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Old 20th June 2018, 12:02   #91
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Default re: Tesla incurs loss of £523 million. EDIT: Now posts a profit!

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Originally Posted by V12Doc View Post
I am not nitpicking the stalks or the switches. I am nitpicking the overall experience in general. It is not a well built car compared to the old car companies. It is just a showcase of ground breaking technology.
I agree. I get to ride in Tesla taxiís quite often. I am not impressed by the overall finish inside and the look and feel of the materials. Also, I donít like that huge display that does everything. The novelty wears off very quickly. I wonder if Tesla went one step to far with that. Lots of people like the idea of an electric car, but why does it have to look so futuristic in the inside? I prefer a more old school dashboard, switches and stalks.

Thatís is what more or less everybody else seem to be aiming at. A ďregularĒ car just run on batteries. The Tesla takes that a step further.

Jeroen
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Old 21st June 2018, 00:33   #92
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Default re: Tesla incurs loss of £523 million. EDIT: Now posts a profit!

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I agree. I get to ride in Tesla taxi’s quite often. Also, I don’t like that huge display that does everything. The novelty wears off very quickly. I wonder if Tesla went one step to far with that. Lots of people like the idea of an electric car, but why does it have to look so futuristic in the inside? I prefer a more old school dashboard, switches and stalks.
That’s is what more or less everybody else seem to be aiming at. A “regular” car just run on batteries. The Tesla takes that a step further.
I will disagree that it is a novelty that will wear off. All this inference from sitting in a Taxi? You need to experience the ownership to truly appreciate all that it can do, and decide if it is novelty. You cannot explain the joy of being able to use your app to ensure the car is topped off just before going to bed, for your early morning road trip (that your wife just told you about).

At my workplace there are several Model S, and Model 3 owners. I have friends who have sold their second ICE car to get another Tesla. The Model3s have been with owners for more than 6 months. Needless to say Model S has been with owners for more than 5 years now. Pretty much all the owners I know will not buy any other car (EV or not). In SoCal with a lot of Home Solar installations, we have a lot of EVs in the market. A large percentage who can afford go with Teslas for a reason. The tech enables them to do things that other cars in the market cannot.

I have had my Model3 for 3 months and 3k miles. The car keeps getting better every couple weeks. No, I do not have to touch the screen often to do stuff. I can do a lot of things using voice, the rest of it is set to auto adjust. The large screen is awesome for rear view/backing up. The list of things that have gotten better in the weekly updates is long. Here is one from last week. I was resigned to the fact that during sunset when the sun is directly inline with the rear view camera, and some dirt on the camera, you would have a crappy view. It is the same crappy view in other luxury vehicles (under the same conditions). Last week's update clearly made the Model3 rear view remarkably better. It is like, they gave sunglasses to the rear view camera. In another update they mapped the cruise adjusting from the screen to the scroll wheel on the steering. Another update had ABS related tuning because of the critical CR review. I can go on and on about these OTA updates, and the supercharger network. So you have a new novelty every Friday. :-)

I do not want to get into the debate of the economics of manufacturing. There is a lot going on because of ICE giants being caught with their knickers down, and the stock market. I also do not want to debate about touch and feel of Vegan leather Vs Leather. These things are subjective, but should not be deal breakers.

This I can say from riding in the 2017 Audi Q7 last week. The buttons and touch pads are ridiculous. There are small LCD displays, and backlit buttons everywhere. To backup you need to peek into a tiny screen, or look back. Compare this to a crisp positioning with specific distance from each object all around in a Tesla, or its auto park feature that guides you with the enormous screen.

Last edited by GutsyGibbon : 21st June 2018 at 00:39.
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Old 21st June 2018, 01:36   #93
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Default Tesla incurs loss of £523 million in the first 3 months of 2018

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The buttons and touch pads are ridiculous. There are small LCD displays, and backlit buttons everywhere. To backup you need to peek into a tiny screen, or look back. Compare this to a crisp positioning with specific distance from each object all around in a Tesla, or its auto park feature that guides you with the enormous screen.

That is all personal preference. I don't like it. The more switches, dials, stalks the better as far as I am concerned.

Great to hear you enjoy your Tesla. Don't hold your breath for me getting one. I am very likely to get me some electric vehicle in the near future. unlikely to be a Tesla. Too futuristic for my. Technology must be understated. And nobody and I mean nobody has ever convinced me a touch screen is better than a real Switch.. I am typing this very message on some IPhone. I would love it to be my blackberry with a proper keyboard!

Just personal preference. There is an design axiom. It says you should never change more than one fundamental piece of design/technology on any product. Tesla changes two. It is all electric and it's a very different driver interface. Not everybody might appreciate that. We will see how it works out. Neither your or my preferences can be extrapolated towards the future.

Just because I like or dislike something doesn't mean anything on a global scale. People quite often make this mistake. Projecting their own thought/experiences/preferences to a global scale. If you are right you are just Joe average, if you are wrong, well you are just wrong.

I have no idea whether Tesla is going to be successfully. They won't if the majority of people thinks like me. But then experience has shown my opinion rarely is held in high regards by any majority. Neither have I been called Joe Average either, ever.

