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View Poll Results: Can a 250km real range EV meet your daily needs, given you can charge overnight at home?
Yes for weekdays, no for weekends 185 56.57%
Yes for both weekdays and weekends 100 30.58%
No for both weekdays and weekends 37 11.31%
Others 5 1.53%
Voters: 327. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 26th December 2019, 14:51   #31
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmani0000 View Post
I have two very basic questions here.

1. Does the range of EV depends on traffic?
2. Will the range be consistent say for 5 years?

I dont know much about the technology here but as far as I know the Li ion battery in my 2 year old mobile phone never retained energy for the same duration as it did when new.
Re your 2nd question, a well designed EV battery pack can retain 70% - 80% useful life after 1500-2000 "charge cycles" (i.e. 4-5 years, assuming one charge-discharge cycle per day = driving 250 kms a day in our case). In this case, 250 kms real-world when new = 175-200 kms real world after 4-5 years. Post this point, the deterioration is generally much faster.

Battery life depends on:
  1. Cell Chemistry: There are a half-doz plus LiOn cell chemistry, with cellphones using the more basic ones.
  2. Battery "Packaging": Car battery packs have ample space for protective covering, heating/cooling systems etc. Also have better quality internal "wiring". "Li-poly packs" in cellphones are built for cost, weight & slimness, not battery-life.
  3. Battery Management Systems (BMS): EVs can have very sophisticated "electronic nannies" to control the rate of charge/discharge, keep individual cells in the pack "balanced" (minimise voltage variation from cell to cell) & to limit max charge & discharge level. Phone batteries have neither the budget nor the space for these. (though some aftermarket smart-chargers "claim" to do similar functions for phone batteries)


Max ageing of the battery happens at very high state of charge and very low state of charge. Never letting a LiOn battery go above 80% charge and below 20% charge itself makes a huge difference. So do charging & operating temperatures.

EV chargers & battery software can limit max "state of charge" & "state of discharge" at various (proprietary) levels to extend battery life. (This also means packing in a larger battery than would be needed if the battery were allowed to charge/discharge by 100%. I've heard Tesla does this. This surplus capacity can also be unlocked as battery ages to nullify some of the ageing-impact.)

Tip: Even for cellphone batteries - if you never/rarely let your phone drop below 20%, nor charge it above 80%, you'll see a big difference in battery life.

Last edited by gautam109 : 26th December 2019 at 14:53.
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Old 26th December 2019, 15:02   #32
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Voted for Option 1. Ideally the range is fine for weekends too but not for those 2-3 yearly roadtrips which is actually also fine because I can borrow a car from my mother or brother. This is in the current scenario if I were to buy a new electric cars and the two of them retain their newer ICE cars.
It might also work in a scenario where I buy a current gen electric with 250km range and they buy a next gen electric car with longer range.

However if we owned a single car only then I would like a standard range of 200-300km built in and then 2-4 hot swappable battery pack range extenders.
These should be in a standard format and shape that can be easily accessed and swapped from the outside. Say one on either side of rear bench and additionally under the front seats. 5-10kg packs with 5-10kwhr that add 50-100km of real world range and then have swapping stations every 40 odd km on the highway. This should work out well enough for most user scenarios and get rid of range anxiety while allowing electric vehicles to have unlimited range
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Old 26th December 2019, 15:44   #33
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

I voted with yes for both weekdays and weekends. I would not mind the long drives as well. Only thing that bothers me is the charging infrastructure on the highways and charge time.

I wonder if in future it would be possible to just swap the batteries at different locations.
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Old 26th December 2019, 16:39   #34
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Voted for Option 3 No for both week days and weekends

My office commute is about 100 km per day with 50% highway and 50% traffic. With the expected real range being about 200-250 km it will be a risk to depend on EV car. Also the traffic situation is worse with sometimes stuck in one place for 1 or 2 hours. Not sure how the range will be impacted with the crawl traffic.

My weekend (not all weekend) run is normally to my native place which is about 450 km. Normally I leave after early breakfast and reach the destination for lunch with a coffee break in between for 15 minutes. This helps me to complete pending work in a bank, government office etc. on Saturday afternoon. With about an hour break for recharging will require additional days to complete my work

Would like to wait for the technology to mature where the range can be about 500 km with a single charge, rapid charging can be achieved in 10-15 min, required infrastructure to be in place which should be possible down the line in 4-5 years. Also the cost of the EV car to moderate to some premium over the ICE car and not as exorbitant as today
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Old 26th December 2019, 17:14   #35
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Voted for option 3 'No for both weekdays and weekends'.
I have a random travel pattern, where most of my trips are more than 350 kilometers one-way, sometimes without any prior planning.
I would have voted differently if I had a pattern which would fall easily into weekday-weekend divide. However if I segregate by city-highway, EV for city (I live in a city which probably has a 15 kilometer diameter) and ICE or long-range EV for highway.
But as good as renting may sound, not all Tier-2 and Tier-3 cities have many options. For example, Uber launched in my city a couple of days back. Also one may argue, if we can rent for highway trips if we have a short range EV, why can't we use cabs for movement inside the city instead of owning a 250 kilometer range EV?
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Old 26th December 2019, 17:22   #36
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Need an EV which has a proper 400km range. 250 might seem ok for city use but when you want to take off for a holiday or on a weekend from one city to another 250 means that you have to take a halt and charge and that makes it slightly inconvenient with our infrastructure which is non existent especially in rural and on highways.
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Old 26th December 2019, 17:57   #37
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Currently, battery operated EV s with usable range of 200-250 kms will meet a good proportion of consumer's daily usage needs. Especially in crowded cities, this will also become easier to drive.

Of course it will not meet everyone s expectations from a range point of view. Folks who can afford, maintain and park 2 cars could definitely consider one of them being an EV. The other one being a hybrid or ICE for the long distance drives.

