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Old 8th January 2020, 18:44   #16
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Default Re: Sony surprise! Unveils electric car Vision S at CES 2020

Well, we've owned a lot of Sony products. The most expensive one being a 4K TV worth 1.5 Lac we purchased back in 2016. I can assure you, money well spent.

If Sony can replicate the quality, reliability and the after sales which I've experienced, I would say, BRING IT ON SONY! You already have me ready in the future as a prospective customer, cheque book in hands.
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Old 9th January 2020, 07:21   #17
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Default Re: Sony surprise! Unveils electric car Vision S at CES 2020

Sony Confirms It's Not Getting Into The Car-Making Business.

The S-Vision is simply a way to show off the firm's technology.

Quote:
The company positioned the vehicle as a way to show off the company's tech, but there was still some suspicion that the Japanese tech giant might have been testing the waters of entering the auto industry. Now, Vision-S project leader Izumi Kawanishi, who also runs Sony's robotics division, sets the record straight, and he says the business is not becoming a vehicle maker. Instead, he positions the concept as, "Sony's contribution to the evolution of cars."

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Old 9th January 2020, 10:22   #18
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Default Re: Sony surprise! Unveils electric car Vision S at CES 2020

I, for one highly double that Sony will enter the automobile industry as a manufacturer of EVs - atleast in the foreseeable future ,given the level of competition in the market - not just in international markets but also in its domestic market - Toyota and Honda will offer tough competition.

What I see this is a display of the technology Sony possess and is capable of. They might be interested in manufacturing some components of EVs in future.
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Old 9th January 2020, 10:53   #19
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Default Re: Sony surprise! Unveils electric car Vision S at CES 2020

Am I the only one here who feels the Vision S is a cross between a Model 3 & a Taycan? It has eerie similarities with those models.

Good Sony is testing waters in this space. I am a total Sony fanboy. I even owned a Sony phone which IMO took far better photos than the iPhone which replaced it.
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Old 9th January 2020, 11:35   #20
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Default Re: Sony surprise! Unveils electric car Vision S at CES 2020

This move does not surprise. Sony is only the first among a long list of electrical major companies which so far have operated in the consumer goods space and is taking a leap into the EV space. Still to follow : ABB, Honeywell , Panasonic , Siemens , Bosch etc.

ABB , Siemens , Mitsubhishi are already pioneers in traction motors and power systems. With the slow phasing out of ICE, these companies and newer tech firms like Tesla would take over the automotive world. The company that has knowledge in motors and battery would rule the EV space. The only thing working for present day auto majors like GM, Ford, Toyota , Honda etc would be their brand image and ASS network etc. In the near future, we would also see take overs and mergers between auto majors and electric majors. In the hunt for future $$, its dog eat dog now.
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Old 9th January 2020, 15:26   #21
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Default Re: Sony surprise! Unveils electric car Vision S at CES 2020

Anybody else getting Porsche Taycan vibes from this beauty? This surely comes as a surprise for me. It'll be interesting where this story leads for SOny. As for the brand, I've always been a fan of their products. Even Steve Jobs didn't shy away from confessing that Sony's design inspired him.
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Old 9th January 2020, 17:30   #22
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Default Re: Sony introduced an electric concept car called the Vision-S

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
The Xperia has fallen 4-5 times ..has no blemishes to show for it.

The UI is typical Android, I find their UI and entertainment interface to be much more polished and formal.
Off topic, but I still have an Xperia Z ultra that I use as a music library and an e-book reader. It does not have 4G and hence I had to switch over to a newer cellphone (Apple).
Things that even now stand out in the Sony:-
1. The music quality over any medium using Z ultra as a source is par excellence.( and I am comparing these to the top of the line cellphones from Samsung and Apple in vogue currently).
In the car, despite not being able to take calls on the bluetooth( as my primary cell is a different device), I still pair my Z Ultra for the quality of music.

2. Z ultra had a 6.5" large screen, but was slim and usable from one palm(my palms are 8" long). Similar large screen devices are still not as 'handy'.

I did not find the android implementation to be very user friendly though. It might be due to the fact that I was brought up on the touchWiz of Samsung and still find it the best in user friendliness.

Attention to detail: In many current Chinese cellphones, the selfie is inverted, so your left becomes the right and vice-versa. Getting this 'right' does not involve much effort, ultimately this is just a software flip about the 'horizontal' axis (Z ultra had that correct selfie implementation).

This example of attention to small details are what separate the good manufacturers from the great ones.
Packing a device with top of the line tech is utterly unimportant as compared to the ease and usage aspect to the end user.

