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Old 21st October 2019, 23:01   #16
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

I have also seen E-Varito's Tigor EVs that were stickered GoI in Delhi. I guess it would be Kona for ministers and secretaries and the Indian makes for deputy and under-secretaries and for general-purpose movements.

The hierarchies have not gone out at all!
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:30   #17
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

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Originally Posted by DarthVeda View Post
are these bureaucrats going to drive the car themselves or expected to chauffeured around? Kona is not exactly rear seat friendly, so expecting a few complaints about that in future
Most probably will be used off duty to ferry family members to parties. Often see govt suvs doing the weekend errands.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:59   #18
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

I don't see why Tata and Mahindra both can't rise up to the challenge by Hyundai. Tata owns Jaguar, and Jaguar already has EV tech and experience. A little knowledge sharing between Jag and TaMo could be beneficial. Mahindra owns Pininfarina, which is already using Rimac's EV tech, so that door is open for them.


Looking at the specs of the E-verito and the Tigor EV, it's obvious that they both provide very poor value for money. They might as well be glorified golf karts. I'd rather have tax payer money go into buying Konas that can actually hold their ground against ICE and not have range anxiety.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 02:56   #19
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
With all the rhetoric around patriotism, wouldn't they be better off with the Tigor EVs? A 25L SUV isn't exactly cheap.
The ~25L price is for private purchase after GST (earlier excise & VAT), registration, road tax and insurance. Government department vehicles are usually exempt from road tax, registration, insurance and also from central / state taxes. Moreover, the manufacturer may offer a discount to the government for procurement - so a vehicle will usually cost the Govt cost around 30-40% lesser than the OTR price.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 04:51   #20
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
With all the rhetoric around patriotism, wouldn't they be better off with the Tigor EVs? A 25L SUV isn't exactly cheap.
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Originally Posted by SR7 View Post
The ~25L price is for private purchase after GST. Government department vehicles are usually exempt from road tax, registration, insurance and also from central / state taxes.
Absolutely correct, even though GST on electric vehicles was reduced to 5%, Custom duty will be NIL or revenue neutral for Government of India, for normal junta it’s 60%. Typically, cost of such car for the government will be more like 12-14 lac. Hyundai will give just a small margin to dealer or even invoice directly.

Last edited by Turbanator : 22nd October 2019 at 04:53.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 05:54   #21
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Typically, cost of such car for the government will be more like 12-14 lac. Hyundai will give just a small margin to dealer or even invoice directly.
+1

Also globally (for e.g. US) Governments go for local firm based vehicles and avoid international firms. Hyundai and other manufacturers would gladly give the first set of vehicles even at a steep discount to ensure they are in the consideration set for follow-up sales in case this gets replicated across Central as well as State governments.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 07:00   #22
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

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Originally Posted by octane_100 View Post
That's a risk the manufacturer has to take! No one as a customer can assure any brand that "you make this and we will definitely buy"! That is for the company to figure out. Nobody asked Tata to release an EV for under 10 lakhs. Infact this is an opportubity for Tata and Mahindra to go up the price ladder if they can come up with a competent product since there is not much of a direct competition. No offense, but going by your reason, we should be happy if we get a car with 50km range for less than 5 lakhs!!
I am referring to the new found fad in the government around the whole EV business. They want to have the lowest cost, large volume . What do they expect as an end product? Surely not a 10 Lakh Tesla. They should really get serious, quit the optics around EVs and look at pushing EV infrastructure, even incentivise EV/Hybrids with low/no GST etc. There should be a 10 year roadmap for support of this sort. And then let the "market forces" take over.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 09:16   #23
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

Whatever said and done, Hyundai Konas for sarkari babus are mismanagement of tax payer money. But who am I to criticize them on that aspect? I'd rather have them have these rather than diesel powered Fortuners.

