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Old 16th March 2021, 22:49   #121
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

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I did not consider the maintenance too, as that is difficult to calculate, though I feel ICE cars will have at least 24 oil changes over those years.
ICE cars will have at least 10 engine oil changes, 5 coolant changes and 2 transmission oil changes during the 120k km usage. Which means not less than 10 services during that period, with associated costs apart from engine oil/Gear oil/coolant costs. At least some critical spare parts will require replacement. They will also consume one battery during that period. These costs have to be offset against one battery pack change for the EVs during the same period. Since EVs have a lot less parts than ICE cars to start with, there won't be many parts to replace during it's lifetime.
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Old 16th March 2021, 23:21   #122
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ICE cars will have at least 10 engine oil changes, 5 coolant changes and 2 transmission oil changes during the 120k km usage. Which means not less than 10 services during that period, with associated costs apart from engine oil/Gear oil/coolant costs. At least some critical spare parts will require replacement. They will also consume one battery during that period. These costs have to be offset against one battery pack change for the EVs during the same period. Since EVs have a lot less parts than ICE cars to start with, there won't be many parts to replace during it's lifetime.
Agree that all Oil related changes/expenses will not be applicable to EVs and also service intervals can be large than those for ICE. Labor charges can be lower but I doubt that. Service centers will find ways to charge you more or same for that in case of EVs too.

EVs do have a secondary battery too and so that is same as ICE. Full Li Ion batter replacement can be thought as equivalent to Engine Overhaul or any other major part replacement that we will have to incur in the 120K run for an ICE.

Rest of the parts/services are all same as those for ICE - tyres, normal wear and tear, AC servicing, etc.

Question for everyone - Across India, most folks have their own houses and so putting up a personal charging point will not be difficult and easy to plug into a solar source too if economical. This is regardless of the fact that most people do not park their car inside the house but park it outside their gate/house boundary just because you know - they can

But for those living in apartments, this is a real bummer. How do you put in charging points there? Issues I see are:

1) Can't do that for everyone.
2) How to share/schedule the use of the limited ones that you may get a chance to put?
3) Cities like Mumbai have too many apartments and parking space is at a super high premium. Unlikely that member will agree to give-up 1-2 spots for shared charging.
4) How do you regulate it? Can we have a meter associate to it that can function after putting in your Credit Card in it? This I guess will be similar to a commercial charging point but is it economical enough to buy and maintain?

Last edited by sunilch : 16th March 2021 at 23:31.
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Old 17th March 2021, 13:36   #123
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But for those living in apartments, this is a real bummer. How do you put in charging points there? Issues I see are:

1) Can't do that for everyone.
2) How to share/schedule the use of the limited ones that you may get a chance to put?
3) Cities like Mumbai have too many apartments and parking space is at a super high premium. Unlikely that member will agree to give-up 1-2 spots for shared charging.
4) How do you regulate it? Can we have a meter associate to it that can function after putting in your Credit Card in it? This I guess will be similar to a commercial charging point but is it economical enough to buy and maintain?
Setting up charging points in your apartment parking space is not a big issue. A lot of BHPians have setup charging points in our apartments including me. As long as you have a dedicated parking slot, you just have to pull an electric line from your Electricity meter to your parking slot. The cost depends on the distance from the electric meter to your parking slot. One of my friend had to pull a line from the electricity meter on B1 basement to his allotted parking slot on B2 basement. Total cost came to around 35K.

In case of shared parking, you will have to discuss with the RWA and allocate a few parking slots dedicated for EVs near the electricity meter room. If there are 3 EVs in your apartment, dedicate 3 parking slots for EVs and pull Electric lines from individual electric meters of the owners of these EVs.

Some members have faced issues from RWAs mainly due to the lower capacity of the transformers supplying power to the apartment and they are worried the load on these transformers will increase once more people start buying EVs in their community. These people will soon fall in line once the Govt make charging points mandatory for apartments.
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Old 27th March 2021, 20:06   #124
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

Thank you so much for putting this together. This has answered multitude of questions that I had around EVs as well as corrected few misconceptions. Superb writeup. Kept me glued to the screen start to finish. Kudos.
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Old 13th April 2021, 10:12   #125
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This is a video showing how 1st gen Nissan Leafs are getting a new life after almost 8-10 years of usage. It is being done at a FNG. They also talk about the costs (much lower than if done at Nissan), how they source the batteries (from crashed cars), and how they use the battery that has been 'script'

Hope we see many FNGs doing this in India as the EV market expands here.


