[rohitoasis]

I cannot claim to be an expert and information is mostly from reading articles.

Logically Indian driving cycles are a far cry from WLTP or NEDC. Ours would tend to have lower peak speeds and probably far higher accelerations/decelerations. There is a paper i could find comparing the driving in our cities with the standardized testing protocols which i have attached here. The findings more or less match our understanding.

From what i understand, Our Indian driving cycle IDC is an in house ARAI effort and Modified Indian Driving cycle MIDC was fashioned around NEDC.

In view of enforcing emission control on vehicles in India, the first Indian Driving Cycle (IDC) was first developed by Automotive Research Association of India (ARAI) in 1985 under the Central Motor Vehicles Rules in India. The cycle was based on actual on-road measurements conducted by ARAI, Pune.

While IDC is still used for testing of two- and three-wheelers in India, MIDC (modified Indian driving cycle) is used for assessing emissions from cars and LCVs. MIDC was adopted in the year 2000 and was later modified with a better cold start testing procedure. It is mostly the same as Europe’s NEDC (New European Driving Cycle)

If you see the conclusion in the attached paper it states that eventually we will also move to towards a system around WLTP.

The World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations (WP.29) offers environmental and trade benefits for globally harmonized regulations on vehicles. India, being a party to the 1998 Agreement, has to ratify it by adopting WLTP and WHDC.

As per this article in Overdrive, India should adopt a driving cycle based on WLTP by the year 2021. I have not been able to corroborate this.

Experts may opine on this and share further updates.

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you for sharing this data and the videos. Please could you let me know what do NEDC and WLTP stand for? And what accounts for the difference in range between the two measures.

The previous posts contain some nice graphics. I like to point to this picture below which I nicked from sciencedirect.



WLTP is the procedure and WLTC is one of the driving cycles used. In the case of most electric cars, the WLTC (class 3) is used which is also shown in the above picture. From the picture and parameters on the side, you will notice that, though WLTC is done in a lab similar to NEDC, it is a bit more realistic with very dynamic driving/braking setpoints. Hence the range (for EVs) and Fuel efficiency (of ICE vehicles) is lesser in WLTC. I like the EPA range tests, which are even more realstic than WLTP. Further information on EPA driving tests / cycles here

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

At 2 tonnes that is a heavy car. I expect over the next 10 years with new materials and new layouts the EVs will get lighter. As with aircraft so with EVs every kg of weight saved is directly proportional to range increased. Great to see Mercedes jumping onto the EV train. Interestingly enough EVs in design and layout mimic ICE cars when they really don't need to. It is also thus to not dump too much change on the customer at one go. Early Edwardian cars also looked like horse drawn carriages but without the horses. I expect by 2035 EVs to look completely different.

By 2040 Team BHP will have a section named ICS cars of Yesteryears.

Indeed EQA 250 is far heavy when compared to GLA 180, which weighs in at 1380kg. I am a fan of lightweighting (Long live Colin Chapman's philosophy!), but I think the heaviness comes from using the GLA platform and tinkering an electric powertrain in it. (Trivia: BMW i3 120Ah is the only lightweight EV at 1345kg which can drive 285/306 kms (WLTP/NEDC) in one charge)

It looks like Mercedes did not start from a clean slate design, like Hyundai, VW or Tesla. They just think the same way as the other German manufacturer (BMW) trying to use the same platform for ICE and Electric cars. One good thing that comes out is they can keep the prices down to compete with other EV players in the same entry level segments, but people are going to find out sooner or later about the missing frunk, interior space, heavy weight etc. I think it is a matter of time. Also lightweighting (even on a non clean slate design) not only improves range, but also the whole car can make use of smaller brakes, less tire wear, less pollution from brake and tire particles, cost of making and replacing wearables and of course save a lot of time and resource on re-engineering. They can transfer all the benefits to the consumers and benefit themselves. It is getting better, except for few adamant (mature) kids on the block.

