[hkollar]

Originally Posted by nasa_hubble

The Nexon EV has 8 year warranty and on the other hand Kona comes with 3 year warranty which is not really confidence inspiring for an Hyundai EV at this stage.

This round goes to Tata.

3Year warranty is on the whole car and roadside assistance. Hyundai also gives 8 year warranty on battery and motor.

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

Also, correct me if I am wrong, e20 does not have liquid cooling while Nexon has the liquid cooling which should improve the battery life and range over the years.

The main reason for Nissan Leaf to have range degradation is it is passively cooled.

Air cooling need not degrade the battery faster. It is the charging current and heat produced that needs to be managed. E2O did not have high current fast charging, thus the risk of overheating was minimised.

E2O also used a different type of Lithium-Ion cell that had the problem of energy leakage when idling. The ones used in Kona/Nexon apparently don't have that issue.

Overall, I am sure the newer generation Lithium-Ions are even better and will last longer.

Just an aside - I have an iPod from 2004, running fine after 16yrs with it's lithium-ion still charging and working!

Originally Posted by CarJunki

Based on what real world numbers have been reported on range, Kona seems more mature and better product to me.
Also that Kona is available with same battery in other countries, i feel more secure about the package overall.

Both Tata and MG have to really prove real world range.

Kona indeed is more mature product, has many features. Especially on the charging side. But, it also comes at a high cost. Most of that cost has to do with the import duty paid to govt.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

8 years warranty on motor is not a big thing and neither is 8years warranty on battery without terms and conditions of battery degradation. If you buy a Nexon EV today and after 5 years you are left with 50% charge. If the manufacturer denies warranty claim as it still moves for 125kms on a single charge and their warranty change condition is if it's fully dead then there is no use at all.

Good point. Got to check the fine print.

[yogeshsom29]

Hat's off to TATA, this is hitting ball out of the park along with their all existing winning moments in safety of other cars.

While the range anxiety & degrading battery are fair concerns, but as the tech become more mainstream, the price of owning & maintaining one will gradually go down & that includes the battery swap as & when it happens.

[wheelguy]

So much of unceasing negativity around anything TML.

Talking about battery degradation, Kona EV isn't a decades old proven product, it was launched in year 2018, and two years is too little a time to talk about battery degradation.

And I say it again, the topic of battery degradation is appearing only on this thread, while Kona and eZS threads get away without such heavy discussions. Why such tendencies which look for every opportunity to downplay Tata? Why not a fair play.

Hyundai of yesteryears is also known for its nigglesome and unreliable products.

Tata may be nigglesome in the past, they are not the same now, though still they are not perfect and there is a lot to be improved, they have come a long way, get over it and leave it.

Note, I am not saying that Tata is near perfect, there still can be issues in current gen products for the present owners, I am saying that they are improving and that can be seen. Also note that none of the automotive companies of all that exist in India are providing 100% niggle-free products or 100% hassle free services.

People kept bashing Tata relentlessly, they are improving over time.

People kept pricing Honda for its quality time and again, but they are reducing the quality of their products from generation to generation. Latest generation City is not of the same quality as it used to be in previous generation.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

If you notice my post I mentioned MG and Tata but not Hyundai with the Kona cause the Kona is a mainstream EV sold with the same powertrain in multiple vehicles as well as shared with Kia.

Don't quite understand how using same powertrain ( I assume you mean battery pack by powertrain) across more vehicles results in no battery degradation. It would help if you elaborate please. Kona EV is only 18 months or so old so we don't know about its battery degradation either. We will know 5 years down the road. Is Kona using a brand of battery which doesn't degrade at all?

Originally Posted by wheelguy

People kept pricing Honda for its quality time and again, but they are reducing the quality of their products from generation to generation. Latest generation City is not of the same quality as it used to be in previous generation.

You have summed up pretty well. That seems to be the thing here. Why battery degradation or any other negative stuff is not brought up in Kona or MG EVs is beyond my comprehension. It is one thing to experience firsthand and quite another to presume. Let all 3 EVs complete 5 years, and let's then examine the state we find them in and then conclude one way or the other.

