[Turrrb0]

Originally Posted by Zappex

Firstly, I am not forcing them to remove anything. If anything they are forcing my hand. Insurance quotes offered by them are at least ₹30k more expensive then what is available in the market. Handling charges amount to another ₹15k and some basic mats and mudflaps are adding about ₹5k.

I have purchased eight Tata cars over the years and the last one being a Nexon AMT (Diesel)

These have been my basic terms, apart from any other discount they may offer.

I agree that such experiences disturb peace of mine. But the dealer needs to treat all customers alike. Especially when one is buying an EV against the market trend.

That does not justify being pushed around and paying upwards of ₹50k extra. I have not asked for any discount, what I disagree with is such practices where the dealer squeezes the customer, thinking that he does not have a choice.

Of course, I'm not passing any judgement on what you've done, nor am I saying that it's wrong. I just tried to explain what their POV might be for them to behave with you the way they did.

[shawshank]

Originally Posted by Zappex

Firstly, I am not forcing them to remove anything. If anything they are forcing my hand. Insurance quotes offered by them are at least ₹30k more expensive then what is available in the market. Handling charges amount to another ₹15k and some basic mats and mudflaps are adding about ₹5k.

These have been my basic terms, apart from any other discount they may offer.

That does not justify being pushed around and paying upwards of ₹50k extra. I have not asked for any discount, what I disagree with is such practices where the dealer squeezes the customer, thinking that he does not have a choice.

Why do dealers insist on handling charges when it's been deemed illegal even by courts?
https://www.rushlane.com/consumer-co...-12256387.html
https://www.rushlane.com/handling-ch...-12198482.html


While I personally have no stamina to squeeze every rupee from a deal, TaMo has thankfully published the prices of various Nexon EV models and with various govt incentives we know the OTR ball-park price.



Is it a buyer's problem to ensure the dealer's profit in buying items like insurance, if/when they're available cheaper elsewhere ?

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by Sreejith V

Looking at the size of the fast charger, I have a blunder question. If this is the complete set of a unit, the size of it seems to be just around 20ltr by volume and the input is a 3 Phase connection of 50A. Why this cannot be part of the EV Vehicle, so that the vehicle will have a fast charger inbuilt and we need only a 3 Phase, 50A connection? Whether there is a technical limitation or is it that the cost of this setup is in multiple lakhs?

answering it from a logical point of view, 3 phase and higher amperage is required for AC fast charging and DC, the car can accept multiple source of current, right from 15A 220v to high voltage DC. You can't accommodate all of them in the car, and you move it. Think of it like the phone charger, the phone accepts USB cable from charger, from USB socket on a car or PC. The logic of converting the input is on the charger itself not on the car.

[hkollar]

Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000

I see there is a difference of 1L between XZ+ and XZ+ LUX, and the LUX variant only offers leather seats, sunroof and auto wipers/headlights. XZ+ is a fully loaded variant, I do not see any value with sunroof in India.

In my personal opinion XZ+ is the most VFM variant. It has everything you need. Maybe seat covers from Tata official accessories or aftermarket should do the trick, it would hardly cost you extra 10-15k. You can save interest on that 1L amount of you are taking back loan and your EMI will be less. This will be huge savings which you can invest in other accessories.

I fully agree with you. In fact, I had booked a LUX variant initially, but told Dealer rep I will change it to XZ+, as except for leather seats, I don't want other features, and leather seats we can always get after-market, as this is standard Nexon seats.

The only accessory I'd want on this is a 3D Decal lettering that says "E L E C T R I C" and perhaps some paint protection for doors.

[pogo0120]

Originally Posted by Sreejith V

Why this cannot be part of the EV Vehicle, so that the vehicle will have a fast charger inbuilt and we need only a 3 Phase, 50A connection? Whether there is a technical limitation or is it that the cost of this setup is in multiple lakhs?

Technical limitation. It is not just the fast charge but the 3 phase power you need. Yes you can put them in the car. But now the question is, where will you find the 3 phase connection? Most of the electricity given to home is single phase. But for three phase, you will need to calculate load on the transformer, i.e, your load and probably have an extra transformer at some situations. This is why for lift facility at homes, you need separate connection, i.e 3 phase and electrical company takes time to plan. It is not just that the Phase is three than the single, but 3 phase means heavier load.


This brings to another important topic.

We have a sitting time bomb here, No one has looked or looking into. Electric vehicles.

Why I call it a bomb, is because from load point of view. You see, if some one is charging a electric car at 3KW load, then that car is consuming on an average, electricity consumption of 5 houses. Assuming 600Watts, typical usage for a house.

If a car is charging at 7KW, then the car is drawing power of 11 houses.

If in your locality, typical Bangalore comparison, if the road has 20 houses and all 20 houses have electric cars charging at 7KW, then 20 houses are drawing power of 20X11 = 220 houses. If these houses have water pumps, air conditioners and some are luxury houses with lifts, then we will have severe problem with loading.

Electricity, say is consumed at Vijayanagar in Bangalore. But that electricity comes from RTPS or BTPS, which is at Raichur or Bellary, around 300, 400 KMs away from Bangalore.

You see, all transformers from your house to sub station all the way to MRS (main receiving station) need to be load balanced.

This is a load bomb. Time is ticking. No one is looking into it. In California, the local electric company has anticipated electric car phenomenon and has taken good number of measures like increasing transformer capacity, load balancing, peak power demand management etc. California has one more problem. Solar cells!! On a peak sunny day, many houses, malls generate enough electricity and take less power from the grid. However on a cloudy day, every one demands more power. So, the Load Low and Load High (max) is quite a gap compared to local discoms in India where we offer cheaper electricity to industry after 10PM to morning, to encourage load balancing. Also, India does not have peaker plants, which generate power in short notice if the electricity demand is too high.

