind us because a traction motor and controller are as old as electric trains. Everyone is now chasing the battery technology.
Then why don't other companies make EVs when Tesla is becoming a roaring success. Tesla is making losses and it's valuation is based on it's future potential, a silicon valley gamble. No established player will be allowed to run a EV program for 8 years without becoming profitable. So it is about profitability which is very important for their board, investors, etc. but they are watching this space and preparing themselves. They are more worried about govt regulations to ban ICE than Tesla having monopoly of 1% EV cars catering to $45K MSRP. In fact, Toyota CEO said in an interview that the German luxury brands are more worried about Tesla and not Toyota.