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Old 10th June 2020, 16:51   #16
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

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Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
This is getting silly now. I just read the article properly - it says Nikola debuted at $33.75 per share or $12 billion marketcap. But it is currently trading at $73.27.

That means Nikola (zero revenues, by the way) is being valued at $26 billion! In good old days of Benjamin Graham and Warren Buffett, to be valued at $26 billion, a company should have made a profit of atleast $2 billion.
It is the Softbank model of valuation: mark to fantasy

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Originally Posted by sri_tesla View Post
Hydrogen is definitely not the future of transportation.
  • Production, transmission, and infrastructure of Hydrogen are much more expensive .
This is the primary problem with Hydrogen fuel. The economics just don't work out. Remember the competition for hydrogen is not just EV but also petroleum cars. The entire network for petroleum and electricity is ready today. While nothing exists for hydrogen fuel.
Hydrogen might be feasible for public transport like municipal buses but otherwise no
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Old 11th June 2020, 14:59   #17
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

Fuel cell powered mobility is the future but not in immediate future. Both Fuel cell and battery powered are electric vehicles. Nobody buys EV's as their first vehicle due to range anxiety but fuel cell EV's can change that. Countries like Japan, China and Germany recently announced billions of dollars in R&D for hydrogen extraction and improving fuel cell technology. Long haul truckers need to carry more weight with less stops to make more profits which is still not possible with BEV's otherwise Tesla semis would have been delivered to its customers which is still not the case even after launching it 2 years ago.
On site hydrogen extraction is being taken seriously thus eliminating the need of transportation.
BEV's in general (if we exclude long haul trucks) are more advantageous than FCEV's in the current situation. However, batteries lose their capacity by a minute fraction with every charge cycle which is not the case with fuel cells. A range of 300kms will turn into 250kms few years down the line (depends upon usage).
But the most important parameter which tilts the scale towards Fuel cells is space exploration. Agencies are preferring Fuel cells as compared to batteries due to weight to power issue. So, cutting edge technology will flow down the line to EV's for mobility on earth.
Few months ago, I had the same discussion with my friend and another point that I raised was charging time to which he replied that autonomous driving will solve that issue as every driver will need a 30 minutes break to eat food and get fresh. But then charging stations would need more nodes and parking space which is very costly even on highways even far from city. I'm not sure if turbocharger facilities can be made available at almost every dhaaba or equivalent on the highway. Only future will tell!
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Old 12th June 2020, 11:32   #18
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

Good that Nikola Tesla did not have a middle name, else we would have seen another billion dollar company with that name. Wonder what they will focus on? Nuclear power?
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Old 12th June 2020, 12:49   #19
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

Not to forget the EU's major reform in making "green" hydrogen the next fuel especially to power heavy vehicles, aviation , steel production etc.
Germany wants to be the leader in "green" hydrogen production with a plan to spend 9 billion euros towards the goal of the recent stimulus package. With this aim, they are tying up with North African nations to make them the producer of green hydrogen and transport through pipelines.
Only a major initiative could lead the countries to reach their carbon neutral target.
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Old 12th June 2020, 17:24   #20
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

Hydrogen for commercial usage??
I'd be darned if the authorities allow it.

Hydrogen is the MOST dangerous gas in terms of flammability/explosions.
- it has the widest range of lower and higher explosive limits
- it has one of the lowest ignition energy requirement
- the gas flame is practically invisible
- the damned thing has tendency the change the metallurgy wherever it is stored (making it prone to leakage)
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Old 26th June 2020, 02:09   #21
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

Here a QnA with the founder

https://observer.com/2020/06/nikola-...e-tesla-stock/
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Old 30th June 2020, 00:26   #22
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

Reservations for the Nikola Badger truck begin today at 11am EST. The Badger truck is available with both BEV and FCEV power trains.

BEV gives a range of 300miles.
FCEV gives a range of 600miles(300miles+300miles)

Customers can add Fuel cell to their BEV only badger truck on later date as well. FCEV will be sold only in markets where Nikola establishes their Hydrogen refueling stations and keeps expanding to other markets.

Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap-screenshot_20200630_001634.jpg
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Old 9th September 2020, 19:38   #23
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

Nikola and GM announced partnership.

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Under the 10-year deal, Nikola will use GM’s new Ultium lithium-ion battery system and its Hydrotec fuel cells, their first commercial application. GM will also “engineer, homologate, validate and manufacture” the Nikola-designed Badger pickup, which is powered by batteries and fuel cells, the companies said. In exchange, GM is getting $2 billion of newly issued Nikola stock and will be able to appoint one member of the Phoenix-based company’s board.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohn...ectric-pickup/

Larger question everyone are asking is what happened to the Nikola breakthrough batteries and on what products it's engineers are working on if GM engineers, validates and provides their Ultium batteries for the upcoming Nikola Badger truck.
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Old 11th September 2020, 10:37   #24
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

This short-seller report about Nikola's "lies" is making huge waves!

https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/
Quote:
Trevor has appointed his brother, Travis, as “Director of Hydrogen Production/Infrastructure” to oversee this critical part of the business. Travis’s prior experience looks to have largely consisted of pouring concrete driveways and doing subcontractor work on home renovations in Hawaii.
In addition to now using GM’s battery technology, Nikola seeks to use the automaker’s production and fuel cell capabilities. Nikola seems to be bringing nothing to the partnership but concept designs, their brand name and up to $700 million they will be paying GM for costs related to production.
The company’s Nikola One “reveal” was a total farce. We corroborate Bloomberg’s earlier work debunking Trevor’s claims regarding its semi-truck that “this thing fully functions and works…this is a real truck” and provide new evidence.
We present behind-the-scenes photos showing that Nikola had an electricity cable snaked up from underneath the stage into the truck in order to falsely claim the Nikola One’s electrical systems fully functioned.