BTW, if you are in the know, could you please mention which brand of batteries these 3 EVs use?

[coolkurt]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

BTW, if you are in the know, could you please mention which brand of batteries these 3 EVs use?

Nexon EV - Tata Chem ( They have some sort of tieup with LG Chem)
Kona - LG Chem
ZS EV - CATL

[hkollar]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

Talking about battery degradation, Kona EV isn't a decades old proven product, it was launched in year 2018, and two years is too little a time to talk about battery degradation.

1.The reason Nexon is receiving more scrutiny is because it is the more realistically priced. Kona is not even in the same ball park. Most people wouldn't realistically consider buying a 25L EV (a new tech product). But at <15Lakhs atleast 2nd car buyers can be tempted to consider Nexon. People who don't do long drives are well served by 150-200km range. And people realize EV driving is way superior to anything else.

In that sense - it is a compliment that people are seriously discussing the Tata Product, even if it is by way of expressing their fears.

2. 2 years is not too little time in EV space. It gives sufficient time for a manufacturer to see the real-world problem and fix them. Even the battery related issues can start surfacing in 2yrs, as original nissan leaf experienced.

I am skeptical of both Tata & Mahindra, not because they aren't improving. But, because their attention to detail is still not enough.

For eg: I own the E2O, and have two problems that have nothing to do with EV-drive train. First one is the passenger side door lock, that gets jammed frequently, and we struggle to get in or out. In past 2 years have complained to Mahindra technician multiple times, but they can't find & fix the problem.

Second is the roof of E2O developed some minor crack and in rains water leakage occured. It being a fiber body, they told me they can't repair it, but they can only replace. But, they don't get only the top roof panel for replacement and demanded 96k for replacing all panels. Think of that. I got a vinyl wrap done for the car in same color, that sealed the crack, solved the problem - all in Rs.2,500.

And I was an earlier buyer of Tata and had enough of such problems.

These kind of niggles and problems do not give a good impression of the company. One doesn't buy a car to live with niggling issues.

One can't be faulted for looking for peace of mind.

Having said that, I agree Tatas have improved tremendously over years, and Nexon is a wonderful product, that is at a stupefying price.

[Theyota]

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

For all you know; even if you give it free, there won't be much takers with charging infrastructure in it's infancy, it may not cut it with the crowd. What's the point in having a car which can't be 'filled/charged' with ease? Thank you, but no thank you for now. Low starting price is a 'discount' Tata is giving for all the 'niggles' for the early adopters?? Considering that money can get you a Honda City!!

This post gives reinforcement to my thoughts that we humans in general are a bickering, complaining, whining pack. No matter what, we will find reasons to complain.



How can you compare a cheap Honda City against an electric vehicle that is a real car? Honda city is a budget entry level car for the majority of the car owning world.

[Durango Dude]

Seen in isolation and in comparison to other EV's around Nexon EV may be VFM, but you dial in other products that can be had for the same money, then it doesn't appear VFM. Unless someone twists my arm I'm not going to spend money on an EV in the near future. We all know what the Tigor EV was and we all know that the Govt agencies that plonked money on this aren't using it much due to range and performance. With the penchant for Tata to unleash products with rough edges on the public is very well known, latest being the Harrier: It looks "more than a million dollars" (I was following one this morning and couldn't help but ogle at the Harrier derriere) but the number of niggles is a real put off.

[ohaak]

Does anyone have an idea of the subscription model? What it will have commercial registration plates? That will be a nuisance value in cantonment areas in Pune where there is a toll for commercial vehicles. Self drive rental cars suffer from those tolls.

[Theyota]

As things stand today, electric car is only for people who have disposable income and need for a second car. A very small number of people also buy it as their primary car due to their sense of responsibility for the nature, novelty factory and interest in technology, etc. Overtime, more and more people would want to contribute their miniscule part to develop technology, reducing carbon footprint, progress of their country and what not. So slowly even the only car in the family can be an electric car especially for the big city dwellers. Companies are investing billions in electric cars because they clearly see a writing on the wall that future of mobility is heading towards electric mobility. No one is making money in making electric cars right now, but if they do not invest now they will all be obsolete few years down the lane. Everyone with basic of knowledge of IC engine industry would tell you what the industry has gone through in the last 3 years.