An apt comparison can also be the current 'Internet Inside' badge phenomenon to the Hyundai/Kia implementation of similar features.

In the showcased car above, even the tyre setup is staggered(245/40R21 275/35R21). Had this been (m)any other company they could have gone with what most such showcase cars are, just mock-ups to convey an idea. But even this 'idea' has got attention to detail.

If Sony ventures into car production( which I doubt it will), it would be a well thought out and finished product without many rough edges.

That said, the mock-up resembles the Porsche Taycan and the Tata Prima sedan( and the Opel Insignia).


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Old 10th January 2020, 00:07   #23
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Default Re: Sony introduced an electric concept car called the Vision-S

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
Nope, their pricing was on average 20-25% less than Apple, on par with the Galaxy series. They offered much more hardware and software for the price than Samsung. I say its good that they emphasize quality and not go for Bollywood endorsement to sell to ill-informed Indians, quality has its price. Indians want song and dance endorsement, or kool-aid brands like Apple.
Not sure why Indians are being attacked as 'ill-informed'. That's quite offensive, unless I've completely misread it. You'll notice that Sony phones failed worldwide, not just in India. I've owned 2 separate Sony phones, from the SE era as well as the Xperia one, and an Xperia tablet. SE was a far inferior product compared to Nokia / BB at that time. And Xperia was well built, good spec - great camera, IP rating, audio and video quality, but subpar UI/UX, which matters to phones. And market leader Xiaomi only started 'Bollywood song and dance endorsement' in 2019, well after it was leading.

Sony went asunder after its Trinitron patent expired. The switch to flat panel TVs caught them off-guard and they kept plugging away with hardware, not realising that consumers want a complete media experience. It came to the point where the once proud leaders of TV technology had to buy flat panels from Sharp (or was it LG?). Have a Sony Bravia - screen started bubbling in India after 3 years. Replacement came with no loyalty discount nothing, and you will not believe how archaic the UI is. Have a 10 year old Panasonic and a 3 year old Mi without any problems. Leadership was bad and failed to read the market. In fact it was so bad that they had to hire a gaijin in the mid 2000s, itself nearly unheard of in Japan.

It's been a similar story for their other businesses. Their laptop business went away - a pity, their VAIOs were pretty good. They had a multibillion dollar loss a few years ago, and had to make more changes. Ultimately, the public markets are a great benchmark of how great a company is, and Samsung (with a similar product portfolio) is worth 5 times as much. Apple is worth 15x. Their biggest win of the last 15 years has been the PSx series, which built a great media experience (could play DVDs, could stream internet) and an ecosystem. Pity the rest of the company paid no attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srini1785 View Post
This move does not surprise. Sony is only the first among a long list of electrical major companies which so far have operated in the consumer goods space and is taking a leap into the EV space. Still to follow : ABB, Honeywell , Panasonic , Siemens , Bosch etc.

ABB , Siemens , Mitsubhishi are already pioneers in traction motors and power systems. With the slow phasing out of ICE, these companies and newer tech firms like Tesla would take over the automotive world. The company that has knowledge in motors and battery would rule the EV space. The only thing working for present day auto majors like GM, Ford, Toyota , Honda etc would be their brand image and ASS network etc. In the near future, we would also see take overs and mergers between auto majors and electric majors. In the hunt for future $$, its dog eat dog now.
It's not that simple, I'm afraid. Steady-state traction motors as made for larger implementations in less abusive conditions die VERY fast when exposed to standard automotive test cycles. And I'm not even talking about India. And let's not even get into the control electronics and BMS when you're vibrating them at a few Hz for 100k kms. This is why someone like Ather had to delay their launch 2 years and re-engineer pretty much everything. Also why every car maker is taking years to come out with EVs and ceding time to Tesla. The game will be in battery tech and control electronics, both of which are Valley / China fiefdoms. The motors themselves are commodities because any improvement is nearly trivial (Source - I R&Ded, built and raced EVs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by HsekarK View Post
Attention to detail: In many current Chinese cellphones, the selfie is inverted, so your left becomes the right and vice-versa. Getting this 'right' does not involve much effort, ultimately this is just a software flip about the 'horizontal' axis (Z ultra had that correct selfie implementation).
Not sure which phone you have, but most phones (I have a 10k Chinese Android) have an option to invert / re-invert the selfie image in one of the settings menus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazda4life
I work for a world leader Auto OEM and your comment on companies like Sony aiming to be a EV supplier is absolutely true , including our own company whose exposure to software prior to this EV craze was zilch. Now, we have a big division , fully funded, less bureaucratic looking at Software , IVHM, EV's and the poor old Mechanical division getting the step motherly treatment.
I know the pain! Was in a similar situation a few years ago, told my boss that we're doomed and we should reskill. He agreed but the higher-ups didn't. Entire business unit shut down because of Dieselgate - luckily my team dispersed long before.