Cost of ownership and availability of charging infrastructure will determine speed of adoption than just increasing the range of EV vehicles.

Will range extending devices like a portable battery pack help? Of course this adds to weight and cost but if this can materialize it will be very practical too, I guess?

Like many have opined on this forum, it is but a matter of time that EV adoption becomes large scale aided by technology, economics and policies.
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Old 26th December 2019, 18:40   #38
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

I too voted for option 1. My daily usage rarely exceeds 100km within city. I checked Hyundai Kona in person and somehow didn't click in looks as well as price department. MG ZS EV seems to tick many of my requirements but I haven't seen it in flesh yet. I also heard Kia Seltos is soon coming up in EV clothing, that will be added to my list as well. Will check for all available options in next few months, my 2012 Honda City is waiting to be replaced.

Our GLC220d takes care of occasional highway drives currently which we are planning to upgrade to GLE or X5 in mid-2020.

If number of charging stations can be setup at strategic locations, I see the range issue can be resolved to a great extent. These charging stations cost only a fraction of what it takes to set up a liquid fuel dispensing pump. They can be setup in restaurant parking lots and don't occupy much space either. Many of us take refreshment breaks in long journeys, we just plug the car to recharge while we recharge yourselves . I have seen tens of such charging stations set up in our offices in SanFrancisco and Austin. Plugging in your car is just a cakewalk(I have personally used this many times to charge my colleague's Tesla-X). For our country where manpower is non-issue, we can also have parking assistant help us. We just insert/swipe smart card to start the system.

I wish to see a lot of these EVs on our roads in coming years, its high time we decrease our dependency on mid-west for fuel and do our part in reducing carbon footprint.
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Old 26th December 2019, 19:59   #39
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Though I agree with both parties [Yes and No], I have voted for No, just because, as like any car owner who expects his car to run maximum on one full tank, similarly I expect my EV to run maximum per full charge, be it 350Km, or 500Km, or even more, provided, the cell/battery holds up charge during prolonged idle parking, or over a period of time of usage [5 or 8 years]. I can then replace the battery just like for cell phone or laptop.

Now, here comes the cost of usage part. Usage cost of EV [replacement cost of battery and electricity bills] should be lesser than the total cost of fuel required to clock similar mileage. We can expect the cost of batteries to come down in near future, which is also yet to be assured by battery/car OEMs.

Also, I am a part of the majority of car owners who keep their cars parked idle [as stated in another thread] for a long time of its ownership due to owning a two-wheeler also.

To conclude, my car with 55 ltrs tank, and even if we conservatively calculate an average of 13 KMpL, it runs a range of 715 Kms. I expect my EV to run similar range, or at-least 600 KM.
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Old 26th December 2019, 21:35   #40
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
250 km is enough for 99% of the people out there. For highway drives, you can always RENT a car from Zoom / Myles etc.

It's more of a mental block frankly. But one that will be solved easily as EVs with 500 - 700 km ranges aren't that far away on the horizon. I personally voted for option 1 on the poll as I drive on the highway about 2 - 3 times a month and hence, 250 km won't cut it for me.
What is the point spending so much money buying when someone has to rent cars from Zoom/Myles etc which at times dont even come with Airbags (essential for highways). And until the charging tech is not improved EVs are not going to take off(regardless the range). And especially in a country where majority of the energy comes from coal powered plants.
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Old 26th December 2019, 22:01   #41
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Question for our members and readers -

"If the price of petrol/diesel reaches Rs 150 per litre ( at today's value of the INR) what would your response be on the adequacy of an EV with a range of 250 kms."
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Old 26th December 2019, 22:50   #42
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

I voted yes for weekdays, no for weekends. My workplace is 11km away. So the minimum distance that I commute is 22km daily. I occasionally come back to home for lunch break and at times, run for errands. Yet, my daily commute would not exceed 40-50km. Even if only 200km is usable out of 250km range, it would easily be enough for my work week. So, an EV is a no-brainer for city commute for me. Another reason is, EVs in my country are affordable because of laxity in taxation. For eg., An i20 Active Petrol costs an equivalent of INR 24 lacs whereas Kona costs INR 32lacs. Again, a no-brainer.

The longest of my trips are 350-400km of drive in a day. As Nepal is a small country with bad narrow roads, this is still a significant distance. If the places where I stop for lunch or snacks or even overnight breaks have charging stations, EV would still make sense. In gist, 250km is a good range, with charging points available at each current petrol pump, would encourage several to buy EV. All that one would miss is the sound of the engine as it climbs up the RPM.
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Old 26th December 2019, 23:24   #43
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

I marked Yes for both weekdays and weekends. This only applies for weekends when I am in town because I will not drive that much. However, on weekends when I do decide to go for a long drive, or when I travel home/to other cities. I can easily do long trips of 500 to 1000 km and that is when a range of 250 km and not sure where to charge up will make me pick an ICE over an EV
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Old 26th December 2019, 23:56   #44
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

If charging infrastructure is available and there is no waiting line for charging and quick charging time is 30 mins for 70-80% recharge then on road range of 250 to 300 kms is sufficient.

In fact I think, in distant future, EV cars will have this kind of range once charging network becomes abundantly available. Today higher range EVs are demanded because unavailability of charging network. Once this problem is solved then as energy density is improved, then instead of increasing range weight reduction will be preferred by manufacturers.
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Old 27th December 2019, 08:01   #45
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Voted for the third option because of highway trips which my family do often due to work. Till the time ev cars with high range and charging infrastructure don't come to India i don't see myself getting an ev. Even if I had occasional highway use I would not go for Myles zoomcar etc as their cars are base models, have average music systems,not maintained and very few exciting options on offer!
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