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View Poll Results: Can a 250km real range EV meet your daily needs, given you can charge overnight at home?
Yes for weekdays, no for weekends 185 56.57%
Yes for both weekdays and weekends 100 30.58%
No for both weekdays and weekends 37 11.31%
Others 5 1.53%
Voters: 327. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10th January 2020, 08:47   #61
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

I voted No for both.

My monthly running is close to 3000 kms which is the reason I made the switch from a petrol to diesel. A real world range of 250 kms will give me juice for just 2.5 days, which is a bit too less as far as convenience is concerned.

I'll jump onto the EV bandwagon when the range starts topping 500 Kms. Believe me, it's not going to take as long as people are expecting.
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Old 10th January 2020, 09:45   #62
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

When I was coming back for good from the US, we wanted to end our 10-year journey with a month long road teip. We had to choose from two cars, a Tesla Model S and Acura MDX. I was apprehensive to take the EV on such long road trip, and the delays and inconvenience it would cause. But my wife insisted on taking the EV because this was like once in a lifetime opportunity to do a long road trip in a EV and we might not get another chance so easily.I am glad we did the road trip in the EV. We covered close to 15000 miles in 35 days. If we were just driving from breakfast (about 8am) to sunset (about 7pm), we had to make two-three supercharger stops during the day. And find a place for night halt with level-2 charger.

I know Tesla is unique in their supercharger network and comfortable range, but given 250km (real world) range, if we have dc fast chargers at strategic locations on the highways, it might not be so bad. With two stops of one hour each (lunch and a tea break afternoon), I can cover 750km in a day. Just like today, it would take me about 12-13 hrs door to door, assuming 10-11 hrs drive time at average speed of 70-75kmph, and two hours rest stops spaced equally at 3-4 hrs each.

Yes, there would be some discipline needed in the planning and execution of an EV trip, like where to stop and when to stop. you must aim to be at the next charging stop by a specific time like lunch hour, so you must leave at very specific time in the morning etc. Ofcourse, this type of travel has some challenges like you can only visit few restaurants or the mall at walking distance from the charging station and you might miss out on the local favorite in the town, but I have faith that more and more charging stations will be available at almost all restuarants once technology and market matures and EV adoption rate improves.

I, for one, believe that Indian bureaucracy is very conductive to mass market business, especially with bigshot corporates like Tata, Reliance etc ., if even they may lack vision for innovation or empathy for small businesses etc. I think that once our market matures, our implementation lifecycles will be of very short durations compared to say the US or the EU. Just look at the way smart phone adoption, 4G services, digital payments etc. have been implemented in a much shorter duration compared to the Western world. I think once we break the cost barrier, we will catch up very soon.

Also our average speeds and climates are better suited for EV than Western world. We should be able to squeeze more range from lesser batteries due to lower average speeds, and also we don't have freezing temperatures during the day in almost entire country to adversely impact range.

Convenience of daily charging - I think we should come out of the mindset that we have visit a specific place (fuel station) for our daily commute. We have to adapt our thinking that we can very conveniently plug in the car where it stays most of the time between work and home (was it 95-96%). How does it matter that we have plug in daily. It only takes a minute to plug in and a minute to disconnect. In my experience it is much more convenient that waiting (wasting) 20 minutes (more if rush hour or price change overnight) at the petrol pump.

Last edited by Comrade : 10th January 2020 at 09:53.
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Old 10th January 2020, 15:07   #63
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
250 km is enough for 99% of the people out there. For highway drives, you can always RENT a car from Zoom / Myles etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adi58 View Post
What is the point spending so much money buying when someone has to rent cars from Zoom/Myles etc which at times don’t even come with Airbags (essential for highways).
Actually, for users like me, whose highway trips are max 6 to 12 days a year, this makes perfect sense. I'd enjoy the easy-driving & low running cost of a 200 km range EV for 330 days+. And for the rare road trip, I'd happily rent a safe self-drive ICEV (or a longer ranged EV).
I'd see it as opportunity to enjoy different ICEVs that I could never otherwise buy. The rental cost being more than paid-for from the fuel-savings rest of the year.
Like I said earlier, a smart OE would bundle in an ICEV timeshare / rental plan for thier EV customers (at discounted/group rates).

Quote:
Originally Posted by adi58 View Post
And especially in a country where majority of the energy comes from coal powered plants.
Since ~72% of India's power comes from coal, this is a valid point. But it overlooks the fact that more & more of the "incremental" power supply is coming from Solar, Wind, Gas and hydro. So the new / additional energy demand created by EVs will be disproportionately green-fuelled (though coal will still play leading role, no doubt).

Secondly, net pollution from a coal power plant is less than generated from:
i. Petrol/diesel refining +
ii. Fuel transportation to the retail-pump (burning fuel to transport it) +
iii. Tailpipe emissions - widely dispersed and occurring right inside dense urban population centres.
Coal mining generates it's own pollution, but then so does oil drilling.

Coal power plant air pollution is now limited via mandatory use of advanced scrubbers (which, a power-plant has the budget & space to implement). And they are largely located away from high-density population centres.

Last edited by gautam109 : 10th January 2020 at 15:08. Reason: minor typo
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Old 10th January 2020, 15:48   #64
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

I voted for Option 1 even though option 2 may also work for me. My daily running is approximately 50 KM with occasional highway trips with max running of 200 KMs in a day.

