[locusjag]

Originally Posted by srini1785

My friend, you got security confused with safety. Airlines don't allow batteries on the cabin due to security issues rather than a fire hazard. However, the same airlines do allow you to transport them in luggage. I really don't think they have attendants sitting in the belly of an airplane anticipating a fire. Learned members can comment.

I am learned in this matter and I am a member of this forum But since you doggedly won't believe me, please take a deep breath, forget that I'm the messenger, and do read these links-
https://thepointsguy.com/news/overhe...ng-down-plane/
https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets...m?newsId=23054

Airlines don't take Lithium batteries in checked in baggage due to fire risks. They make you carry it in cabin luggage so that when (and not if) the batteries begin to smoulder, they can instantly put it out. You've got it completely backwards! Too many aircraft have had to take emegency landings due to smoking batteries in the baggage hold.

Again, courier companies also dont ship anything that goes " tik tok tik tok " does that mean that clocks are a safety hazard?.

We can go round and round in circles with this line of argument.

Case in counter point # 3 : A ICE powered volvo bus got locked out and exploded in flames in gujrat or mumbai (i don't remember) killing all those inside. By that logic would you say that present day ICE powered bus / car are equally unsafe?.

We can safely assert that ICE vehicles don't burst into flames just because their tanks are filled, or when parked in the hot sun or when you bump their undercarriages on humps.

You can't say either of these things about an electric car.

A similar incident occurred when a ICE car owner did not switch off the car and was filling it up in a fuel bunk. Several videos on the internet. Speaking of which you can also try pushing a lighted cloth through the fuel inlet and check if any of our ICE powered cars are " Safe".

You don't just take a lighted match near petroleum. Period.

Sure i will believe that gravity does not exists if proven properly in a lab backed by sound scientific research. A couple of guys with a charging station, pyrometer and a hammer does not convince me.

Then you should again take a deep breath, forget that I'm the messenger, let go of your predilections and read through this scientific report - https://www.futurity.org/lithium-ion...tions-2188572/

Current Li-ion batteries are susceptible to catastrophic fire and explosion incidents—most of which arrive without any discernible warning—because they are built with flammable and combustible materials.

Airlines banned the Samsung Galaxy Note7 phones as a result of this danger, and the Navy prohibited e-cigarettes on ships and submarines as a direct response to the need to reduce the devices’ flammability.

With these batteries emerging as the energy storage vehicle of choice for portable electronics, electric vehicles, and grid storage, these safety advancements mark a significant step forward in transforming the way Li-ion batteries are manufactured and how consumers use them in electronic devices.

In research published in the journal Chemical Communications, researchers detail their latest discovery: a new class of “water-in-salt” and “water-in-bisalt” electrolytes—referred to as WiS and WiBS, respectively—that, when incorporated in a polymer matrix, reduces water activity and elevates the battery’s energy capabilities and life cycle while ridding it of the flammable, toxic, and highly reactive solvents present in current Li-ion batteries.

It’s a safe, powerful alternative, the researchers say.

“Li-ion batteries are already a constant presence in our daily lives, from our phones to our cars, and continuing to improve their safety is paramount to further advancing energy storage technology,” says Konstantinos Gerasopoulos, senior research scientist and principal investigator of Johns Hopkins University’s Applied Physics Laboratory.

“Li-ion battery form factors have not changed much since their commercialization in the early 1990s; we still use the same cylindrical or prismatic cell types. The liquid electrolyte and required hermetic packaging have a lot to do with that,” Gerasopoulos says.

“Our team’s efforts have generally been focused on replacing the flammable liquid with a polymer that improves safety and form factor. We are excited about where we are today. Our recent paper shows improved usability and performance of water-based flexible polymer Li-ion batteries that can be built and operated in open air.”

Additionally, the new approach further improves the damage tolerance initially demonstrated with the team’s flexible battery in 2017.

“The first generation of flexible batteries were not as dimensionally stable as those we are making today,” Gerasopoulos says.

With this latest benchmark reached, the researchers continue to work on further advancements of the technology.

“Our team is continuously improving the safety and performance of flexible Li-ion batteries,” says Jeff Maranchi, the program area manager for materials science at APL.

“We have already achieved further discoveries building upon this most-recently reported work that we are very excited about. We hope to transition this new research to prototyping within the year.”

Why would the above scientific breakthrough in Lithium battery tech be such a big deal if they weren't safe already?

Current Lithium ion battery tech is unsafe.

If you run your new Hyundai Kona over a hump and if you damage the battery's structural integrity, you will die.

I rest my case.

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

How about - Can't afford one?

That too on a vehicle that has a limited range. Price is not even justifiable for a primary car, let alone secondary or beyond!

[Mortis]

I selected a few options that were relevant to me. However I feel that right now we need Plug In Hybrids as the next step before anything else. They will definitely ease the transition to full electric vehicles in a structured manner.
Vehicles will have the advantage of unlimited range and quick top ups using conventional fuel, battery can be charged from an outlet or by ice+braking regen. They will also get more miles per tankful and thereby lower emissions, some more torque from the electric motor and a low speed short range full EV mode for the city.
On the industry and infrastructure side it will allow manufacturers time to set up and then ramp up the manufacturer of batteries and motors and work on packaging and technology. Fast charger or battery swap stations can gradually come up in the meantime. Using a fast charger to top-up the small hybrid battery shouldn't take too long. Swapping of standardized range extender batteries also can take place

[King_pin09]

With very limited players and still more limited vehicle options available in the market, the EV world is yet to open up. One would be stuck with whatsoever is available rather than making a choice out of the competition.