Last edited by v1p3r : 10th January 2020 at 00:16.
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Old 10th January 2020, 11:56   #24
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Default Re: Sony introduced an electric concept car called the Vision-S

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
That they made a first flagship with water/dust resistance? First 1080p screen in a phone ever? First 4K screen in a phone, ever? First flagship with dual stereo speakers? Premium aluminium build? Software such as sound upscaling and optimization for audiophiles?
Speaking of firsts, the first phone with a capacitive touchscreen was the LG Prada, First phone with 720p video recording was the Samsung Omnia HD, First phone with a dual camera was the LG Optimus 3D, First phone to have a dual core processor & 1080p video recording was the LG Optimus 2X, First phone with 10x optical zoom was the Samsung Galaxy S4 Zoom, First phone with a 1080p display was the HTC J Butterfly, etc. Being first doesn't necessarily mean better..

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
All this while Samsung made junk phones out of toothbrush plastic and Apple with screens so delicate it breaks in one fall?

If ever there is one company who anyone can trust blindly on quality and reliability its Sony. The Samsungs and Lgs 10 leagues below, the assorted Chinese stuff come maybe a billion leagues below.
Speaking about quality, Every phone from every manufacturer has problems. It's the luck of the draw. Coming to TVs, Sony buys its Oled panels from the 10 leagues below company LG. Sony had a joint venture with another 10 leagues below company Samsung before selling its entire stake to it. Samsung is now what Sony once was. Maybe some billion leagues below Chinese company will beat Samsungs and LGs in the future.

Last edited by CarNerd : 10th January 2020 at 11:58.
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Old 10th January 2020, 14:00   #25
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Default Re: Sony introduced an electric concept car called the Vision-S

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I did not find the android implementation to be very user friendly though. It might be due to the fact that I was brought up on the touchWiz of Samsung and still find it the best in user friendliness,
I never understood this, the Sony UI/UX is typical touch/pinch Android, the icons are different and the layout is formal but not very different from other phones at all.

Although, I do get it, Samsung is the only phone I cant stand to operate, it seems too cartoonish and the gestures are something I can never get used to, I prefer the old fashioned icon press for everything, and also I prefer the old fashioned X-ross bar in Bravia compared to the cartoon UI of other TVs.

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Being first doesn't necessarily mean better..

Speaking about quality, Every phone from every manufacturer has problems. It's the luck of the draw. Coming to TVs, Sony buys its Oled panels from the 10 leagues below company LG. Sony had a joint venture with another 10 leagues below company Samsung before selling its entire stake to it.
Its not about first, as much as I meant inventions/patents, Sony has about 1,30,000 patents jointly in fields of semiconductors, software, electronics, televisions, phone technology etc, of which Sony-Ericsson, now Xperia has 30,000, the highest with the next best Samsung at 12,000 odd and Apple with 5000 odd. In terms of applied patents at about 3 lakhs and counting, I'd say Sony has outdone every company in existence. Being a tech company, this is what it is all about.

I'm well aware of Sony's collaboration with LG and panel manufacturering collaboration with Samsung to bring down costs (the Koreans unfortunately killed Sony with pricing), and when Samsung was suffering from its exploding time bombs called Galaxy Note, they ran to Sony for battery tech, their in-house batteries were bombs.

Truth is Sony not only developed LED panels in the 90's, they developed bendable OLED panels in the 90's, way ahead of anyone else. Their OLED monitors are the choice of most professionals in the medical/graphics industry, but they are prohibitively expensive for 14/17 inch monitors though display tech is incomparably sharp.

They purchase LG panels only due to cost leverage, nothing else. They have in-house knowledge and technology but with 60 inch so called 4K Chinese sets almost selling for free, who'd pay for quality these days?

Its a very sad end to a quality focussed company, this is why I support them. No one will ever know that such a company existed in a decade and the Mi's and Li's will be given credit for everything.
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Old 10th January 2020, 15:54   #26
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Default Re: Sony introduced an electric concept car called the Vision-S

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Have a Sony Bravia - screen started bubbling in India after 3 years. Replacement came with no loyalty discount nothing, and you will not believe how archaic the UI is. Have a 10 year old Panasonic and a 3 year old Mi without any problems.
I have seen multiple people report this problem of bubbling on lcd panels more so with tvs that have a VA panel, the main reason this occurs is that some one in the house hold used one of those blue/transparent cleaning agent on the screen. The people who used it will never admit it.

