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Old 9th July 2019, 22:53   #121
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Default re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Just one query. You guys are doing all these calculations with respect to unit cost but isn't unit cost variable in cities. For example in Bangalore as you consume more units the price goes up considerable in slabs. If you can afford an EV like Kona then you probably have a 3BHK with AC, Fridge, Washing machine and other electronics and most likely already pay highest slab of charges.

A car which needs charging is going to increase this even more and would mean higher per km cost.

I am just thinking this out loud as till the infra is established you will be charging at home.

So in that case how much is the charging cost considering highest slab.

In Bangalore, many users would simply charge in office. Most office parking lots I've seen, offer free car charging points as a corporate way of projecting green values.
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Old 9th July 2019, 23:07   #122
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Default re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

Where road tax exemption is provided the money thus saved can be used to set up a solar plant on the roof if feasible.
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Old 9th July 2019, 23:33   #123
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Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
The interior space is very tight for average sized people too, saw the Autocar review on Youtube, it is very small. Why would one like to get squeezed inside a car after paying ₹26 lakhs. This car is best suited for short distance trips only.
I find almost all Hyundai cars smaller from inside than what their size suggests.
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Old 9th July 2019, 23:42   #124
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Default re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

Fantastic move by Hyundai to launch this car. While I don't think it is very expensive, it has the ability to change our perceptions of EVs. This car is probably going to sell a few 100 units for the year. The cost of EVs is going to be high. The infrastructure is going to take a while to develop. The government should promote PHEVs in the mean while. Imagine a Jazz hybrid giving 25 kmpl in the city.

This car is going to cause the same disruption which Tesla caused in the US market 6 years ago.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 9th July 2019 at 23:43.
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Old 9th July 2019, 23:58   #125
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Fantastic move by Hyundai to launch this car. While I don't think it is very expensive, it has the ability to change our perceptions of EVs. This car is probably going to sell a few 100 units for the year. The cost of EVs is going to be high. The infrastructure is going to take a while to develop. The government should promote PHEVs in the mean while. Imagine a Jazz hybrid giving 25 kmpl in the city.

This car is going to cause the same disruption which Tesla caused in the US market 6 years ago.
How can a few hundred units a year cause disruption?

I can compare this car with ecosport automatic, which is at 13L on road, and almost the same size. Since Kona has some additional features, add 2L more. So 15L on road. How on earth is a premium of 11 lakh justified just for being electric? Even if we had a fully developed charging infra, and charging was free everywhere, this still looks steep. Without it, it's almost insane.
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Old 10th July 2019, 02:36   #126
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Default re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Imagine a Jazz hybrid giving 25 kmpl in the city.
A Jazz diesel can do the same 25kmpl in a city without any complex batteries and motors. Hybrids in India doesn't make any sense as long as cheaper and simpler diesels are there. Its either fully electric or diesel!

For eg. It makes no sense to spend 10Lakhs over a Skoda Superb Diesel to get a Toyota Camry Hybrid and its suicidal if one considers a Honda Accord Hybrid at 45L!

I believe the time for Hybrids is already over even before its arrival in India. Hybrids were made because electric cars lacked range, but now electric cars have decent range, like the Kona with its 250 range, and overtime electric cars will become cheaper and better. For example Hyundai launches the Ioniq Electric in the UK in 2016 with a range of 150kms at a price of 25000GBP, today Hyundai sells the Kona EV with a range of 300kms at 24500GBP. So the price has decreased but the range has increased significantly
We should not go back to hybrids now. Lets move to electrics and further Hydrogen powered cars.

Last edited by Aditya_Bhp : 10th July 2019 at 02:40.
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Old 10th July 2019, 05:29   #127
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Default re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

Even with all the charging infrastructure, I am worried how the future of inter-city travel will be. When number of EVs significantly increase, what about the long ques at the charging points??
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Old 10th July 2019, 05:51   #128
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Default re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

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Originally Posted by pseudo_coder View Post
How can a few hundred units a year cause disruption?
I meant to say that this car will pave the way for future electric cars. If Toyota comes with an Yaris size EV sedan with a similar range at 14-16 lakhs, people will buy it in huge numbers. It has made EVs cooler- something Mahindra or Tata couldn't do with their cars.