To all those who talk patriotism- we shouldn't keep comparing ourselves to the Chinese whose head of state uses the Hongqi. Mahindra and Tata have just started producing good ICE powered cars. They'll have good EVs, they can't match the speed of Hyundai or Toyota's R & D cycle.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 10:10   #24
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
They should really get serious, quit the optics around EVs and look at pushing EV infrastructure, even incentivise EV/Hybrids with low/no GST etc. There should be a 10 year roadmap for support of this sort. And then let the "market forces" take over.
That's what government has already been doing. GST on EVs is just 5% compared to 29% to 50% on petrol/diesel vehicles. They are also providing subsidies for electric buses, fleet cars, 2/3 wheelers, tax exemption on loan interest, subsidies for charging infrastructure, etc... Many state governments also removed or reduced road taxes and setting up the charging infrastructure.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 10:27   #25
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

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Originally Posted by SR7 View Post
The ~25L price is for private purchase after GST (earlier excise & VAT), registration, road tax and insurance. Government department vehicles are usually exempt from road tax, registration, insurance and also from central / state taxes. Moreover, the manufacturer may offer a discount to the government for procurement - so a vehicle will usually cost the Govt cost around 30-40% lesser than the OTR price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Absolutely correct, even though GST on electric vehicles was reduced to 5%, Custom duty will be NIL or revenue neutral for Government of India, for normal junta itís 60%. Typically, cost of such car for the government will be more like 12-14 lac. Hyundai will give just a small margin to dealer or even invoice directly.
Personally - I feel its the right thing not to blindly buy Tata/Mahindra if the cars are not upto the mark. Buying the Kona makes better sense in that sense from a theoretical return on investment perspective.

However - specifically on this point of pricing - the taxes and duties that are not applicable for a Kona (I don't know if they are or not) - would not be applicable on the Tigor/eVerito either. So proportionally the final cut to tax-payers' contribution is still far higher in case of the Kona. Also - its not going to be owned and maintained like a private owned car most likely. What about the overall ownership & maintenance costs? Its a big unknown. Will be interesting to see where these cars are & how they look after 2-3 years in government hands.

At the end of the day, whether its a Fortuner a Kona or an Audi - its our (tax payers') money being used to buy these. And just like all over the world, there is nothing that we can really do but watch it being used whole heartedly for personal errands and shopping duties.

Wasn't the Kona "sold out" for the year? So how are these being procured? Or these are being separately imported somehow for the government? Or its this government order that resulted in the car being sold out for 2019?

Last edited by Reinhard : 22nd October 2019 at 10:28.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 10:41   #26
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

A good step by the government.
And a silent warning to local manufacturers like TATA and Mahindra. Do it fast, make it better or you"ll lose the war.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 10:43   #27
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

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Originally Posted by DarthVeda View Post
They bought the tigor in the first round of selection, and the bureaucrats suffered and no one used. Imagine going in 40bhp car which weighs a ton and struggles to reach 60kph vs. a car which can outrun a regular ICE sedan easily.

To which Tata's reply:

which to me sounds like they delivered a car with the specs mentioned on the requirement but in real world it didn't live up to the standard and are in denial mode. I truly hope Nexon EV will not turn out like that, I am pinning my first EV purchase on it.

Everything needs a factor of safety. EESL wanted a range of 80 km.

Tata provided 80km in ideal test conditions what use is that. If a bureaucrats driver has to sit in a car in Delhi heat when his 'Sahib' is in a meeting he keeps the car with AC on with the engine idling. Similarly a officer may travel 100 km in a day but it may be in short bursts for 10 different meetings over 12 Hrs, and the driver is going to keep the AC on.
The factor of safety should have covered this.
If you see the Electric city bus specs it is range of 250km with Ac use of 16 Hrs, in Pune traffic they do manage 200+ km in 19 Hrs with about 10% battery remaining. That is the correct way to write specs.


