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Old 3rd October 2019, 14:41   #31
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Default Re: ZipTron: Tata Motors' new EV technology brand

Now the price is not someone looking for a primary car can buy. Will a person buy it for a an additional city run car ? Still pricey.

I am looking for a small automatic petrol to drive in the city. My wife already has a costlier hatchback It has to be about 5-6 lakh range. Now there could be some premium for an electric. But still not sure who the cars will address.

Most of my friends in US have Teslas, But its their 3rd or 4th car!

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Old 3rd October 2019, 21:33   #32
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Default Re: ZipTron: Tata Motors' new EV technology brand

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Now the price is not someone looking for a primary car can buy. Will a person buy it for a an additional city run car ? Still pricey.

I am looking for a small automatic petrol to drive in the city. My wife already has a costlier hatchback It has to be about 5-6 lakh range. Now there could be some premium for an electric. But still not sure who the cars will address.

Most of my friends in US have Teslas, But its their 3rd or 4th car!
Wrong about Tesla. Many people have it as their 1st car and most as their second car. Tesla's are becoming main stream. I dont need a new car now. But when ever I need one, it would be a Tesla.
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Old 3rd October 2019, 21:48   #33
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
Wrong about Tesla. Many people have it as their 1st car and most as their second car. Tesla's are becoming main stream. I dont need a new car now. But when ever I need one, it would be a Tesla.
I know I am right about what I said There are always exceptions.

The average age for a Tesla owner is 46 years. So I dont know if it can be 1st car or only car for big majority (if they sell all their other cars). At upwards of 80K dollars, it cant become mainstream. Close to 30% of owners are in California too !

Last edited by srishiva : 3rd October 2019 at 21:49.
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Old 3rd October 2019, 22:14   #34
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Default Re: ZipTron: Tata Motors' new EV technology brand

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
I know I am right about what I said There are always exceptions.

The average age for a Tesla owner is 46 years. So I dont know if it can be 1st car or only car for big majority (if they sell all their other cars). At upwards of 80K dollars, it cant become mainstream. Close to 30% of owners are in California too !
Tesla Model 3 is 30k dollars. Which is a lot more affordable. So the millennials can get their hands on it. Or already are.
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Old 5th October 2019, 11:39   #35
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Default Re: ZipTron: Tata Motors' new EV technology brand

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Tesla Model 3 is 30k dollars. Which is a lot more affordable. So the millennials can get their hands on it. Or already are.
Looks like the Model 3 is priced from $35,000 to $59.900. Source https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/

There's also this article from C&D dated Aug 2019
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...-price-change/ which states that the base price is over $36,000.

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Old 5th October 2019, 13:40   #36
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Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift View Post
Looks like the Model 3 is priced from $35,000 to $59.900. Source https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/

There's also this article from C&D dated Aug 2019
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...-price-change/ which states that the base price is over $36,000.

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Typical Model 3 costs about $45,000. Tesla discontinued $35K version.
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Old 15th October 2019, 00:41   #37
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Default Re: ZipTron: Tata Motors' new EV technology brand

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Now the price is not someone looking for a primary car can buy. Will a person buy it for a an additional city run car ? Still pricey.

I am looking for a small automatic petrol to drive in the city. My wife already has a costlier hatchback It has to be about 5-6 lakh range. Now there could be some premium for an electric. But still not sure who the cars will address.

Most of my friends in US have Teslas, But its their 3rd or 4th car!
You're right, in India the sticker-price-shock is something most manufacturers are going to find a hard time solving. The US is a comparatively not-so-price-sensitive car market, and hence the massive success that Tesla seems to enjoy. Even so, they had to trickle down to the Model 3 from the pricier Model S and X which served as the guinea pigs for iterative technology development their high prices was what enabled Tesla to pump more money into R&D to come up with the reduced-cost Model 3. Unfortunately, at the 5-6 lakh price point, EVs still aren't there - batteries still cost what they cost, and to make a compelling family car (and not a Reva), with the associated structural safety and technology features, its going to cost more. So I guess just like Tesla's product strategy, Indian manufacturers will also have to experiment with a trickle down of EV technology starting with the likes of the 25-30 lakh Hyundai Kona or a 17 lakh Nexon.

In general, I think the only way forward is a big mindset leap - that of "total cost of ownership". Petrol in the USA costs less than in India, and yet the TCO for a $35k Model 3 is comparable to a $25k Toyota Camry or Honda Accord over a 5-year period (Link). Of course service costs are higher in the USA, but petrol / diesel is definitely more expensive per litre. Maybe a TCO-based marketing narrative is what manufacturers will have to push (if they want to push EVs, mind you).