Nobody ever thought large hatchbacks make sense in the Indian context 15 years ago. But look at the Jazz, i20 and Baleno today. The Jazz was the first one with true potential but was overpriced. Everybody who bought one love their car. After that, the i20 and Baleno took all the volumes in the coming years.
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Originally Posted by Aditya_Bhp View Post
A Jazz diesel can do the same 25kmpl
Try that in Bangalore's peak traffic.
Quote:
For eg. It makes no sense to spend 10Lakhs over a Skoda Superb Diesel to get a Toyota Camry Hybrid and its suicidal if one considers a Honda Accord Hybrid at 45L!
If BS6 + tax breaks brought that down to just 4 lakhs of extra spending, would you do it?

Added bonuses which could start applying:
1. No tolls on highways for first 3 years from the date of registration
2. 15 kmpl in City
3. Quieter cabin
4. Potential higher resale value after 10 years

The reason I say hybrids make a lot of sense in the Indian context is due to our smaller engines and irregular traffic patterns. If the car could run for 10-15 km in electricity for speeds under 30 kmph, I think there'll be a sizeable reduction in fuel consumption. Our market is a price sensitive one. If the regular Alto costs INR 5 lakh, you can't sell an EV version for 10 lakh. But you can surely sell the hybrid one for 7 lakh.

Our final goal is EVs, but Hybrids are the interim.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 10th July 2019 at 05:54.
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Old 10th July 2019, 06:14   #129
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Default re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Our final goal is EVs, but Hybrids are the interim.

That's my opinion too. We should have encouraged Plug-in hybrids too along with the EV push. That would have helped in altering user behaviour a little more easier than switching from ICE to EV directly. Knowing that there is an alternate mode of propulsion for your vehicle is a comforting factor.

I personally will not be comfortable driving around in an EV unless I can swap the battery as easily as I get refueled today.
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Old 10th July 2019, 08:35   #130
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Default re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
If the regular Alto costs INR 5 lakh, you can't sell an EV version for 10 lakh. But you can surely sell the hybrid one for 7 lakh.

Our final goal is EVs, but Hybrids are the interim.

I am not sure if that works cost wise. If ICE costs 5 lakh and and electric only costs 10 lakhs , how can the hybrid cost lesser than electric only one ? Take any plug in hybrid like BMW i3 , the range extender always costs more than electric only version. It is much more complicated to design a plug in hybrid and robs manufacturer of space which could otherwise be used by batteries. Do we have a plug in hybrid car which costs less than the electric only version of the car ?
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Old 10th July 2019, 08:59   #131
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Default Re: Hyundai Kona electric SUV spied testing in India. Edit: Launched @ 25.3L

I'm shocked, if not, a little amused at how finicky things have gotten, to a point where one does not see each product as its own unique packaging, but instead sees what it lacks.

If this were a BMW/Audi, this very product would be priced 2x easily, spec for spec. Like it or not, the Kona is a compelling buy as far as pure, electric cars go, in India. Way better value than the 2 seater Reva which costed about 7 lakhs 3-4 years ago. In terms of torque, quietness and efficiency (technical efficiency), a pure electric has everything else beat by miles.

And, no, electric cars for the time being aren't ecological, neither cost-effective.. they are merely a path towards the future. When we take into consideration the monetary costs of initial acquisition, that charging power is sourced from coal plants and also that each car when assembled carries a carbon footprint of 12-17 tonnes of CO2/other emissions and also that a car electric battery has 46% of its projected harmful emissions, out before it even leaves the factory, cumulatively it results in a lot of legends/myths shattered.