I think it is more of psychological barrier when it comes to EV range. I'll need a discipline to charge the EV every night. This is because, unlike diesel/petrol, the EV charging infra may not be available very easily everywhere. This is the difference between ICE and EV vehicles for now. I am are sure that I will find a petrol pump if run low of fuel and can afford get till get the reserve warning, however for EV it is still time before we get to this situation.

So 250 KM is a decent range and can work for most of the times for me if daily/every alternate day charging is done.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 18:42   #65
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

I happened to take test drive of the Nexon EV in Chennai and oh boy was I flattered by its performance, especially in Sport mode. That one drive which I took just out of curiosity changed my perception of EVs. It had a charge of 43% and a range of 120 kms as per the MID which I feel will suffice easily for daily commutes within the city. I feel it would make for an excellent alternative as a second car to those people who could afford the second. And if your driving is primarily restricted within the city and may be within 100 kms radius, EV is a no-brainer. Rather than one going for a Nexon diesel AT, Nexon EV might make much more sense. I have voted for the first option! Electric vehicles are definitely alive and kicking!
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Old 2nd February 2020, 19:17   #66
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

How long does Nexon EV take to charge fully say from 20% charge.
Also how is the battery? Is it a single large battery? Or is it modules. Asking to know if it's feasible carry a module, sort of power bank in the boot for emergency?
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Old 2nd February 2020, 20:03   #67
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

20 to 80% on a 25kw DC charger will be less than an hour, from 80 to 100, it takes more than an hour, it's best to do that on AC charger (3kw).
Battery is made up of many cells and housed on the floor, the battery capacity is 30.2kwh. And NO, you can't carry the battery around, it's fixed and sealed.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 21:31   #68
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

A 250 KM range EV is more than enough for me from a range perspective. I drive about 9000 km per year - my daily commute to work is under 30 km, and the max I drive on weekdays is about 60-70 KM.

I drive very little on weekends - at best about 50-60 KM on most occasions.

In 3 years / 27,000 KM with my current car, I have crossed 200 KM on a day only about 5 times - 2 trips to Mahabaleshwar, 1 trip to Goa, and a couple of day return trips to Poona.

The issue I face with EVs is that with just 9000-10000 km per year of running, the premium that you pay for EVs does not make economic sense. Eg a Hyundai Kona costs ₹ 25 lakhs vs ₹15 lakhs for a Hyundai Creta top end version. The ₹ 10 lakh premium amortised over 7 years works out to over ₹ 2 lakhs per year, or over ₹20-22 per km.

A Petrol car would cost about ₹11-12 per km to run - so even ignoring charging costs, the extra ₹9-11 per km is just too expensive for me.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 23:04   #69
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
The issue I face with EVs is that with just 9000-10000 km per year of running, the premium that you pay for EVs does not make economic sense. Eg a Hyundai Kona costs ₹ 25 lakhs vs ₹15 lakhs for a Hyundai Creta top end version. The ₹ 10 lakh premium amortised over 7 years works out to over ₹ 2 lakhs per year, or over ₹20-22 per km.

A Petrol car would cost about ₹11-12 per km to run - so even ignoring charging costs, the extra ₹9-11 per km is just too expensive for me.

This is a great point and something I was discussing with friends the other day. The Kona is an outlier though, a more accurate comparison would be comparing the same car in ICE vs EV version. For me, I spend 5 k a month on petrol and if EV charge cost is 25% of that, it's 45k a year saved on fuel. I wouldn't mind paying a premium if I can justify the numbers.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:30   #70
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

The evaluation is not as simple as the headline seems to conclude. Range is not the only factor, for how long can the battery hold a decent charge is a major factor. At what speeds is the max range possible is yet another. The highly dense and congested start-stop traffic of our cities might not be ideal to extract maximum range.

Anyone who has driven a Tesla will know that though the vehicle starts off by saying it has 300 miles range, it needs careful management of speed, cruise and temperatures.

Last edited by AspiringIndian : 3rd February 2020 at 11:42.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:59   #71
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

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Originally Posted by AspiringIndian View Post
The highly dense and congested start-stop traffic of our cities might not be ideal to extract maximum range.
In contrast stop-go traffic may actually get better range from an EV as compared to cruising on a highway because of regenerative braking.

I'm willing to be corrected, but my understanding is that speed vs energy consumption is much more proportional in an EV as compared to an ICE.
For example - when idling, a ICE car will still be burning fuel for 1000cycles/min whereas a EV would actually be as good as off. Even if we say, we switch off ICE during long waits at signals, extra fuel is required to fire up a ICE engine[Remember the old 90second rule] where as there is negligible loss of energy to run a EV from standstill.

Last edited by vishchan : 3rd February 2020 at 12:09.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 13:17   #72
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Default Re: EVs with a 250 km range, can they meet your daily requirement?

I have voted for yes weekdays and yes Weekends.

If I look back the last 5 years the longest I have travelled for a road trip are Gokarna and Kodaikanal.

For Gokarna I travelled 150km stopped at Tiptur had breakfast, travelled 200km stopped at Sagar for Lunch and reached Gokarna after another 150km.So totally achievable with 250km range EV if the chargers are there. The return trip has many more stops and overnight stays at Udupi, Sringeri.

For Kodaikanal, stopped at Salem(~200kms) for breakfast, stopped after Dindugul(~190 kms) for lunch and reached Kodai. The return trip again has more stops and stay at Madurai.

If planned well and with fast charger s along the route and at hotel, for me 250km real range works.

Last edited by SKC-auto : 3rd February 2020 at 13:28.
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