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Old 23rd January 2020, 16:48   #46
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

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Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
It is no different from planning fuel stops for an internal combustion engine-ed car in areas like Spiti/Leh where fuel pumps are not easy to come by
Nope. Very different. ICE driving folks to Spiti / Leh just carry a can or two of extra fuel. No such option for an EV.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 16:51   #47
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Nope. Very different. ICE driving folks to Spiti / Leh just carry a can or two of extra fuel. No such option for an EV.
Not yet. Before we know it, we will be in an era of swap-able batteries which will be quicker to change than emptying that jerrycan into the tank

Last edited by cool_dube : 23rd January 2020 at 16:53.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 17:14   #48
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

I just noticed that MG has a network of chargers in these areas

Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV-charging.jpg

I wonder if it will be open to all EV's, This would solve the issues entirely

Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV-img_5727.png

Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV-img_5726.png

The DC fast charger network in green is done by Fortum and as per their app any EV can charge on it

Last edited by Zappex : 23rd January 2020 at 17:19.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 18:34   #49
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I am inclined to agree with this (at least until we test the Nexon EV). Hence, to make the journey comfortable, you will require TWO charging breaks.

Leave early in the morning on day 1, complete the initial 200 km in 3 - 4 hours, then charge the car from 1000 - 1700 hours and drive for ~150 km till dinner time. Next is an overnight sleepover + full charge and complete the rest of the journey.

Another option is to leave in the evening, complete 200 km and sleep + full charge. Next morning, do 200 km and then take a break while the battery gets 150 km of top-up.
I agree with GTO. Untill we have real world driving figures it would be wise to assume 200km range or even less on safer side. A vehicle of this size and weight consumes average 12-15kwh/100km under optimum conditions. with 30kWh battery it would be safe to consider some buffer kilometers.

Kona in real world would need also in the range of 12-15kWh/100km but due to bigger battery pack of 39kWh we could consider 280-320km range.

Overnight charging is most efficient when the supply is 230V/15amps/3Phase current where you could get around 11kW charging infrastructure.
With single phase you would hardly get 3.7kW. This means with single phase you need 10h or more for full charge (Without considering powercuts ) .

MG charging stations are suitable for CCS2 standard which is also Nexon spec. However, make sure the connectors on your cable are compatible with the station.

Additional inputs for your trip which might come in handy.
- Temperature fluctuation largely influences the battery performance. Therefore, range may not be same during different times of the day.

- Regular fast charging is not good for battery life. Also one reason that on DC fast chargers the battery stops charging once the battery is 80% charged. Additionally sometimes battery needs good cooling while on DC chargers.

- DC fast charging is generally 125A/50kW (Also MG chargers). Check Nexon's fast charging limit (Could be limited to 30kW)
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Old 23rd January 2020, 20:56   #50
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

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Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
Not yet. Before we know it, we will be in an era of swap-able batteries which will be quicker to change than emptying that jerrycan into the tank
The situation will improve very soon with more charging stations. However, swappable batteries are neither feasible nor desirable. EV batteries are not like small 12V batteries. They weigh around 500kg and are spread across the bottom of the vehicle in several separate modules. There is no way they can be extracted and swapped. In addition, the battery is the heart of an EV. The range, acceleration and power depend on the condition of the battery. If you have taken care of your battery and its capacity is near 100 percent, you wouldn't want to change it with some unknown battery that might only have 80 percent capacity left and might be much older even if swapping were possible.
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Old 24th January 2020, 11:03   #51
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

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Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
However, swappable batteries are neither feasible nor desirable.
Plus to have battery swapping, you will need standardization of battery packs, otherwise you would need to find the specific Service centre which has the batteries you require.

Unlike a charging station, a third party provide wont be able to provide this service. So you end up in a situation where only one place in entire town has the batteries you require, going to that place, swapping and getting out may require same time as charging on a 50kW DC fast on the outskirts
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Old 24th January 2020, 15:17   #52
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

Vadodara is not going to have the EV at its dealership initially because on the Tata Motors website dedicated to the Nexon EV, there are dealer details of Surat & Ahemdabad but Vadodara even having the Tata Motors showroom is not listed on the Nexon EV page. Better to call them up by looking up their number on google and confirm if they will have the fast charger installed by the time you embark on your journey.

My two cents: this is a gutsy decision travelling from Mumbai to Ahmedabad in an EV but given the circumstances I can understand there is no other option.

Still, 20% to 80% charge using a 15 amp socket takes 8 hours. It takes the same time to drive a petrol or diesel car from Mumbai to Ahmedabad.
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Old 24th January 2020, 15:36   #53
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

I really like the fact that MG has installed chargers in most of their dealerships, this allows the product to be fully utilized.

This is something Tata should have done rather than just install fast chargers at major points.

I spoke to the MG dealer at Surat, he confirmed the presence of a charger and told me that I could use it once it is operational next month.

I am still not sure if they will allow the Nexon to charge there.

These are some pics the dealership shared with me, information on the charges and utilization by non-MG vehicles will come next month.

Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV-whatsapp-image-20200123-5.49.55-pm.jpeg

Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV-whatsapp-image-20200123-5.50.29-pm.jpeg

Fingers crossed

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Originally Posted by atmanshah View Post
Vadodara is not going to have the EV at its dealership initially because on the Tata Motors website dedicated to the Nexon EV, there are dealer details of Surat & Ahemdabad but Vadodara even having the Tata Motors showroom is not listed on the Nexon EV page. Better to call them up by looking up their number on google and confirm if they will have the fast charger installed by the time you embark on your journey.
Tata confirmed that Surat & Vadodara will not get any charging point initially

I have requested the higher-ups to allow me to charge there, waiting on their response.

If that does not work then the cold calling will begin.

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Originally Posted by atmanshah View Post
My two cents: this is a gutsy decision traveling from Mumbai to Ahmedabad in an EV but given the circumstances, I can understand there is no other option.
There are options to get the vehicle transported but I wanted to push my luck with the road trip. Mostly this will help me better understand the car and give me a fair idea about what kind of range to expect with different driving behaviors.

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Originally Posted by atmanshah View Post
Still, 20% to 80% charge using a 15 amp socket takes 8 hours. It takes the same time to drive a petrol or diesel car from Mumbai to Ahmedabad.
Hard-hitting fact but absolutely true!

Last edited by Zappex : 24th January 2020 at 15:38.
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Old 24th January 2020, 15:54   #54
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

I hope all car manufacturers in India have a common charging standard and if dealers are taking money to charge your car they shouldn't be restricting it to the same manufacturer like how in USA Tesla has kept its chargers usable only for Tesla cars.

We anyways don't have the infrastructure ready and if on the highway there are 3-4 chargers one for each manufacturer its just a waste of resources.

Still please do record your travelogue and where all did you stop for charging because this might be the first EV highway trip on Team-BHP and Mumbai Ahmedabad is a very popular route so your trip might become a benchmark for others in the future.

I live in Vadodara and I was interested in the MG ZS EV but I have a second home in Mumbai and when i go to Mumbai i always drive so still skeptical to buy an EV until the fast charging infrastructure is ready.
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Old 24th January 2020, 17:35   #55
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

There are a few different types of Plugs. Even within the same manufacturer depending on the Voltage, there is a difference. So Tesla USA plug will be different than what they sell in Europe due to 110/ 230 V.

Here's a link about plugs.

https://www.mobilityhouse.com/int_en...and-plug-types
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Old 24th January 2020, 17:37   #56
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

Firstly, Zappex thanks for starting this thread! It's turning out to be a treasure trove for everyone interested in EVs and EV highway-usage in India. Your upcoming drive will be an important early-chronicle of the same.

On the below topic, your info is right. An EV will indeed maximise range if driven at a steady pace, with a steady foot on the accelerator. Pedal braking is not regenerative. Braking and accelerating will shorten rather than extend your range. You'll lose built-up motive energy when you brake & then spend more energy accelerating again.

The main thing is to minimise pedal braking. "Hyper-milers" try to avoid touching the brake pedal, relying on regen braking to slow down & stop. This is when you let go the accelerator & the car starts slowing on its own via the regen system (like engine-braking in an ICE car). So, if you can anticipate slow downs & just let go of the accelerator, with minimal tapping of brake pedal, you will maximise range.

Suggest you practice this in-city, so you're able to get a good sense of the system's sensitivity & stopping power at different cruising speeds. Then you'll be able to more confidently use it on the highway. You could also Google for tips on "hypermiling" - many global EV owners have put up detailed tips on blogs / youtube / auto-forums.

Again, regen braking should be used only when you actually need to slow down. The energy created by regen is less than the energy expended in getting back up to speed. So mere act of accelerating & slowing (via regen) & accelerating again for no good reason, will not help you. (There's is no such thing as a "free lunch", nor free energy).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappex View Post
Quick update:

While I agree about the depletion during highway drives, everything I have discussed/come across points towards driving at a slower pace aiding the range. That said, all cars behave differently I will need to get accustomed to the driving behavior required to maximize the range.

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
whilst on the journey please keep one thing in mind. Unlike and ICE engine that is most efficient when cruising at a constant speed, in an EV if you cruise at a constant speed it actually depletes charge faster. Braking is generally regenerative in most EVs (not sure about nexon) that will result in battery getting charged when you brake. Hence IMHO EVs with current tech and infra are not the best highway cruisers.
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Old 26th January 2020, 15:12   #57
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

I came across this video, thinking of attempting something similar.



It will take a lot of effort to maintain 40 km/hr without the aircon throughout

I think it will save time and as I will have to stop just once for charging

The idea is to maximize the range and still have a decent average speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by atmanshah View Post
I hope all car manufacturers in India have a common charging standard and if dealers are taking money to charge your car they shouldn't be restricting it to the same manufacturer like how in USA Tesla has kept its chargers usable only for Tesla cars.
I think most of them are going with the CCS standard but let's hope they don't restrict other cars to take advantage of the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by atmanshah View Post
We anyways don't have the infrastructure ready and if on the highway there are 3-4 chargers one for each manufacturer its just a waste of resources.
Very true, it will make the installation more palatable too. But it could be a strategic call to block out other manufacturers. Hoping for the best!