As a product in its own right though, the Kona is nothing but a path-breaker, just like they've done before for India with the first super-hatch, the first 6 airbag vehicle etc., Hyundai has opened another portal which others will follow in due course.

If copious space, value, initial purchase costs are factors that matter, then this is absolutely the last car one should look at. Electric cars are no saints when it comes to environment, either.
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Old 10th July 2019, 09:27   #132
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Default Re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

Can someone throw some light on the real cost of owning this.

I have read that EVs will cost much lesser in terms on running cost for electricity being cheap and also on maintenance as expensive consumables like engine oil not needed.

In light of these, what will be approximate per km running cost and annual maintenance expenses, assuming congested city road conditions where a petrol sedan barely manages 15 kmpl and costs at least 12-15K per year for consumables and basic service.

Further, what is the expected service life of this kind of vehicle in terms of years and mileage?

Last edited by sen2009 : 10th July 2019 at 09:28.
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Old 10th July 2019, 09:53   #133
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Default Re: Hyundai Kona electric SUV spied testing in India. Edit: Launched @ 25.3L

[quote=dark.knight;4618283]
Very aptly put. Unless we come up with a cleaner way to generate electricity and batteries, EVs can be termed only "Zero tail pipe emissions" which is good for the local environmental conditions but not exactly eco-friendly.
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Old 10th July 2019, 10:00   #134
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Default Re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

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Originally Posted by sen2009 View Post
Can someone throw some light on the real cost of owning this.

In light of these, what will be approximate per km running cost and annual maintenance expenses, assuming congested city road conditions where a petrol sedan barely manages 15 kmpl and costs at least 12-15K per year for consumables and basic service.

Further, what is the expected service life of this kind of vehicle in terms of years and mileage?
Note: Ignore ARAI range of 452 KMs. ARAI method probably worst in range calculation and its even worse than NEDC method which used in China and EU previously. EU is now using WLTP which is much better.

Calculating running costs for EVs is very easy. Here is the comparison for Kona EV vs Honda City petrol:

Kona EV: It has 39.2 kWh battery. kWh is the electricity unit that we get on our home electricity bills. So to fully charge this Kona EV it requires ~40 units of electricity. Cost of electricity depends where you live. For Bangalore its Rs 7.8 at highest slab. Assuming its Rs 8 per unit, it costs Rs 320 for full charge.

Actual range of Kona is closer to 250 KMs. So it costs Rs 320 for 250 KMs distance. EVs range degradation will be much less in cities compared to petrol/diesel vehicles. Highway speeds (120KM+) range degradation will be much higher for EVs though. But those speeds are not legal in our highways anyway.

Honda City: To travel 250 KMs in city conditions assuming your 15 kmpl it needs 16.66 liters and ~Rs 1250. I own Honda City and my average mileage in city is ~11 kmpl. At that mileage, it costs Rs 1700 for 250KMs.

As Hyundai mentioned in their website, charging costs will be 1/5th of fuel costs. Maintenance, service costs also will be very less. But still the initial purchase costs are too high to make economic sense at this point. Hopefully, with more competition, economies of scale and battery price declines we will see compelling EVs at lesser prices (~Rs 15 lakhs) in next 3-4 years.
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Old 10th July 2019, 10:10   #135
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Default Re: The Hyundai Kona electric SUV, now launched @ 25.3 lakhs

While the Kona's price is not impressive, it certainly doesn't disappoint. Even Tata and Mahindra have priced their EVs (Tigor and Verito) at 10 lakhs when the respective petrol-powered versions cost 50-60% of that. Similarly, all-electric Hyundai Kona at 25 lakhs (which is much more liveable with 200+ km range) isn't that bad considering a petrol-powered version wouldn't have costed less than 12 lakhs.

End of the day it is not a volumes product for Hyundai. Till some direct competitor enters the scene, they have the liberty to play around with price. What cheaper option do we have anyway for a compact electric SUV?
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