I do hope Tesla will be successful for no other reason I believe current car manufacturers and their senior management are by and large an utterly pathetic lot. So somebody better shake up this industry. Tesla has that potential. But I still don't like that huge screen. And the design axiom is real. Look it up. Lots of products failed because too many changes were introduced at once. People will always claim they want something new, but in reality most people are creatures of habit and want only small dosis of change measured out in their life. And I think that goes for car's dash boards as well, but don't quote me on it!


Jeroen

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Old 21st June 2018, 03:48   #94
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Default re: Tesla incurs loss of £523 million. EDIT: Now posts a profit!

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That is all personal preference. I don't like it. The more switches, dials, stalks the better as far as I am concerned.
Sure, I can understand preference. The question is about designing something that is practical. If you need to look and press a series of buttons to program a garage opener, it defeats the purpose. Cars are places where we spend a lot of time, talking, eating doing what not. The spaces between buttons attract a lot of dust and junk that is harder to vacuum out, or use wipes. In comparison, you need 2 swipes, one of the dash and one of the monitor to clean a Model3. That is practical design. How many people will opt in or opt out because of such design - time will tell. Most people opt in to Model3 because they need an EV, range, and SC.

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Mercedes EQ Series and Jaguar I - Pace is going to be a game changer for sure.
Even though most trips are shorter than 50 miles, people buy cars to cover those one-off situations. Like buying 4WD SUVs that will never see a trail. I will consider these as contenders when I can see people do coast to coast trips, or decent road trips. This is a no brainer with thousands of supercharger locations operational today, and more coming online right now.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/16/...ettlemen-truck
Today when you buy an EV, you are buying into their charging network. Others dont even have decent plans on paper to cover states with massive number of EVs.
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Old 21st June 2018, 09:32   #95
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Default re: Tesla incurs loss of £523 million. EDIT: Now posts a profit!

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The question is about designing something that is practical. .
Again, it really depends on your preferences/perspective. Not everybody is impressed by practical cars. Buying a practical car is like buying a practical hoover. Very few car adds these days try to appeal to practicality.

The last thing I worry about in a car, is whether it is practical. I want it first and foremost to look great!!

From the outside, but also on the inside. Especially the dashboard needs to have a high WOW factor. A digital display isn’t. Even though it is very easy to clean it doesn’t float my boat.

Secondly, how does it make me look like? Well, and again this is personal, I do not like to be seen going with the in-crowd or going with the fad of the month/year. Or be seen with a product that for whatever reason, enjoys a certain questionable reputation for the crowd it attracts (Say Porsche of BMW in Europe).

As I said, I really like Tesla to be successful. Although the question begs how much disruption can they really bring to the US car market. Nobody believes they will be number one in EV, at best a middle player given the size of the other US home players. And they are cranking out lots of EVs as it is. You could argue that they might not sport an iPad like dashboard, but they do put them out in numbers and had no problems ramping up their production.

Don’t like middle of the road products/companies either. So the chances of me ever owning a Tesla are still remote at best.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 21st June 2018 at 09:38.
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Old 21st June 2018, 11:34   #96
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Default re: Tesla incurs loss of £523 million. EDIT: Now posts a profit!

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Today when you buy an EV, you are buying into their charging network. Others dont even have decent plans on paper to cover states with massive number of EVs.
Yes, of course. Tesla had did it. So we can easily assume that manufactures like Merc, VAG, Jag, etc can move in the same direction like Tesla for charging networks (own or private tie-ups). That's why I clearly mentioned we need to watch the space by 2019/2020.

Once again Tesla had did a commendable job till date. No two way about it. But when I look for my first electric car it should be like a mainstream existing IC engine-d car with adequate touch for AVN and rest conventional controls, proper digital speedo/Odo, etc. If Jaguar had did the homework correctly in reliability front, then I -Pace is exactly like my type of car. From all leaked videos till date Merc EQC follows same footprint too.

So game on. Let us see how these latecomers are going to catch Tesla in it's own turf. Bit hard but not impossible.

Cheers!

Vinu
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Old 21st June 2018, 19:09   #97
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Default re: Tesla incurs loss of £523 million. EDIT: Now posts a profit!

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Musk claims sabotage by an employee

In a recent post Musk claims sabotage and data theft by an employee on a grand scale. Let is see it this a red herring or something is up.
Fired Tesla Employee Says He’s A Whistleblower, Not A Saboteur!

CEO Elon Musk directed his legal department to file a civil complaint against Tripp in federal court.

Tripp admitted to his actions when confronted by internal investigators. But Tripp paints a different picture.

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I didn’t hack into system. The data I was collecting was so severe, I had to go to the media.” The dismissed employee alleges that Tesla installed damaged batteries in new Model 3 cars delivered to customers, has misrepresented the number of vehicles it’s made, and has been improperly storing potentially hazardous scrap material.

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But Tesla portrays Tripp as a disgruntled former employee with poor job performance who expressed anger at being reassigned instead of getting the promotion he was after. For his part, Tripp denies the allegations. But with the matter now being brought to court, the truth of the matter may yet come to light.

Link
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