I think this chart from the above linked article sums it up pretty well (of course the tax incentive has now run out, and the MidRange no longer exists, but the Model 3 prices reduced considerably over the last few months to compensate for the tax rebate reduction, so I'd imagine the TCO argument still holds up):
ZipTron: Tata Motors' new EV technology brand-teslamodel3longrangeshortrangetcosheettable.png

These cars are some of the most common sedans in the US market. Similarly, if Tata or Hyundai can market TCO based on a comparative analysis with a little-bit lower priced petrol/diesel vehicle (such as Creta vs Kona for example), I think it could still make sense to splurge a little bit more for the EV. Only bottleneck I see is charging infrastructure. But for a large majority, for a large percentage of the use-case, EVs will still be usable in India.




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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
...

Just out of curiosity, what happens if one fails in such cases? (Not sure if ZipTron is 2 motor, but just curious.) Does it mean the vehicle simply stops and goes into limp mode? Or it will have a considerable torque steer with only 1 side peddling? (Remember - Ross scaring Monica telling Ben is running in circles )
I think you're assuming it to be a one-motor-at-each-wheel layout - that's very rare to see in practice, only mass-market EVs I can think of with this motor layout (what's known as a In-hub motor or a wheel-hub motor) are the Rivian R1T pickup truck and R1S SUV.

For reducing costs and complexity and for vehicle dynamics (what with increased unsprung masses which I will not bore you with), Tata will do what most of the industry does - motor in the center of the axle with a regular differential sending torque via regular half-shafts at both the driven wheels, just like any regular IC engine vehicle. Dual Motor setups like Tesla's Dual Motor cars just have a motor at both the front and the rear axle, transmitting power to the wheels through a differential.


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Originally Posted by hkollar View Post
Typical Model 3 costs about $45,000. Tesla discontinued $35K version.
Nope, the standard range is still available for order as an off-menu order (you call the nearest Tesla Store and place your order via phone / visit them). It's just that financial prudence pushes them to incentivize the higher-priced and larger-profit-margin Long Range versions. The same reason why they had the Long Range RWD also pushed off the website configurator and available as an off-menu item before taking it off entirely for a while.

That said, the $39k Standard Range plus offers excellent value for money, and is being sold in large numbers nowadays (will have to read the latest earnings report to confirm but I'm just going by posts on various forums and Facebook groups that I'm a part of). Again there's a huge pressure on Tesla from the stock markets to disincentivize sales of the Standard Range and Standard Range plus, as they have lower profit margins.



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Originally Posted by chittybang View Post
Could someone explain what is different in the Ziptron technology from other EV's in the market?

I always thought that just like most of our brands had smartly grabbed the FIAT national engine when diesels were a rage the same brands would identify an affordable solution for EV and go for it instead of coming up with their own technology. Obviously in the following years some would introduce their own versions.

With TATA zipping by with this technology I am curious if there is something unique in their approach or is it the same as the ones used by the biggies in EV? The amount of promotion they did made me feel they have come up with a novel solution. So what's the real deal?
It essentially looks like the same type of architecture used by most EVs, although the claim is to support both the Tesla-style "Skate-board" architecture, as well as the Chevy Bolt-style T-shape architecture for the batteries (shown in the pictures). The real deal, like one of the other members said, is in the Battery Management System software. Optimizing the voltages of each individual cell in the battery pack, while maintaining temperatures of each individual cells in optimum range, will lead to better performance and longevity. The company that can crack this software optimization wins, for the most part. Also, the inverters that drive the motors are fed by some software that feeds them a current "waveform". Giving out the right type of waveform at the right instance is also critical software magic that has already been solved for AC motors by many companies, but the Model 3 was the first one to have it solved for its rear partial-Permanent Magnet Synchronous motor.

Summary: The real deal is not the "idea", its the execution at perfect or close-to-perfect efficiency.

Last edited by Harshal.Bhosale : 15th October 2019 at 01:09.
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Old 18th October 2019, 01:22   #38
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Default Re: ZipTron: Tata Motors' new EV technology brand

Spotted this charging point in Bangalore. TML
ZipTron: Tata Motors' new EV technology brand-3bec5c3f7b7f4d48847603dd74d68a45.jpeg
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Old 18th October 2019, 08:27   #39
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Originally Posted by arvindmanju View Post
Spotted this charging point in Bangalore. TML
Attachment 1923953
In which locality did you spot this? Hope they start setting these up along the major highways.
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Old 18th October 2019, 09:30   #40
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Default Re: ZipTron: Tata Motors' new EV technology brand

Hope someone like Coffee Day starts offering the charging points. With the amount of time spent while charging, it might be good for their business too
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Old 18th October 2019, 10:20   #41
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Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
In which locality did you spot this? Hope they start setting these up along the major highways.
This is set up in front of Tanishq showroom Koramangala.

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Hope someone like Coffee Day starts offering the charging points. With the amount of time spent while charging, it might be good for their business too
That will be a good business option, many will do it when electric cars become popular.
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