Last edited by NG_EV : 13th April 2021 at 10:15. Reason: Adding one line.
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Old 28th May 2021, 10:06   #126
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Nearly 1600 km in one day, can you do it in an EV? This below video, is quite interesting, should put an end to all range anxiety concerns

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Old 28th August 2021, 11:24   #127
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EVs are exactly the kind of cars that satisfy my need to plan, calculate and prepare while I drive. One of the purest joys of driving my SX4 is not that I can go fast but more that I am trying to extract 12 kmpl between each fill. I've got to about 10.5 now but just the act of thinking, planning and executing all sorts of hypermiling techniques is a joy for me.

From what I see and hear, EVs require exactly this kind of measured driving approach to get the best out of them. Since the tech today only permits exclusively driving in the city, I can see myself getting an EV to extract a week of driving before the need to charge.

This would mean a second car is most definitely going to be needed for longer distances. That makes it even easier for me to justify getting a sedate MUV like a Triber (or even a Carnival) just to handle those kinds of workloads. And if synthetic fuels come to India in the next 5 years, I ciuld have a garage that is net carbon neutral.
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Old 31st August 2021, 09:00   #128
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

Nice discussion indeed.
I believe if you book a NEXON EV, Tata provides installation of the home charging station free of cost.
Is that true?
In that case can that charging point be hooked up to my solar power at home? Are there any government regulations regarding this?
Recently saw a YouTube video by a gentleman in Kerala who owns a Nexon EV and claims that he’s charging his car by using his own solar power at home.

If that’s possible we shall be literally running a car daily at ZERO cost!
More clarity needed. Can this forum please enlighten?
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Old 8th September 2021, 12:07   #129
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Just came across this thread while reading a new thread about the recently introduced Tata Tigor Ev. I went through this entire thread and only saw a cursory mention of the point that I want to make, which I feel is extremely important in the development of EVs in India.

Currently, the government earns lacs of crores annually by taxing fossil fuels. In fact there are many calculations which suggest that the actual cost (import or manufacturing) of the fossil fuel may only be 20 -30% of what we as end consumers pay. The remaining are taxes. In simpler terms, the Rs. 6 - 7 per km that we pay for fuel, consists of Rs. 4 - 5 of taxes.

So the point is, as the use of EVs becomes more mainstream, do we seriously expect the government to let go of their biggest revenue stream? In my opinion, at that stage there will be a mechanism (michrochip or something else) which will differentiate the electricity being used to charge EVs and they will be heavily taxed for the same. The government would most likely want to stay revenue neutral between EVs and current tech.

This would most likely have the effect that the low (C-H-E-A-P) running costs of approximately Rs. 1 which all of us are salivating about, will most likely disappear. This would be one of those rare cases, when the early adapters would get the benefit of lower costs and not the later stage mainstream adapters. This also makes the case for buying EVs now instead of later.

Unfortunately, as EVs become more mainstream, as end consumers we will be left with the same escalating costs of automobile ownership that we have been witnessing so rapidly over the last few years. The only savior, in my opinion, could be a technological advances in fuel (like hydrogen, nuclear, solar etc) which the government would find difficult to tax and the auto industry would find difficult to commercially exploit beyond a certain point.

Would love to have a detailed what - if scenario analysis about this on this forum.
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Old 8th September 2021, 22:45   #130
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

Got this forward on electric vehicles. Can indeed become challenging to manage if all cars stuck in jam run out of electricity. Of course electric vehicles would last much longer in slow traffic not drawing any power when at idle. And hoping there will be many more charging stations. But this still can be a remote outcome.

Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head-electric.jpeg

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Last edited by sid_deb : 8th September 2021 at 22:47.
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Old 8th September 2021, 23:13   #131
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Got this forward on electric vehicles. Can indeed become challenging to manage if all cars stuck in jam run out of electricity. Of course electric vehicles would last much longer in slow traffic not drawing any power when at idle. And hoping there will be many more charging stations. But this still can be a remote outcome.

Attachment 2204548

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This Whatsapp forward is hilarious and also completely baseless. EVs consume next to no energy when stationary, unlike ICE cars that still consume energy even if they're idling at standstill.

Interestingly, Teslas even have a "Camp Mode" feature that sets everything up so you can comfortably sleep and camp in the car (consumes less than 5% battery over 9 hours). The Ford Lightning can even power an average american sub-urban house from its battery pack. So, the question of all car batteries dying in a 3-hour traffic jam is an extremely remote possibility.

If anything, Marine Drive in Mumbai getting submerged permanently is a far more likely scenario.
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Old 8th September 2021, 23:29   #132
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

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Originally Posted by sid_deb View Post
Got this forward on electric vehicles. Can indeed become challenging to manage if all cars stuck in jam run out of electricity. Of course electric vehicles would last much longer in slow traffic not drawing any power when at idle. And hoping there will be many more charging stations. But this still can be a remote outcome.