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Old 22nd October 2019, 11:12   #28
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

This is good. Don't look at the first few. If government switches over to EV, there goes the ability for the babus to claim petrol allowances, drivers to steal petrol and do under the table business during maintenance. Also, EVs are more robust against abuse as they won't breakdown due to lack of maintenance.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 13:27   #29
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
With all the rhetoric around patriotism, wouldn't they be better off with the Tigor EVs? A 25L SUV isn't exactly cheap.
Being patriotic and not being foolish. Tata and Mahindra had all the opportunity in the world to come up with a competing car. Hyundai is being rewarding for taking the risk, rather than the wait and watch strategy used by our desi companies. Also they are not startups that they can now complain that they didn't get the chance.
Thing is if we personally had a budget of 25L and decided to buy an electric car at this point, would we buy the Hyundai or spend 10L and be patriotic? I wont do anything foolish, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by octane_100 View Post
That's a risk the manufacturer has to take! No one as a customer can assure any brand that "you make this and we will definitely buy"! That is for the company to figure out. Nobody asked Tata to release an EV for under 10 lakhs. In Fact this is an opportunity for Tata and Mahindra to go up the price ladder if they can come up with a competent product since there is not much of a direct competition. No offense, but going by your reason, we should be happy if we get a car with 50km range for less than 5 lakhs!!
Can't agree more. Let's say there was an XUV 500 electric today available for 25L with a 300 kms usable range, would we not buy it? Of course we would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Absolutely correct, even though GST on electric vehicles was reduced to 5%, Custom duty will be NIL or revenue neutral for Government of India, for normal junta it’s 60%. Typically, cost of such car for the government will be more like 12-14 lac. Hyundai will give just a small margin to dealer or even invoice directly.
Exactly!!! The govt should be able to pick up 10 Konas for a little more than a crore of rupees. Which is a small amount for the govt to send a message that they are serious about EVs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
+1

Also globally (for e.g. US) Governments go for local firm based vehicles and avoid international firms. Hyundai and other manufacturers would gladly give the first set of vehicles even at a steep discount to ensure they are in the consideration set for follow-up sales in case this gets replicated across Central as well as State governments.
Every country should in my opinion. But let's look at it this way, isn't Hyundai an Indian company too? Just like BMW India is not BMW Germany, Hyundai India exists. The companies are structured this way, as per the rules of the Indian Govt, so that the money needs to stay in the country. When companies like Hyundai enter India, they are made to make enormous commitments. All the people who work at the company from Engineers, Management, Workers, Sales, After Sales etc are Indians. They also pay the required taxes every year. They dont they also deserve the same opportunity to sell a car to the govt? Doesn't it also mean that if Hyundai wasn't there, we would have had to deal with the low range cars that TATA and Mahindra is making.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
Everything needs a factor of safety. EESL wanted a range of 80 km.

Tata provided 80km in ideal test conditions what use is that. If a bureaucrats driver has to sit in a car in Delhi heat when his 'Sahib' is in a meeting he keeps the car with AC on with the engine idling. Similarly a officer may travel 100 km in a day but it may be in short bursts for 10 different meetings over 12 Hrs, and the driver is going to keep the AC on.
The factor of safety should have covered this.
If you see the Electric city bus specs it is range of 250km with Ac use of 16 Hrs, in Pune traffic they do manage 200+ km in 19 Hrs with about 10% battery remaining. That is the correct way to write specs.
Rahul
Exactly!!! When TATA proudly claimed that they are able to do 80 kms in "ideal" conditions, that is just being devilish. They knew at the back of their head that the car was not practical. That the car will not be useable everyday and the person who will be using the car will have to struggle to run the car everyday. In our everyday routine, if we decide to do shopping one day we will cross 60kms on the ODO for that day. Which will be the usable range on the TATA electric. Which means I just can use the car. It was not difficult for TATA to achieve 80kms usable range on the car. But they chose not to.

Good the Govt picked up Kona's. Tata and Mahindra will get serious now.

Last edited by frewper : 22nd October 2019 at 13:36.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 13:46   #30
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Default Re: Government of India places order for Kona Electric SUV

@frewper
There was a time when I completed 1.9 Lakh km in my Innova in just 4 years. The Indica kept for my sales staff did 3.24 lakh km in 6 years.
Unless some one needs a car for at least 100km a day he is not going to invest in the high capital of an electric vehicle.
Give me an Innova sized EV with 800km usable range and decent GC and I will buy it even if it crosses 30 lakh. The max same day return trip I do is to Belgaon which is just over 700km for me.



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