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Old 25th May 2020, 20:35   #76
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Default Re: Converted my Chevrolet Beat to an Electric Vehicle!

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Originally Posted by Mortis View Post
What a coincidence !! Just yesterday I was watching Rich Rebuilds on YouTube restoring an Electric Beat/Spark. The EV version of the car had quite a fun little motor
I have a petrol Beat that's due for a replacement soon and I have actually been considering a hybrid setup for it. I'm not yet ready to go full EV
Would a Hybrid setup be feasible ? Mainly I'm looking for some improvement in low end torque and of course better efficiency.
Will a 48V or 72V hybrid system be required ?
In such a case would the motor be an alternator replacement or some other type of setup.
I'm assuming in such a retrofit setup it's not possible to make a plug in hybrid, especially one with say 10km of pure electric low speed range ?

Keep up the good work !
The Energy needed to drive your car with the stock engine on fully electric is actually a lot more, not to mention the complication of mounting the components of the system, and seamless integration with everything. The only possible hybrid setup is to put a motor on the alternator and assist the engine to give better mileage. But its not worth it in my opinion.

Better is to convert to full electric and add a small engine as a range extender that kicks on and charges the battery when low
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Old 25th May 2020, 20:41   #77
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Default Re: Converted my Chevrolet Beat to an Electric Vehicle!

This is some really great stuff. Stupendous!

I would say the following:

1. Stop posting on open forums and ensure you save your IP
2. Get a company registered and then market your product
3. Work out the maths (would you make more money by converting for the general public or maybe tie-up with some big manufacturer
4. Once the Covid situation is done, do proper road shows to market yourself. Surely web presence is a given.

What percentage of your hardware is dependant on imports is a thing that you should be mindful of.

Finally, All the best for the exciting times to come.
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Old 26th May 2020, 00:42   #78
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Default Re: Converted my Chevrolet Beat to an Electric Vehicle!

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The Energy needed to drive your car with the stock engine on fully electric is actually a lot more, not to mention the complication of mounting the components of the system, and seamless integration with everything. The only possible hybrid setup is to put a motor on the alternator and assist the engine to give better mileage. But its not worth it in my opinion.

Better is to convert to full electric and add a small engine as a range extender that kicks on and charges the battery when low
That is something I would find interesting, a series hybrid. I guess the smallest decent engine that would fit in a hatchback would be the 800cc from Suzuki or maybe the one from the nano or the 500cc Enfield engine. That way you can get a decent spec electric motor and you don't need to add a very large battery since it can be "topped up" easily.
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Old 26th May 2020, 01:08   #79
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Default Re: Converted my Chevrolet Beat to an Electric Vehicle!

Hi, great work, i completed the whole thread in one go, awesome conversion. I have some basic questions, looking forward learning from you, hope this will give a clear picture to other members as well,

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Originally Posted by stuntfreak View Post

I have used a 15 KW motor with the standard diesel manual transmission, allowing me to climb heavy slopes in first gear and cruise at 100 kmph and drive hassle free regularly in the Second gear.

The motor provides a peak torque of 75 Nm and a continuous torque of 26 Nm.

I have installed a 15 KW battery pack under the seat in place of the fuel tank and in the boot in place of the spare wheel. My range without AC and Light is close to 115 kms and with Ac and lights is 95 kms. Time to full charge is 6 hours at home and 45 min on a fast charger.
1. Your motor imported from China or sourced from reva i/e2O? reva/e2O used similar 13kW induction motor with curtis 1236 controller. It looks like 13kW peak(26Nm rated/52Nm peak) reva i version for me

2. With 3.2V 250Ah, your pack capacity is 12.8kWh not 15kWh. Assuming 5kW power required for 1.1ton vehicle to drive @40km/h(0.3 frontal area, rolling resistance 0.0075, no headwind, no aux load-power steering, vacuum pump, HVAC, etc), it would require 14.375kWh battery pack for 115km range. correct me if i'm wrong