But India has one solution all the time used. Load shedding!!!

[ohaak]

Originally Posted by pogo0120

If a car is charging at 7KW, then the car is drawing power of 11 houses.

This is incorrect. Look at your electricity bill. On the top right you will see something called "sanctioned load". That is the maximum you are allowed to draw from your meter box. You will need to apply to the electricity distributor to allocate higher load to you or provide you a new line if consumption is going to be higher than allocated.

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by pogo0120

But India has one solution all the time used. Load shedding!!!

Haha, that's easiest way to balance loads.

Rightly said, India needs to ramp up and prepare the power generation, and electricity distribution networks to take EVs load, just installing multiple chargers across various locations isn't enough.

Rapid adoption of EVs won't yet work for India.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by ohaak

This is incorrect. Look at your electricity bill. On the top right you will see something called "sanctioned load". That is the maximum you are allowed to draw from your meter box. You will need to apply to the electricity distributor to allocate higher load to you or provide you a new line if consumption is going to be higher than allocated.

No state in India sanctions more then 7kw per phase, so max you can ever get per house is 3 phase x 7kw (21kw). If you do go higher then that you need to get a transformer to your house and draw power from a 11kv line.

Even to get the 7kw of full power you need to pay additionally for sanction load.

Again what pogo0120 says is correct if all house starts drawing a new load of 7kw then the grid will collapse. They will have to upgrade each and every feeder transformer and finally even the substation transformer.

[pogo0120]

Originally Posted by ohaak

This is incorrect. Look at your electricity bill..

Out of technical curiosity, why it is incorrect?

Avg house consumption is 500 to 600 watts city limits and in villages in Karnataka, it was termed one 60w bulb or one tubelight and two more lights. Of course, no water pumps!

Even in the duplex house I live in Bangalore, TV takes around 60 Watts, followed by 15W LED lights around 10 of them, if I turn all at once, and a fridge connected to 5A regular socket, 1/2 hp motor.

If fridge or Mixer is not turned on, then my consumption is around 200 Watts Max, and If fridge is turned on, around 600+Watts.

On the other hand 7KW charger will take up 7KW of load.

Regarding sanctioned load, it is the peak power you can consume. But not the average power consumption of a house at any time.

If you add all sanctioned load of all houses, you will find that total sanctioned load is more than the capacity of the transformer. I know this because we used interact with KEB electricity people who would tell the workings of power distribution.

Industrial sanctioned load is different.

I still did not get why my calculations are incorrect.

[DarthVeda]

I am guessing he meant that your assumption that electricity assumes only 600w average consumption to calculate their planning needs is incorrect. They will look at sanctioned load and calculate the transformers and other needs. If you cross the sanction load consistently, as in drawing 3KW when you are sanctioned 2KW, they will levy a penalty on you and charge a deposit in your next month, and increase your sanctioned load to new one. The minute your sanctioned load goes to 3KW, the base price of your bill increases regardless of your consumption.

[salbin]

Originally Posted by pogo0120

Out of technical curiosity, why it is incorrect?

Avg house consumption is 500 to 600 watts city limits and in villages in Karnataka, it was termed one 60w bulb or one tubelight and two more lights. Of course, no water pumps!

Even in the duplex house I live in Bangalore, TV takes around 60 Watts, followed by 15W LED lights around 10 of them, if I turn all at once, and a fridge connected to 5A regular socket, 1/2 hp motor.

Dont know why everyone is talking about 7Kw charger and coming with lot of calculations - Nexon charger is only 3.3Kw! May be equivalent to an instant water heater.

Quoting from mohanphadnis's post:
"Nexon's onboard charger is only 3.3kW, so even if you install a charger that gives 7.2kW, the car will charge at only 3.3. CCS standard has inbuilt communication, which will let the charger know the max power that is acceptable for the car and the charger will only feed the power at that level."

BTW MG ZS home charger is 7.4Kw.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by Kishen.padiyar

Thank you. Now I am curious about the first one on your list

I have sent a PM to you. Check it to know the funniest post I have ever encountered on team-bhp.

[mohanphadnis]

Originally Posted by Sreejith V

Looking at the size of the fast charger, I have a blunder question. If this is the complete set of a unit, the size of it seems to be just around 20ltr by volume and the input is a 3 Phase connection of 50A. Why this cannot be part of the EV Vehicle, so that the vehicle will have a fast charger inbuilt and we need only a 3 Phase, 50A connection?

Renault Zoe does come with a 22kW onboard charger, that is 3 phase 32 Amp 220V. I believe that is the limit of CCS type 2 AC fast charging.

[ohaak]

I don't think we are looking at a time bomb. I see it as little more than operational details that will be addressed as we make progress in consumption of electricity.

If you look at India's power generation, we are closing in on overall deficiency both peak and median. (https://powermin.nic.in/en/content/p...ance-all-india). Like DarthVeda said, planning will be by sanctioned load irrespective of consumption. In Pune, I see that they are systematically upgrading the transformers to higher capacity. Villages are a challenge and that problem will be solved as time progresses. We are at the threshold of excess production in a few years going by overall India trend show at power ministry website. The rapid capacity addition by solar power is helping bridge the gap quickly.

[shawshank]

Got this price list from one of the Chennai dealers today - had naively assumed OTR price will be 1L more than ex-showroom price, OTR comes ~2L more.
Talked with another TaMo representative who kept saying the prices will be increased in Feb, current advertised prices are just introductory, and was pressing me to pre-book with Rs.21K by tonight.