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Old 23rd June 2018, 21:15   #1
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Default The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

I want you all to see this drag race between a Jaguar I pace and a Tesla Model X 100d. One's got 400bhp, the other has 500bhp plus. Both supposedly points to the future. Now there is no doubt that these are very fast cars but my god is this race totally boring or what? I would rather watch a drag race between a bog standard polo and a fiesta than this borefest.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I think youre looking at the future. Where every car is going to sound, feel , drive pretty much same. We already got this conundrum in the lower segment ICE cars. Every engine is puny and turbo charged. They all have low down torque but fizzles out like diesels when revved out. Sounds pretty much same too.

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Old 27th June 2018, 10:16   #2
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

They are coming and they are going to be quick as hell. Because of the rapid progress in batteries & EV tech, it's realistic to expect a future C2 segment sedan to do the 0 - 100 in 6 seconds (currently 9 - 10 seconds). Will surely bring performance acceleration to the masses.

But there's no fun in EVs IMHO. The pleasure of a revving a petrol or turbo diesel + shifting gears + enjoying the sound is unparalleled. Comparing that to EVs is like going to the Himalayas vs watching a documentary on the same. Or feasting on cheese naan + kebabs vs eating a factory-produced organic meal. EVs are going to lack the meat. At least for me.

A Tesla Model S is quicker to the 100 than a Porsche 911 Turbo. Ask any enthusiast out there what he'd rather drive. You'll know your answer.
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Old 27th June 2018, 10:45   #3
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
But there's no fun in EVs IMHO. The pleasure of a revving a petrol or turbo diesel + shifting gears + enjoying the sound is unparalleled.
While I agree that EVs today cannot match the fun part of conventional vehicles, I believe this is only because of the fact that focus in EV development till now has primarily been on mainstreaming the technology, affordability and range. The first question anyone asks today on seeing an EV is the range and price. Once these are sorted and there isn't any differentiation on these aspects among manufacturers, the focus will shift on performance. Some decades ago, turbo-diesels were synonymous with hauling cargo than pleasure and see where we have come now.

Electric motors are very efficient piece of equipment but the wave of innovation in electric motors for vehicles is yet to come. The possibilities here are endless and I won't be surprised if few decades later, we have all sorts of tuners able to extract more and more juice from those motors!
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Old 27th June 2018, 11:06   #4
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

Are ALL ICE powered cars fun to drive?

Are ALL ICE+Battery powered cars boring to drive?

Are ALL Battery powered cars boring to drive?

That'll answer your question.
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Old 27th June 2018, 11:16   #5
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Default The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everythin...

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Are ALL ICE powered cars fun to drive?

Are ALL ICE+Battery powered cars boring to drive?

Are ALL Battery powered cars boring to drive?

That'll answer your question.

No, yes, yes for me.
Most fun for me is a petrol engine and low weight. The old Colin Chapman mantra still works. If you have ever driven a Lotus or something similar you will know what I mean. Apart from the petrol engine and low weight not much electronics. My wife, who can be regarded as the person least interested in cars on the planet, drove a friends Lotus the other day. After 20 minutes she came back grinning ear to ear. Never knew driving a car could be this much fun, she said!

Also, it really remains to be seen if power, more power, even more power, is all there is to car fun. Good enjoyable handling doesn't necessarily mean a huge amount of power is required.

But then again, I enjoy classic cars and I can guarantee you it will be several decades before we see vintage EVs.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 27th June 2018 at 11:19.
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Old 27th June 2018, 11:36   #6
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

Interesting topic. But would like to go a little OT:
I was wondering if we had the these forums decades ago when transportation moved from Horses to steam engines and then to IC engines, it would have been an interesting and fun discussion to read. The Horse purists and the enthusiasts would have been crying about the missing Horse hooves sound and human animal connection. And later, the steam enthusiasts would have talked about the missing steam whistle and what not. Now in this decade, we are talking about changing gears and engine sound that we are going to miss in future.
My opinion: change is inevitable and is always an improvement over the current technology, but to accept the change is not something we are conditioned for. People always think what they currently have though not the best, is still the most enjoyable thing and future things are not going to be as enjoyable as it is today. But once we start using the future technology, we will be laughing at our own comments made decades ago.
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Old 27th June 2018, 13:25   #7
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

Off topic scale wise (the physical size is different), this change to EV happened a decade ago in RC vehicles be it cars, trucks, buggies, monster trucks. Even air vehicles like RC plane, helicopters are completly dominated now by electric power.

I rarely touch my engine powered RC cars for one it's noisy as hell, the fuel nitro methanol is very expensive, even petrol is now expensive but have poorer performance then methanol with nitro.

On the other hand I have used my electric RC cars even at night 10pm plus, due to lower or nill traffic in my street. I could never do that even in day time due to noise.

The power the motors produce is insane, totaly destroys any engine powered RC or even real 1:1 sized super car/superbike in acceleration. I have never looked back.

When you look at the way the Rimac C1 out accelerates a Veyron or a La Ferrari you wont miss IC cars, like Richard Hammond said " If that is the future, I am so ready" Grand tour S2E1 .
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Old 27th June 2018, 21:51   #8
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

Volkswagen's Bugatti Chiron does 0-100 in 2.5 seconds.

Volkswagen's electric IDR does it in 2.25 seconds.
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Old 27th June 2018, 22:12   #9
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Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
Volkswagen's Bugatti Chiron does 0-100 in 2.5 seconds.

Volkswagen's electric IDR does it in 2.25 seconds.
It's not about performance alone. The issue is with how that performance is delivered. The overall lack of thrilling experience.
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Old 28th June 2018, 02:15   #10
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

According to me we are not talking about the future of performance, we are talking about the future of the bliss of driving, which is missing in Electric cars and would not be induced in them. Rather, the wheel would also be snatched from us, it would be computers who drive cars.
Cars would be just a means of transport, they would not be something we love or cherish. They won't be something that puts a smile on our faces , They would be like public transport for which we have no feelings. Heck, we won't even own cars, all cars would be owned by ride sharing platforms.
In brief, we would see the end of the era of car enthusiasm, we would see the death of the car lover within us.
We are going to witness the end of a beautiful era. I would be crying when the day comes, It would be morning, I would pick up the newspaper (if it continues to exist until then) and read, "the last car with an IC Engine in the world rolls out of ________ Motors' production line." Soon after we would get to read "_______ becomes the first country with no human drivers". That is the bitter truth.

Last edited by Shreyas Agarwal : 28th June 2018 at 02:19.
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Old 28th June 2018, 05:49   #11
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

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Originally Posted by aamateen46 View Post
It's not about performance alone. The issue is with how that performance is delivered. The overall lack of thrilling experience.
Does the sun rise in the West? Does it get hot in winter? Does an enthusiast fancy electric cars?

--------------------

Nissan GTR with 590 Bhp thrashes a Tesla with 760 BHP:

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Old 28th June 2018, 19:06   #12
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

Everytime I see such a thread, my heart starts hitting hard thinking of my future. No, it's not the career which I'm worried about; but the car which I'd own after I make my career.

For a Young Car Enthusiast, who is in his early teens, always dreamt of a owning car which has a feel and connect which these EVs lack IMHO! No matter how fast an EV does a 0-100 run, it can't come close to the raw feel of an Internal combustion engine. I seriously wish god if I was born at least a 10-years earlier. If that had happened, I would be happily driving around in my vRS by now probably driving my neighbor crazy!

On another hand, my mind accepts this change with a positive thought (one of the many disadvantages of being a science student!) but at the same time, my heart intervenes and says, "May the EVs be damned! All hail ICs!" I seriously wish to own a hell of a machine before they're extinct (a straight 6 petrol is all what I can dream of!).

Varun
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Old 28th June 2018, 19:43   #13
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

I'd be impressed if an electric car can complete Le Mans 24 hour. That will be the ultimate satisfaction. As it is now, these electric cars may do 4, maybe 10 drags in a row before waiting to charge for 3 hours. Minimum. The fueled ones can do it all day long fueling in hardly a few minutes.

Even as an enthusiast, I'd take the electric car once the range, re-fueling part is worked out if it produces more power and torque than a gasoline one. To each his own. Maybe some like the thrum of an IC engine, some the drone of an electric motor.

PS. I consider the electric car Useless with a capital "U" unless the battery is re-invented. Its high time companies stop working on electric cars and start working on batteries. We need a battery that can store 1KWh in 10 cm^3 volume and one that can charge in under a minute.
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:21   #14
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

30-40 years down the line, what sounds would my grandson make while playing with his Hot Wheels? Not vroom-vroom for sure.

Sometimes, I enjoy driving. I can't stand an automatic transmission. It feels too disconnected. I'm assuming proper EVs will be so boring that we'd be looking for a reason to not drive them.

I believe driving EVs will just be a brief phase before we turn them into appliances. Give it time, and we'll have robots racing at Le Mans. I wonder how interesting those 24 hours would be! (Hint: Roborace)

And yet, I can't wait to see EVs spread their wings.

If a quieter, cleaner, safer, simpler, reliable-r, and cheaper appliance can drive me to work and back, then, by all means, I'm going to let it do the work. I will happily limit my recreational driving to weekends. Maybe some of us can have a track-only car or an off-road SUV for occasional use. Perhaps, the rental business can expand to meet our needs.

Either way, I don't mind, coz, I'm first a rider and then a driver. I know they're coming for my bikes too with tech like self-balancing 2-wheelers, adaptive cruise control, collision warning, and avoidance system, Bosch Motorcycle Thrusters and what not. But that's too far into the future.

Perhaps the feeling of not being in control will encourage more drivers to adopt 2 wheels.

Last edited by MaheshY1 : 28th June 2018 at 20:26.
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:21   #15
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Default Re: The future of performance: Are EVs going to show a new path or dull everything down?

The thing that saddens me most thats happening even now is the diminshing variety and choice offered for the enthusiasts because of tightening restrictions. Everything is becoming formulaic.

A few years ago, we could have

High revving top end crazy V8s
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Gigantic V8s with power and noise everywhere

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Similarly maniacal V10s; high revving or twin turbos- choose your pick

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And surely we mourn the passing of our favourite flat 6er.

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