3. How are you charging the battery within 45 minutes using fast charger, i can see only a blue industrial socket that is not good for 20kW continuous power. With current standard and charging technology you cannot charge 48V 12.8kWh battery pack within 1 hour (options are there, but that would cost the whole vehicle conversion cost)

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My range is not claimed but actually achieved as I drive this car daily and have also been stuck on zero charge at times. Lol.
1. What is the speed of your car when you achieved 115km range with 12.8kWh battery pack? Normally OEM will claim range as per drive cycle with aggressive regeneration in city. You can see big difference in highway and city range claimed by OEM in vehicle specification. Usually their combined range will be around 99Wh/km for 1 ton vehicle which cannot be achieved in real use case

2. Reaching 0% is not good for battery pack, can cause damage

3. I cant see any SOC indicator in the android tablet you have mounted on the dashboard. How you are safely using the pack without knowing SOC of the pack? I'm afraid i cannot even locate a voltmeter (which is not useful for LFP case in the first place) inside the cabin

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This was not a conversion kit. We engineer everything in house and make it ourselves. We have used many types of transmissions on our converts. CVT, Direct drive, AT, MT. Exploring all options for best results. I have learnt that single speed is excellent, but having a low gear ratio for additional torque does make sense specially in not so powerful setups like the beat I have made. My upcoming 800 conversion is a single speed since its quite light. And the one after that is a Dual clutch 2 speed setup. 😉 stay posted for seeing it soon.
Strange fact is all the components in EV is bought out items, even single speed gearbox or 2-speed AMT is available along with motor and controller. Except adapter plate & coupling and Motor mounting what else you engineered in this build? last thing a hobbyist can do is design his/her own PCB for BMS or MCU and write own algorithm. From the thread i can understand you have not even touched CAN network

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But approx cost of conversion bare minimum is 4 lacs and we can even do like 600 bhp setups for 20 lacs. Wide range of application.
I am ready to give a car of your own choice and 20 lacs, can you make a car with 600hp(450kW) power immediately with proper safety? what would be the expected range of the said vehicle, battery pack size and replacement warranty for pack? one request, I should see 450kW in display when flooring the pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntfreak View Post

4. We are using Lithium Ferro Phosphate based chemistry. Its much more safer.

Battery being under the seat is safe because we are using LFP chemistry which are puncture safe.

Also every battery is interconnected using fuses. So in case of any short circuit or overload, the chain will break. Plus we have a battery management system to handle each and every cell.
1. Any battery with lithium chemistry is not safe. Lithium ferro phosphate is comparably safe at 45C than regular laptop or cell phone battery. It still has the same danger as regular lithium batteries

2. Hope you have not parked your car under direct sunlight in day time, if you are doing so, please change your parking. Search on google for fire due to power bank in locked car. Your beat is prone to fire due to high temperature inside locked car both from direct sunlight and heat from tarmac

3. LFP chemistry battery will also reach more than 300C during puncture

4. I can only see copper busbar connection between cells. Even assuming the same is with fuse, how it will help in short circuit condition across one cell?

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Originally Posted by stuntfreak View Post

The electronics and coding is done by my team yes. All in-house.
Can you share some details on the coding and electronics you have done here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntfreak View Post

4. Im not a battery expert, but I prefer LFP chemistry as its more reliable and can take the torture. We have 45 deg in Pune and its fine. And on the contrary, LFP cells run very efficient between 30-45 deg C. Its the low temp conditions that damage them.

Cheers
LFP would be the last choice in vehicle application due to its poor sag at high load. It would be good at 45C now without any issue, but its destroying itself. You will see its effect after 1 year with reduced range. It is strictly recommended not to use any lithium battery above 40C.

Hope you will help us understand the safety and technical aspects of your EV conversion. In my opinion I would say, building an electric vehicle is simple and converting one is even simpler because it does eliminate all mechanical engineering. But the safety risk involved in operating and maintaining an EV is an untold story. When you are sharing something on forum, you should be open, accept the hard fact and explain it clearly black and white.

Below youtube link shows how dangerous an EV is,

All three vehicles are with LFP chemistry battery only, still its catching fire.