Quote:
Originally Posted by atmanshah View Post
Still please do record your travelogue and where all did you stop for charging because this might be the first EV highway trip on Team-BHP and Mumbai Ahmedabad is a very popular route so your trip might become a benchmark for others in the future.
Absolutely, that's one of the reason to start this thread. With scattered information out there. This thread may unify and get others some clarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atmanshah View Post
I live in Vadodara and I was interested in the MG ZS EV but I have a second home in Mumbai and when i go to Mumbai i always drive so still skeptical to buy an EV until the fast charging infrastructure is ready.
You should be able to do the trip with the infrastructure coming up but I have had a cold experience with the MG team. I cannot get myself to trust them, they don't seem to be very ethical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gautam109 View Post
Firstly, Zappex thanks for starting this thread! It's turning out to be a treasure trove for everyone interested in EVs and EV highway-usage in India. Your upcoming drive will be an important early-chronicle of the same.
Thank you for your contribution, this thread had helped me as well. Hopefully, we can get a better idea after I document my journey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gautam109 View Post
On the below topic, your info is right. An EV will indeed maximise range if driven at a steady pace, with a steady foot on the accelerator. Pedal braking is not regenerative. Braking and accelerating will shorten rather than extend your range. You'll lose built-up motive energy when you brake & then spend more energy accelerating again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gautam109 View Post
The main thing is to minimise pedal braking. "Hyper-milers" try to avoid touching the brake pedal, relying on regen braking to slow down & stop. This is when you let go the accelerator & the car starts slowing on its own via the regen system (like engine-braking in an ICE car). So, if you can anticipate slow downs & just let go of the accelerator, with minimal tapping of brake pedal, you will maximise range.
I read about this concept after your post, seems to be very promising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gautam109 View Post
Suggest you practice this in-city, so you're able to get a good sense of the system's sensitivity & stopping power at different cruising speeds. Then you'll be able to more confidently use it on the highway. You could also Google for tips on "hypermiling" - many global EV owners have put up detailed tips on blogs / Youtube / auto-forums.
That is a good suggestion, I think I will have to fly before running with this idea.

Will have limited time to get this done

Quote:
Originally Posted by gautam109 View Post
Again, regen braking should be used only when you actually need to slow down. The energy created by regen is less than the energy expended in getting back up to speed. So mere act of accelerating & slowing (via regen) & accelerating again for no good reason, will not help you. (There's is no such thing as a "free lunch", nor free energy).
True, I came across this fact in multiple tests.
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Old 26th January 2020, 17:10   #58
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

Update:

The inspection was done for the charging point installation, he asked for the last three months electricity bill to check the load.

Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV-whatsapp-image-20200125-6.57.51-pm.jpg

Planning to get it in the basement parking as it will be covered from the elements. My trusted Polo GT TSI will get a new parking spot!

He said that once the approval from the society comes through (Already approved, in my case), it takes them a day to install it from the flat electricity meter.

Tata Power representative asked me to fill and submit an interestingly worded form

(Attached below)

Letter of request for Society NOC.docx

Last edited by Zappex : 26th January 2020 at 17:12.
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Old 26th January 2020, 21:29   #59
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

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Originally Posted by Zappex View Post
This is something Tata should have done rather than just install fast chargers at major points.

I spoke to the MG dealer at Surat, he confirmed the presence of a charger and told me that I could use it once it is operational next month.

I am still not sure if they will allow the Nexon to charge there.
MG has opened it's charging network for other brand EV too, According to the MG E SUV thread. So if the plug is compatible, then you can surely charge there.

Also, Tata motors AFAIK is installing 2 superchargers at all their dealerships which will qualify and sell EV, in the first phase. Also with Tata power they plan to set up fast charging network at City level. All the best for your journey!
Also wanted to ask what is the sanctioned load of your apartment? Mine is 3.5KW. So may need to increase the load.
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Old 26th January 2020, 22:24   #60
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Default Re: Mumbai to Ahmedabad in the Nexon EV

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Originally Posted by Raghuwire View Post
MG has opened it's charging network for other brand EV too, According to the MG E SUV thread. So if the plug is compatible, then you can surely charge there.
They have opened up the fast chargers to all, which are installed by Fortum. I am not sure about the dealer network of slow chargers, are you saying that that will be open to all EVís?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghuwire View Post
Also, Tata motors AFAIK is installing 2 superchargers at all their dealerships which will qualify and sell EV, in the first phase. Also with Tata power they plan to set up fast charging network at City level. All the best for your journey!
I spoke to the management, initially they will only install fast chargers at the dealership. No plans for the city level network as of now. What seems logical is that all dealerships should have a point. Thatís where MG has made a killer move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghuwire View Post
Also wanted to ask what is the sanctioned load of your apartment? Mine is 3.5KW. So may need to increase the load.
I have used my service apartment, not sure about the load. Will get back to you.
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