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Old 29th June 2018, 12:54   #46
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Default Re: Govt officials refuse to use electric cars made by Mahindra & Tata Motors

I think somewhere EESL is at fault. Its mandate is to push adoption of EVs but where is the infrastructure? AFAIK govt office complexes or apartments don't have charging facility in parking lots or separate meters to compute electricity costs. The only party here which needs to look at this initiative in a holistic manner is EESL and somewhere they're only doing the bare minimum and pushing the onus on either manufacturers or employees.
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Old 30th June 2018, 09:49   #47
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Default Re: Govt officials refuse to use electric cars made by Mahindra & Tata Motors

This only shows that the shift from combustable fuel cars to electric cars needed another step in the middle, that of a plug in Hybrid. The plug in Hybrid needs a electric only usable range of 80km, so that daily in city use can be only on the battery, but when a longer field trip does comes up, or some issue makes the user do a much longer run on a particular day, the diesel engine starts, and supplies the necessary energy.
This does not make the user search for charging points, when he should be travelling or working.
Even heavy users travel within 100 km for 3 to 4 days a week, and this can be totally on the battery with a mid day quick charge at a available point, but the days he does more upto 50% of his need will again be electric. This will get the fuel usage down by 60% to 80%.

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Old 1st July 2018, 19:16   #48
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Default Re: Govt officials refuse to use electric cars made by Mahindra & Tata Motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by manolin View Post
An official staying in faridabad and working in new Delhi won't be able to a daily round trip in this. And on govt salaries, if you are not provided accommodation, you have to stay in satellite towns.
A round trip can still be easily completed. Simply charge the vehicle while the official is spending 8 hours at the office. The whole point of this exercise was to develop charging infrastructure to kick start the electric car revolution. The government needs to quickly come up with charging points at offices, multi level parking lots, malls and other important points like city centers and markets. Some can be paid like Rs 20 per hour and others can be free or subsidised.
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Old 4th July 2018, 17:47   #49
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Default Re: Govt officials refuse to use electric cars made by Mahindra & Tata Motors

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Originally Posted by Car's Paradise View Post
The range of 82 kms in real time condition is very low...
If we consider the battery pack capacity(on board power)of Nissan leaf to be 40Kwhr the ideal range of that car will be.... 222 kms range...

The range specified by Mahindra for an E20+ with a 11KWHr batery pack and a 26Hp motor is 110kms, which translates to 0.1 Kwhr/km(0.08 Kwhr/Km specified by Mahindra on its website) consumption.... Considering the above fact if the consumption of the EV's supplied to the government comes down to 0.13 Kwhr/Km from 0.21 Kwhr/Km, they can achieve a range of ... 130 kms
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Originally Posted by ashutoshb View Post
Babus: Thanks. But, I want more range. This won't do. I want Tesla range in 10 lakhs...

Babus: Do you think we care? Media, we don't want these cars. They are good for nothing...

Media: Babus reject the cars. Cars have range problems.

Tata/Mahindra: Beta, itne paise mein itna hi milega. (You'll get what you pay for, son)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Most of the points discussed here seems to be blaming the Govt. officials for their lack of sensitivity.... My question is,
1. Did the officer(s) who were supposed to get these vehicles, consulted?
2. Was their usage profile analysed?
3. Did their departments had any say in the final budget of the vehicle being purchased?
What I feel being omitted here is the total disconnect between the end-user and the procurement/purchase department. Let us not blame the officials totally before we understand their operational constraints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
A round trip can still be easily completed. Simply charge the vehicle while the official is spending 8 hours at the office. ... Some can be paid like Rs 20 per hour and others can be free or subsidised.
Cross-posting my own post in another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
[Source: BBC]

Quote:
Owners of Nissan's new electric Leaf say they were given misleading information about the car before buying it.

They say charging the Leaf can take three times longer than claimed on Nissan's website.