Another incident,


I am a very big EV enthusiast and I have converted a two wheeler to electric with lithium ion cells, but i am a bit shocked with some of your vehicle pictures, posts and technical details. Hope you understand my concern,

great build, Thank you for sharing it.
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Old 26th May 2020, 03:13   #80
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Default Re: Converted my Chevrolet Beat to an Electric Vehicle!

Quote:
Originally Posted by efuture View Post
Hi, great work, i completed the whole thread in one go, awesome conversion. I have some basic questions, looking forward learning from you, hope this will give a clear picture to other members as well,



1. Your motor imported from China or sourced from reva i/e2O? reva/e2O used similar 13kW induction motor with curtis 1236 controller. It looks like 13kW peak(26Nm rated/52Nm peak) reva i version for me

2. With 3.2V 250Ah, your pack capacity is 12.8kWh not 15kWh. Assuming 5kW power required for 1.1ton vehicle to drive @40km/h(0.3 frontal area, rolling resistance 0.0075, no headwind, no aux load-power steering, vacuum pump, HVAC, etc), it would require 14.375kWh battery pack for 115km range. correct me if i'm wrong

3. How are you charging the battery within 45 minutes using fast charger, i can see only a blue industrial socket that is not good for 20kW continuous power. With current standard and charging technology you cannot charge 48V 12.8kWh battery pack within 1 hour (options are there, but that would cost the whole vehicle conversion cost)



4. What is the speed of your car when you achieved 115km range with 12.8kWh battery pack? Normally OEM will claim range as per drive cycle with aggressive regeneration in city. You can see big difference in highway and city range claimed by OEM in vehicle specification. Usually their combined range will be around 99Wh/km for 1 ton vehicle which cannot be achieved in real use case

5. Reaching 0% is not good for battery pack, can cause damage

6. I cant see any SOC indicator in the android tablet you have mounted on the dashboard. How you are safely using the pack without knowing SOC of the pack? I'm afraid i cannot even locate a voltmeter (which is not useful for LFP case in the first place) inside the cabin



7. Strange fact is all the components in EV is bought out items, even single speed gearbox or 2-speed AMT is available along with motor and controller. Except adapter plate & coupling and Motor mounting what else you engineered in this build? last thing a hobbyist can do is design his/her own PCB for BMS or MCU and write own algorithm. From the thread i can understand you have not even touched CAN network



8. I am ready to give a car of your own choice and 20 lacs, can you make a car with 600hp(450kW) power immediately with proper safety? what would be the expected range of the said vehicle, battery pack size and replacement warranty for pack? one request, I should see 450kW in display when flooring the pedal


9. Any battery with lithium chemistry is not safe. Lithium ferro phosphate is comparably safe at 45C than regular laptop or cell phone battery. It still has the same danger as regular lithium batteries

10. Hope you have not parked your car under direct sunlight in day time, if you are doing so, please change your parking. Search on google for fire due to power bank in locked car. Your beat is prone to fire due to high temperature inside locked car both from direct sunlight and heat from tarmac

11. LFP chemistry battery will also reach more than 300C during puncture

12. I can only see copper busbar connection between cells. Even assuming the same is with fuse, how it will help in short circuit condition across one cell?

13. Can you share some details on the coding and electronics you have done here?

14. LFP would be the last choice in vehicle application due to its poor sag at high load. It would be good at 45C now without any issue, but its destroying itself. You will see its effect after 1 year with reduced range. It is strictly recommended not to use any lithium battery above 40C.

15. Hope you will help us understand the safety and technical aspects of your EV conversion. In my opinion I would say, building an electric vehicle is simple and converting one is even simpler because it does eliminate all mechanical engineering. But the safety risk involved in operating and maintaining an EV is an untold story. When you are sharing something on forum, you should be open, accept the hard fact and explain it clearly black and white.

Below youtube link shows how dangerous an EV is,

All three vehicles are with LFP chemistry battery only, still its catching fire.

Another incident,


I am a very big EV enthusiast and I have converted a two wheeler to electric with lithium ion cells, but i am a bit shocked with some of your vehicle pictures, posts and technical details. Hope you understand my concern,

great build, Thank you for sharing it.
To begin with, we Should have you too on board to help us create more awesome stuff. From your questions, queries, suggestion, its quite evident that you're one of India's Einsteins.