Last edited by TaurusSHO : 11th September 2020 at 10:43.
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Old 11th September 2020, 11:37   #25
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Hydrogen for commercial usage??
I'd be darned if the authorities allow it.

Hydrogen is the MOST dangerous gas in terms of flammability/explosions.
- it has the widest range of lower and higher explosive limits
- it has one of the lowest ignition energy requirement
- the gas flame is practically invisible
- the damned thing has tendency the change the metallurgy wherever it is stored (making it prone to leakage)
Even though I will not prefer to drive a car which has any compressed gas stored in a tank at the back, a hydrogen fuel vehicle is not that dangerous:

a) Toyota patented a unique carbon fibre layered tank which can store hydrogen at extremely high pressure safely. They have even crash tested it, can't recall which standard, but has been done successfully. Else how do you think the Mirai is on sale in California? It is one of the most demanding states when it comes to regulations.

b) Hydrogen, being so much lighter than air, tends to dissipate quickly and has less chances of catching fire. Though I have not seen a test video so simply quoting the manufacturer.

c) The major pain point of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles is the availability of distribution infrastructure, and also the fact that producing it consumes a lot of energy. This is why Nikola has set up a plant in Arizona state so as to make full use of sunlight and convert it to make hydrogen. It is also preferred to generate hydrogen at source at the fuel station but that process is currently a bit more expensive.

d) Best thing about hydrogen fuel cell vehicles is that they tend to get lighter as the fuel is 'burned' off (not a good expression for a fuel cell!) unlike BEVs which have to lug around heavy batteries. Though this is more relevant in case of CVs which Nikola is planning in a big way.

e) The amazing YouTube channel Real Engineering has an interesting video and the author claimed that the sweet spot (trade off between battery weight and additional capacity) for any CV buyer to achieve break even on an investment in hydrogen fuel cell truck is around 800-1200 km region.
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Old 11th September 2020, 11:56   #26
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

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Originally Posted by TaurusSHO View Post
This short-seller report about Nikola's "lies" is making huge waves!
Quote:
Trevor has appointed his brother, Travis, as “Director of Hydrogen Production/Infrastructure” to oversee this critical part of the business. Travis’s prior experience looks to have largely consisted of pouring concrete driveways and doing subcontractor work on home renovations in Hawaii.
There was a similar story about Musk using Tesla to bail out Solar City where his brother was a director. This was back in 2018 I think and people have already forgotten about Solar City.
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Old 12th September 2020, 01:06   #27
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

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Originally Posted by TaurusSHO View Post
This short-seller report about Nikola's "lies" is making huge waves!

https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/
That was an incredible read. I'm honestly gobsmacked.

I think this man has taken vaporware to a fine-art level. Jail him pronto!
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Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap-screenshot_20200912011111_brave.jpg  

Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap-screenshot_20200912012146_brave.jpg  


Last edited by digitalnirvana : 12th September 2020 at 01:22.
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Old 12th September 2020, 04:19   #28
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

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Originally Posted by AZT View Post
There was a similar story about Musk using Tesla to bail out Solar City where his brother was a director. This was back in 2018 I think and people have already forgotten about Solar City.
Not really similar. Solar City was a real company with thousands of customers generating millions in revenues. I have had Solar City in my house long before I bought a Tesla. I have referred many friends who also got Solar City system. Musk saw synergy between the two companies when investors did not.
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Old 12th September 2020, 13:13   #29
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

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Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon View Post
Musk saw synergy between the two companies when investors did not.
I get where you're coming from but there an entire court deposition about this and Solar City was in a bigger mess than most people realize. Posting 2 threads below which have documented the entire saga from start to finish once the court documents were unsealed.

Thread 1 (Background and Solar City financial mess) : https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...557225984.html

Thread 2 (Kimbal Musk deposition in Solar City lawsuit): https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...711213568.html

It's things like this that make you realize how majority share holders can do whatever they want as long as they control the board.
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Old 16th September 2020, 01:04   #30
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Re: Tesla rival Nikola debuts with US$ 12 billion market cap

US SEC might charge Nikola for misleading investors by showing a lorry moving downhill as one moving on it's own. It happened in January 2018.
The company has now accepted that the lorry had all the working parts except for a fuel cell.
I wonder if an honest man or company can ever compete in a world where this practice is prevalent everywhere in some form or another.
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