[ottocycle]

Originally Posted by ohaak

Does anyone have an idea of the subscription model? What it will have commercial registration plates? That will be a nuisance value in cantonment areas in Pune where there is a toll for commercial vehicles. Self drive rental cars suffer from those tolls.

I think it might be similar to car lease (orix, lease plan) that is provided by many firm to their employees. They normally have white plate.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Don't quite understand how using same powertrain ( I assume you mean battery pack by powertrain) across more vehicles results in no battery degradation. It would help if you elaborate please. Kona EV is only 18 months or so old so we don't know about its battery degradation either. We will know 5 years down the road. Is Kona using a brand of battery which doesn't degrade at all?

The Kona power train is shared with the Kia E-niro and the Ioniq (slightly different).

Yes both were launched in 2018 but both these cars have received all the certifications and met all criteria of EV norms in USA and Europe. The Kona EV is an international car that has won many awards.

We do need to wait for 5 years to see long term but it's safe to say the number of Kona's sold gives more confidence in favour of Hyundai vs Tata and MG.

The carwow youtube video link above showed the Kia E-niro delivered 91% of advertised range and came in 2nd after the Tesla Model3.

I have more confident on the battery tech and degradation of the Kona vs the MG and Tata as of now. I would love to be proven wrong after 5 years and see Tata/MG have lower degradation than Hyundai.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/22...ery-contracts/

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hyun...dai-kona-1-6t/

[lazy]

Awesome Tata, way to go. Lovely product, and lovely pricing.
This product and pricing + the State Tax benefits for EVs, is surely going to tempt even non-EV aficionados to give a good hard look to this offering.

So far, the only EV within reach for most buyers was the E2O but that is an impractical car for most family use cases, esp single car households. Kona is too expensive.
Tata brings EV right inside a regular sedan and pseudo SUV price range which is a big product costing achievement, I'd say.

I wish this car does well for Tata, they have been trying really hard since past few years (except their stupid Product Marketing folks who are smoking some strong stuff).

To the haters, well, what can one say, this is a free market, so keep buying your tincans with pretty touchscreens. And about brand name - what extra prestige does a foreign name offers over a Tata/Mahindra when one's spending power is <25L anyway.
Not to mention the feeling when one purchases a new Nokia phone going by that brand name, and later realize Nokia isn't that Nokia anymore.

Overall, am loving it.

cheers
lazy

[SpideyBoy]

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

Seen in isolation and in comparison to other EV's around Nexon EV may be VFM, but you dial in other products that can be had for the same money, then it doesn't appear VFM.

I cannot fathom your logic behind this, we are trying to compare to other EVs obviously and isn't that how you consider it VFM? Else it's simply comparing oranges and apples.

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

With the penchant for Tata to unleash products with rough edges on the public is very well known, latest being the Harrier: It looks "more than a million dollars" (I was following one this morning and couldn't help but ogle at the Harrier derriere) but the number of niggles is a real put off.

I believe this topic has been beaten to death in all Tata threads, let's first look at the product closely if possible test drive it before we come to a blind conclusion. We all know first batch of Harriers had a few niggles and Tata immediately fixed many of them and owners are happy with the next batches. I hope you read those reports too. We are in a transition phase from ICE to EVs for the better cause of the environment and when a local manufacturer who has the right principles of passenger safety, is trying to land foot in the right direction it would be nice to recognize their efforts instead of bashing even without looking at their product. I will rest my case here.

[nasa_hubble]

Originally Posted by hkollar

3Year warranty is on the whole car and roadside assistance. Hyundai also gives 8 year warranty on battery and motor.

Point noted. Happy to be corrected.

Still there is no reason to assume the T&C of Tata's warranty and the battery performance will be worse or inferior than that of Hyundai.