I am looking forward to read that section 'ICS cars of yesteryear'

[Sebring]

Tesla is quite a heavy car at 2,250 Kgs. Batteries weigh about 500 Kgs. Hyundai (Kona) and VW (ID) look quite conventional actually. if you mean the the 'grounds up' approach regarding innards, I believe they are miles behind Tesla. I dont know much, and these are my views as a layman

Originally Posted by carthick1000

Indeed EQA 250 is far heavy when compared to GLA 180, which weighs in at 1380kg. I am a fan of lightweighting (Long live Colin Chapman's philosophy!), but I think the heaviness comes from using the GLA platform and tinkering an electric powertrain in it. (Trivia: BMW i3 120Ah is the only lightweight EV at 1345kg which can drive 285/306 kms (WLTP/NEDC) in one charge). It looks like Mercedes did not start from a clean slate design, like Hyundai, VW or Tesla. They just think the same way as the other German manufacturer (BMW) trying to use the same platform for ICE and Electric cars.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Tesla is quite a heavy car at 2,250 Kgs. Batteries weigh about 500 Kgs. Hyundai (Kona) and VW (ID) look quite conventional actually. if you mean the the 'grounds up' approach regarding innards, I believe they are miles behind Tesla. I dont know much, and these are my views as a layman

Tesla Model Y is of the same weight as EQA, but EQA is a smaller car.

Grounds up means cars built entirely on Electric platform like the Taycan, VW ID, Mustang Mach e etc.

EQA is modified from a GLA based platform, EQC came from GLC, similar is the case with BMW electric cars, I think Audi etron is based on Q8, Kona, Niro & Soul electrics on their respective ICE platforms.

For a grounds up platform, the hood can be made smaller, the cab can be pushed forward, frunk can be accommodated are some of the benefits.

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Tesla is quite a heavy car at 2,250 Kgs. Batteries weigh about 500 Kgs. Hyundai (Kona) and VW (ID) look quite conventional actually. if you mean the the 'grounds up' approach regarding innards, I believe they are miles behind Tesla. I dont know much, and these are my views as a layman

I am not sure which Tesla you mean. But I meant the entry level SUVs offered in Electric variants.

The curb weight of dual motor Tesla Model Y is 2003kgs. Note the single motor, which is comparable with EQA 250 should be even lighter (measurements are not out yet). Kona is the lightest at 1610kg dry weight. Comparitively VW ID4 is heavier 2124kgs curb.

Making cars for more than 100 years and Mercedes comes up (relatively) late with an entry level electric SUV at 2040kg and that too not a ground up electric platform. They want to eat a little in the EV marketshare, but not as committed as Tesla, VW or Hyundai. That doesn't sound very promising, IMHO.

[vinjosep]

Originally Posted by carthick1000

I
Making cars for more than 100 years and Mercedes comes up (relatively) late with an entry level electric SUV at 2040kg and that too not a ground up electric platform. They want to eat a little in the EV marketshare, but not as committed as Tesla, VW or Hyundai. That doesn't sound very promising, IMHO.

I have to correct you there. The grounds up development/ fully-electric strategy from Mercedes is announced & already available in the media. Its not a knee jerk reaction either if you closely follow the regular announcements.

EQS is the first one of the upcoming series; further models and details in the link below.

https://www.daimler.com/innovation/d...eq-models.html

All new technology from Mercedes traditionally starts with the S lineup

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by vinjosep

I have to correct you there. The grounds up development/ fully-electric strategy from Mercedes is announced & already available in the media. Its not a knee jerk reaction either if you closely follow the regular announcements.

EQS is the first one of the upcoming series; further models and details in the link below.

https://www.daimler.com/innovation/d...eq-models.html

All new technology from Mercedes traditionally starts with the S lineup

Well, I was aware of it. I would like to point that the traditional German companies (except VW) are still moving at their own pace and keeping with traditions. Technology and adoption doesn't always work that way. And it is completely normal sometimes for people to accept what a car manufacturer offers rather than what a customer needs. I am for one not a fan of this approach. Sorry to hurt the traditions of Mercedes. By the way, it is not a knee jerk reaction. Hope you get my perspective.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by vinjosep

I have to correct you there. The grounds up development/ fully-electric strategy from Mercedes is announced & already available in the media. Its not a knee jerk reaction either if you closely follow the regular announcements.