Besides the underlying technology itself is in infancy as of now and betting high on it (i.e., investing big grands), is in my opinion, nothing but premature.

[Gansan]

I can afford to keep only one car and a bike. I can't afford a second car. Therefore the EV I buy will have to do whatever a normal hatch can do, including the occasional outstation drive, at hatchback speeds and comfort. And most importantly at hatchback prices. I don't think any such EV exists right now.

The first EV I may buy in the near future will have only two wheels.

[varman742]

Voted for 'All of the Above'. Should we also have 'Lack of Widespread Service Network'?

[im_srini]

Originally Posted by locusjag

...
Airlines don't take Lithium batteries in checked in baggage due to fire risks.
...

Can you carry a container of gasoline or diesel as in-cabin, or even, checked baggage ?

Originally Posted by locusjag

...
We can safely assert that ICE vehicles don't burst into flames just because their tanks are filled, or when parked in the hot sun or when you bump their undercarriages on humps.
...

This (Accidents : Vehicles catching Fire in India) might be a thread you might wanna see (I'd advise you sit down before you do so).

People charge their phone, laptop, yada-yada-devices' batteries all the time, they are out & about in the "hot sun" all the time, & they're dropped even more times !
If what you imply is true, half the population on this planet would've gone up in smoke !

Originally Posted by locusjag

If you run your new Hyundai Kona over a hump and if you damage the battery's structural integrity, you will die.

This is so not true !
Is your supposition that electric cars aren't crash tested like the ICE vehicles ?

[A M]

Can we have an option "Not yet a fan"?

I'm not sure how much time or what will it take for me to convert. As of now, I know EVs are the future but this is only one of those exceptions where I'm not looking forward to the future.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by im_srini

This is so not true !
Is your supposition that electric cars aren't crash tested like the ICE vehicles ?

Obviously no one reads the evidence I keep sharing so I won't even try anymore. I might actually make better progress if I tried talking to the tree next door.

But I would sure like to know how they crash test these cars.

[TROOPER]

I love Mangalore as a city, way ahead in cleanliness compared to Mumbai, less traffic, less pollution, good amenities. Roads are better & empty at 7 pm

Why would I not want to settle there any soon?

24/7 Electricity

Mumbai has really spoilt me in that matter. With hardly any cities/towns other than Mumbai being given 24/7 electricity, how can one expect EVs to be the rage? Unless you can buy an EV with 1000 km range within 10 lakhs.

Last year, one of my relatives living in the outskirts of Mangalore was shocked when I told him we have a power outage of max 1 hr (even that seems high) in total in the past year.

Either cost of EVs & range have to improve substantially or there needs to be 24/7 electricity, for EVs to gain some serious traction.

Let's not mistake exclusivity with 'rage' wrt EV sales (Success of Kona)

[M00M]

1. I wanted to purchase the Kona but the range in actual use would be something like 290 kms and that is not enough.

2. I have owned Hyundai's in the past and they throw up recurring expenses after few years of ownership.

3. Would buy a EV tomorrow if Honda or Toyota launched one.

[aman-bh]

The reasons I won't buy an EV today are:
• Range isn't high enough considering Indian traffic conditions and Indian usage patterns.

• The infrastructure is still in development and we need more public charging points for vehicles.

• Cannot see myself driving an EV for outstation trips.

Having said that, I have a great feeling that my next car say in 4-5 years will be an EV.

[sandhyab]

Originally Posted by locusjag

Obviously no one reads the evidence I keep sharing so I won't even try anymore. I might actually make better progress if I tried talking to the tree next door.

But I would sure like to know how they crash test these cars.

If Top Gear reviewers can be bought off what are the chances of these non sensincal research you keep peddling about.

There are many cheap ways to Manufacture and package lithium ion batteries, there is no way for Airlines and cargo Companies to differentiate hence the blanket ban. But to come to a definite conclusion that Lithium ion batteries is a unsafe technology is taking it farther too much.

[pganapathy]

I will only consider buying an EV once I move back to Coorg, as I have the space and can set up a solar/electric charging point for my car. However, unless the infrastructure improves, I will need an I/C car as well, since I intend to do regular drives and range anxiety becomes an issue with the current charging, or rather lack of charging, infrastructure.

I fail to understand how the government and car companies expect us to adopt electric cars if a drive from say Bombay to Bangalore will likely take you 3 days and the need to find charging points in advance

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by sandhyab

If Top Gear reviewers can be bought off what are the chances of these non sensincal research you keep peddling about.

There are many cheap ways to Manufacture and package lithium ion batteries, there is no way for Airlines and cargo Companies to differentiate hence the blanket ban. But to come to a definite conclusion that Lithium ion batteries is a unsafe technology is taking it farther too much.

"Non sensical research"! People won't read carefully but they'll gladly jump to conclusions on the fallacy of "everyone is doing it so it must be alright".

I've already shared a research piece by John Hopkins University, no less, where they've finally figured out a way to make Lithium ion batteries which won't explode when bent or pierced. The same article also clearly mentions that cuttently, all such batteries are at the same state of the art and that they are all susceptible to the same extent. They've listed out electronic gizmos and cars on an equal footing.

I have no dog in this fight beyond what I know well enough - that electric cars aren't safe yet. Lithium ion battery tecg needs still more breakthroughs before they're reliable enough.

I'd appreciate it if someone can prove that I needn't worry about this, with evidence.