You cannot use any liquid other then water and only a slightly moist cloth.
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Old 10th January 2020, 16:09   #27
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Default Re: Sony introduced an electric concept car called the Vision-S

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I have seen multiple people report this problem of bubbling on lcd panels more so with tvs that have a VA panel, the main reason this occurs is that some one in the house hold used one of those blue/transparent cleaning agent on the screen. The people who used it will never admit it.

You cannot use any liquid other then water and only a slightly moist cloth.
Agreed. However the bubbling was very specific to a single part of the screen. The service guy said it's a known problem in humid conditions (!). We used only feather / jopasu dusters. All other TVs did just fine.
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Old 10th January 2020, 16:41   #28
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Default Re: Sony surprise! Unveils electric car Vision S at CES 2020

Sorry to derail this further, but I had a Sony LCD TV with this bubbling issue which started after around 3 years of purchase. I can definitely say it was a manufacturer problem rather than that of the user. Sony might not admit it, but it was an issue worth a recall. Though my luck with Sony products is not great- we still have a Trinitron tube Made in Japan Sony TV which is probably one of the best CRT I have ever encountered but it required quite a few trips to the service center for some issues here & there. I had a lovely discman with docking station which could play Sony's ATRAC which were very good compression formats. Though the player had its share of issues as well and this is when I decided to move away from the expensive them. Still bought an SE phone and again it had jog dial issues

Still coming to the tech giant Sony that it is, I respect them for what they are. They're innovators of a lot of consumer tech that we use even today and they still stand for quality. They are incredibly capable and as someone said earlier, they know exactly what they are getting into. I will be more than happy if they build a complete car rather than being just an OEM to electric car makers.

Regards.

Last edited by saket77 : 10th January 2020 at 16:42.
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Old 10th January 2020, 17:27   #29
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Agreed. However the bubbling was very specific to a single part of the screen. The service guy said it's a known problem in humid conditions (!). We used only feather / jopasu dusters. All other TVs did just fine.
Sony primarily used VA panels prior to 2017 in most of its line up, this thing doesn't effect IPS panels like the one in your panasonic. Even samsung has this issue. My lcd tvs 2 Sonys and 1 samsung none have any sort of bubbling with the oldest Sony being 13 years old. If you think high humidity I have a giant whole house desert cooler which makes the humidity level of 90+ percent in summers. The service guys gives the usual BS

Last edited by aim120 : 10th January 2020 at 17:31.
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Old 10th January 2020, 17:38   #30
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Its not about first, as much as I meant inventions/patents, Sony has about 1,30,000 patents jointly in fields of semiconductors, software, electronics, televisions, phone technology etc, of which Sony-Ericsson, now Xperia has 30,000, the highest with the next best Samsung at 12,000 odd and Apple with 5000 odd. In terms of applied patents at about 3 lakhs and counting, I'd say Sony has outdone every company in existence. Being a tech company, this is what it is all about.
Samsung has a total of about 563,581 patents out of which 335,155 patents have been granted as per patsnap.com whereas LG has 161,261 granted patents which is more than Sony. In 2018, Samsung with 5850 was 2nd in the US patents list, LG had 2474 (4th) & Apple had 2160 (9th). How has Sony outdone others?

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I'm well aware of Sony's collaboration with LG and panel manufacturing collaboration with Samsung to bring down costs and when Samsung was suffering from its exploding time bombs called Galaxy Note, they ran to Sony for battery tech, their in-house batteries were bombs
Sony collaborating with Samsung & buying panels from LG speaks a lot about the quality of the Koreans.

Coming to batteries the explosions happened due to short circuits & manufacturing defects of the supplier. I have no idea about Samsung running to Sony infact Samsung built a new test lab to find out the cause of explosions, created a battery advisory group & designed a 8 point battery safety system. LG & Samsung are two of the top Li-ion battery manufacturers in the world. Sony sold its battery business to Murata in 2016.

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
They purchase LG panels only due to cost leverage, nothing else.
It's not just about costs, Quality matters too. LG with its rollable, wallpaper displays, flat displays that turn to curved is ahead in innovation.

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Its a very sad end to a quality focussed company, this is why I support them. No one will ever know that such a company existed in a decade and the Mi's and Li's will be given credit for everything.
I too admire Sony but that doesn't mean I belittle companies like Samsung/LG as being 10 leagues below Sony. These Korean companies were unheard of while Sony was ruling the world decades back. Slowly they transformed into world class companies with their quality & innovation. Nothing wrong if the Chinese up their game & beat the Koreans.

But yes it will be sad if Sony were to go down in electronics. I hope they come up in Cars
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