Others are unhappy that the range on a single charge is not as good as the 235 miles (378km) they were promised.

Nissan admitted that charging times can vary, but denied there was a problem or that any customers were misled.
...
...
They said they could charge in 40 to 60 minutes, so I believed them. But it's not true. The advertising is totally misleading."

When Mr Weatherley wrote to Nissan to complain, he was told that rapid charging was only intended for use once in a journey - something many buyers may be unaware of.
Quote:
Nissan said the original claim of 235 miles was correct under an official means of measurement known as the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC).

However, as carmakers have moved to a different measure - known as the Worldwide harmonised Light vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP) - the range is now officially 168 miles.
So, even the famed Nissan Leaf has range issues (though on a different scale). However, the key concern is the certified/ claimed range vs. the real driving range. From the BBC article quoted above, this becomes amply clear. The range of Leaf got reduced almost 30% when the testing method was changed from NEDC to WLTP. This is still not the real representative of actual driving condition, as it varies from driver to driver and location to location.

Now, Leaf is no low-tech or developmental EV and when it can suffer such a fate, its not hard to imagine the real driving range of products offered by Tata/ Mahindra, which claim max. range of around 130km.

That said, I am no way implying that Tata/ Mahindra made tall claims and then came short at the time of delivery. My opinion is in sync with questions raised by AlphaKilo; it seems a clear case of not capturing user requirements correctly by EESL etc.

Last edited by AutoNoob : 4th July 2018 at 18:14.
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Old 12th July 2018, 11:01   #50
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Default Re: Govt officials refuse to use electric cars made by Mahindra & Tata Motors

Saurabh Kumar, MD of EESL, echoes what the manufacturers have said on the issue.
  • So far no issue has been brought to our notice with regard to mileage or otherwise.
  • Most of the users of the 150 cars in the NCR are in the rank of joint secretary or above in the government.
  • These cars are certified by ARAI and the manufacturers have a reputation to maintain.
  • Manufacturer claimed mileage of any vehicle is arrived by using in standard test conditions and these results cannot be replicated in actual driving conditions.
  • The stated range of an electric vehicle is also based on standard test conditions.
  • 130km is the standard in case of these two cars (e-Verito and e-Tigor). If you drive as per the standard conditions you will get that. But these conditions are not there in city run and what you get is 10-15 per cent lower than the range claimed.
  • The 150 e-cars in the capital region have cumulatively clocked a distance of 700,000 kilometres as per the lease agreement of 80km per day per vehicle for 25 days a month.
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Old 12th July 2018, 18:26   #51
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Could a series hybrid (LPG/CNG/petrol) powered be a solution? It hits the sweet spot of low fuel consumption/emissions and good drivability without range anxiety.

Last edited by ampere : 12th July 2018 at 19:39. Reason: Removed dotted sections
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Old 1st August 2018, 08:32   #52
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Default Re: Govt officials refuse to use electric cars made by Mahindra & Tata Motors

Tata Motors may get notice over EV order.

Quote:
The people said Energy Efficiency Services Ltd (EESL), the state-run agency that is responsible for the procurement of the cars for government departments, had consulted the law ministry and the notice could be issued soon
Link

Last edited by volkman10 : 1st August 2018 at 08:33.
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Old 1st August 2018, 10:23   #53
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Default Re: Govt officials refuse to use electric cars made by Mahindra & Tata Motors

And what if Tata can demonstrate that in standard driving cycle, the car does 130 kms range? All the existing cars deliver fuel efficiency in city conditions which is no where close to the reported figures. Do they all receive similar notices?

Yes, 70-80 kms range is nothing to brag about but I am sure there would employees who would be doing less than 70 kms commute everyday. For them, this makes sense. EVs are and would remain horses for courses, aren't existing cars as well? Government officials in rural regions / mines are given Bolero and Scorpio, while those in cities get Ciaz / Zest etc. Imagine reversing that, would they not complain?
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