Attachment 2204548

Copyright with the original owner
Please do not believe in these, they are FUD created by fossil fuel industry against EVs. What they actually don't tell is, there are far more CO poisoning deaths due to ICE cars needing to run their engines for heating.

Please check below video at 32:00. The heater uses 1.36kw power in Norway snow, you can sit comfortably for 2 days in a Tesla.

Last edited by SKC-auto : 8th September 2021 at 23:45.
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Old 9th September 2021, 12:45   #133
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So the point is, as the use of EVs becomes more mainstream, do we seriously expect the government to let go of their biggest revenue stream?

Would love to have a detailed what - if scenario analysis about this on this forum.
The beauty of electrons is that they don't differentiate between a car battery and a elevator motor, so if you charge your car from roof top solar. Government can do nothing to stop you from doing the same.
Plus they already tax the electricity, even with more taxes, EVs will be cheaper, because they are more efficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sid_deb View Post
Got this forward on electric vehicles. Can indeed become challenging to manage if all cars stuck in jam run out of electricity. Of course electric vehicles would last much longer in slow traffic not drawing any power when at idle. And hoping there will be many more charging stations. But this still can be a remote outcome.

Attachment 2204548

Copyright with the original owner
Oh man, what if people's gas cars run out of petrol, What do we do? Is there a refinery running inside every car?

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Originally Posted by shimoo View Post
Interestingly, Teslas even have a "Camp Mode" feature that sets everything up so you can comfortably sleep and camp in the car (consumes less than 5% battery over 9 hours). The Ford Lightning can even power an average american sub-urban house from its battery pack. So, the question of all car batteries dying in a 3-hour traffic jam is an extremely remote possibility.

If anything, Marine Drive in Mumbai getting submerged permanently is a far more likely scenario.
Even Kona EV has utility mode. Yesterday I had to sit in my car for 3 hours, put on utility mode, turned on AC, fired up the laptop and voila my own AC office .

You rightly said, this setup takes about 0.75kW, so you eat up 3kWh in 4 hours, which is less than 10% of the battery capacity.
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Old 17th September 2021, 21:57   #134
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Jason did an amazing video about EVs, all your concerns about EVs addressed in one single video. Still think EVs are not future? India should wait for another 10 years?

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Old 19th September 2021, 11:08   #135
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Bought the e2o in June 2017; pioneered the thing, really. or as some would say, became mr mahindar's guinea pig.

a mess of a car, like most things Mahindra (for a few months, I was forced to drive a KUV - don't ask). It saved me nearly 6-7 lakh in daily commute fuel for the two years it ran. Thats a lot of real savings.

but the car had a funky feel from day one, like someone had put together Frankenstein's bride in a hurry. things would make weird noise, the battery would suddenly discharge and die, only to be restarted by bending down between the two seats and pricking something with a pin - strangest design from the brightest mind India produces every year at the IITs.

the car was a hassle from day 1; don't even remember how many times it had to be towed to the garage, where most people generally knew nothing about what to do with it.

but the car was strong, and efficient. I could get 80-90 kms for 70 Rs of charge. Less than a rupee a km. That's about 10 parts less expensive than an ICE.

Even tried something as daring as going to Chikaballapur with it. The way I did was, I took it to the airport on the return, charged it, and came back home.

So it was a strange car to have, saving money, being a hassle otherwise - and then corona came and the car just sat in the garage for nearly 18 months, with us being away from town and unable to return. had asked a friend to charge it, which he did.

returned 2 weeks ago, the entire car was simply gone - finished. the reverse gear was gone, and a few more things - repaired those for 15k. Then the car started discharging. Garage people first said it was the IEMS - 56K. I was suspicious so I asked them to test with an IEMS from a running car. This they did, and the discharge still kept happening . The battery is probably gone; however, strangely, even when the car doesn't move, lights, music, doors etc work electrically.

Cannot spend any more on this clunker. I bought it because I was feeling eco-friendly in 2017. And it did save a lot of money. But the car was expensive to begin with, and now it is just a waste of money.

I will wait 5 years for a proper EV - a) 1000 km range b) quick charging option c) battery replacement/backup option d) portable charging from any petrol pump or roadside Dhabi and most important, e) realistic pricing.

However, I want to say this directly to Mr Anand Mahindra, who appears to be a nice, patriotic, intelligent gentleman from all accounts:

here's what a respected bhpian wrote about your cars, sir:

"ICE engine'd cars have been around for a century, but Tata & Mahindra still can't build them reliably (our demo Harrier & XUV300 had problems). Shudder to think what their initial lot of EVs will be like. "

Why do you do this to your country, sir?
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