So I will try to answer the questioned / queries, and again, I may be wrong in a few places, apologies for the same in advance, We are enthusiasts trying to create fun vehicles for R&D.

1. Yes We are using the Kirloskar Motor that is also used in the E2O plus
However we are trying to produce higher torque with a different controller and parameters. Plus we have the 1st gear for an added mechanical advantage thus amplifying the torque further.

2. 3.35Volts x 16 cells = 13.4 KWh. On Full charge we assume 20% higher voltage thus 14.9 KWh ~ 15 KWh. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
You're right in the range calculations however the weight of our car isn't 1.1 ton, we have tried a lot of things to get the weight of the car down, thus providing a better power to weight ratio.

3. The port provided in the car is only for the regular charger. For fast charging we have to directly connect the batteries manually. Still working on the same. Our next vehicles we are trying to implement CCS Connectors. We have just ordered the necessary hardware for that yesterday itself :P

4. You're right yet again, but the weight factor needs to be adjusted. Also this was by taking the batteries to extreme critical, driving in cold conditions, and with absolutely no power electronics apart from motor controller.

5. Yes we understand reaching 0% is bad, Learning and trying to implement good BMS Solutions. Thanks for your input.

6. SOC is not shown, but is measured. Still need to have it on the display. the BMS Monitors every cell electrically and thermally. Still working on all of this. I don't have a finished product. It's a work in progress.

7. Please don't get me wrong, but there's seriously a lot of work that goes into even fitting bought out components. You'll see the list of things we will be engineering and working upon in the Youtube series that we are launching soon. Starting off with the Maruti 800 build. Will take most of your considerations made here too. For the CAN Network, NO We have not touched the CAN YET. However we are working on it, and again we are still learning, and implementing as and when possible. We take time off our regular work and do this whenever possible. Thanks for your inputs once again.

8. I really believe it is possible, however I also know I have a LOOONNNGGG Way to go before I actually make a Reliable, and Safe Kit like that. But the day will come. When it does, you'll be the first one I Ping Also When I meant 600 BHP, I meant an EV Equivalent to a 600 BHP ICE Vehicle. Please don't misunderstand it to be 450 KW of Motor Power.

9. Like Mentioned previously, I'm not a battery expert, thanks for your valuable inputs, I'll research some more on this topic.

10 & 11. I actually have and may be my luck but nothing has happened so far.. I'll take a look into this and do some research. Thanks yet again.

12. Fuses are located not between cells, but on the line from the Cell to the BMS. Incase of a short circuit, the BMS Cuts of the main relay. That's what. I meant by fuses on each battery. And no it cannot stop short circuit between one cell.

13. Still a work in progress, and we wish to disclose that information in the youtube series.

14. I'll take a look into this, thank you for your suggestion.

15. I'm glad you feel EV conversion is simple. I believe we will see more conversions soon from enthusiasts then.
Yes regarding safety there are lot of concerns, I am still exploring and learning the same, plus everyone knows batteries are very dangerous and explosive. I just thought there's no need to explain what people probably already know, BUT you have a valid point, I should have mentioned it; will mention it in my further videos. But just because its dangerous doesn't mean we shouldn't explore it right? After all Fuel also was explosive. I know batteries are far more explosive, but at the moment, we do not have an alternate choice. If someone comes up with a safer and better battery, I'll be more than happy to implement it.
Plus, I wasn't doing this for money, fame, or even to sell my car in the open market. I was just doing it for Academic purposes and to share my knowledge with others. Such projects cannot be commercialised so easily without proper safety guidelines. A Commercial kit needs to be entirely different. But it all starts with projects and R&D, doesn't it?

Im really glad you have built EVs too. It's great to have you onboard, and an honour to have your valuable inputs that can be used on our work further.

Good day brother, Take care. Thanks.

Last edited by stuntfreak : 26th May 2020 at 03:20. Reason: grammatical error
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