EQS is the first one of the upcoming series; further models and details in the link below.

https://www.daimler.com/innovation/d...eq-models.html

All new technology from Mercedes traditionally starts with the S lineup

I also wonder at what cost though. EQA has compromised performance, weight and also range at almost 48k Euros. A Model 3 Long Range which costs about the same, although not an SUV, beats this thing in performance, range and technology. It just doesnt beat, its a slam dunk. I wish Mercedes did not came out with these half baked products and launches proper electric cars. This is quite frankly an embarrassing effort from one of the oldest makers of car on the planet.

[androdev]

Tesla drivetrain technology is the best currently but it will soon be commoditised a bit like current IC engines. There is a reason why Tesla remains unchallenged in EV space because the big players think they will be able to close the gap in drivetrain technology as and when it becomes a top priority for them. Whatever launches you see are not whole hearted attempts.

My guess is that the big players consider the current phase as a transition and not mature future car technology to commit fully. Electric motors won't see any ground breaking innovations but I think battery/energy storage technology disruptions are imminent.

And then there is the big question of definition of future car as a whole - self driving, highly digital/connected, etc. It's just too unpredictable to make big commitments.

[Venkatesh]

Production of Mercedes EQA at Rastatt plant in Germany

https://youtu.be/ZrhYYV9GBzA

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by vinjosep

I have to correct you there. The grounds up development/ fully-electric strategy from Mercedes is announced & already available in the media. Its not a knee jerk reaction either if you closely follow the regular announcements.

EQS is the first one of the upcoming series; further models and details in the link below.

Correct. The EQA will be the last car to share its platform with the internal-combustion sibling. Starting from the EQS, the platforms for EV will be very different and thats a ground up product than just taking a platform built for IC and shoving in an electric motor. It will also do some good weight saving since the battery will be better integrated to the chassis and the structural elements are also going to be different. Developing a different platform for the A class currently for this version of the EQA wasnt possible since the IC powered A class was conceptualized pretty long back, and at a time when the electric strategy was still being discussed in Daimler. But the next version of the EQA will be a more ground up product.

[Venkatesh]

Mercedes EQA reviews

https://youtu.be/jqFVCJgqzKg

https://youtu.be/967waGTMa7k

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I also wonder at what cost though. EQA has compromised performance, weight and also range at almost 48k Euros. A Model 3 Long Range which costs about the same, although not an SUV, beats this thing in performance, range and technology. It just doesnt beat, its a slam dunk.

When I checked Finland prices, Model 3 SR+ (RWD) is priced a about the same as EQA, but the Model 3 LR (Dual Motor) is about €10K extra. Model Y LR is another €6k dearer.

I haven't gone through the entire feature list of EQA, but from a quick glance, it is more feature-loaded than the average Mercedes you get here and has all the basics covered. The WLTP range for the Model 3 SR+ and EQA is quite close (448 vs 424).

If I am in the market for a EV in the price range of the EQA, I will consider the EQA to be a worthy competitor to the Tesla Model 3 SR+. I have no interest in 0-100 times, I don't have to deal with the possibility of any of Tesla's build quality issues, I much prefer the interior of the EQA and it has the advantage of a higher seating position. The EQA has plenty of range for my everyday use (about 40km a day on average).

Yes, on a long trip the Tesla will be faster - but then I don't make them often. In Finland, Tesla does not have the Supercharger advantage like in US or Norway - there are only 10 or 11 of them operational in the whole country. The nearest one to me is 30km away and the next nearest one is a 130km away. So, when it comes to public charging, most of the time everyone will be charging at 11kW AC or 50-150kW CCS on long trips.

For me it comes down to what the usage pattern is, how much I value the pros of each car and how much I can adjust with each ones cons. Far from being a slam dunk.

[ron178]

Korean-market LHD Mercedes-EQ EQA scores 1st-grade rating in KNCAP safety assessments, with 5 stars for occupant protection, 4 stars for vulnerable road users and 4 stars for safety assist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKrfKHldeG8