[rosh_aveo1.4]

Dude that was amazing. To think all of us have the option to convert our cars to EV rather than buy the expensive ones is clearly a game changer. Would love to know the cost. And do we get to choose like a bigger motor for more cash vs smaller ones or so?

[starke]

Superb work Stuntfreak. Myself coming from lots of retro-fitment & EV background, this is very interesting work.

The confusing part is the range of 250 km from an 18 kWh battery, the consumption will round to about ~ 72 Wh/km which is the lowest I have ever seen. (I have all the data of almost all EVs around the globe and the competitive value I could fetch is 110 ). Even if the gearbox could help the latter ratio of motor rpm to the wheel, the efficiency drop of 10% is minimum to be considered. The energy density will also not help as the chemistry you mentioned is LFP, not NMC. Very much interested to know the background of this

Apart from this, this is exhibiting high-level craftsmanship as the packaging and integration are very near to OEM level. Definitely, this is not a hobby team as I know how complex it is to develop a system from scratch if made in-house.

If you can figure out the homologation part, you could do this officially and can drive/sell the vehicle in public roads.

All the best and hope we can see more of these in the future.

[sramanat]

Great work! Can this kind of conversion/consulting be done for others? If so, what would be the price involved in such a conversion? An older friend owns 12-15 classic cars in different states of disrepair (5 mercedes, a vw beetle with rear engine, a land rover with spare wheel on the bonet, a volvo etc.). If the mood strikes him, he tries to restore one and stops midway due to parts being unavailable. I am going to show this thread to him.

[NPV]

Originally Posted by sramanat

An older friend owns 12-15 classic cars in different states of disrepair (5 mercedes, a vw beetle with rear engine, a land rover with spare wheel on the bonet, a volvo etc.). If the mood strikes him, he tries to restore one and stops midway due to parts being unavailable. I am going to show this thread to him.

Why not do a planned restoration of these classic cars ? It's definitely possible if one has the time, money and right people. You should probably point your friend to the team BHP classic car restoration threads, look at some by @Kartikeyal

Converting these old classics to EVs doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

[sramanat]

Originally Posted by NPV

Why not do a planned restoration of these classic cars ? It's definitely possible if one has the time, money and right people. You should probably point your friend to the team BHP classic car restoration threads, look at some by @Kartikeyal

Converting these old classics to EVs doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. . I am kind of sold on the premise of stuntfreak's post - that of an affordable and standardized EV conversion kit. The same reason I love the Tata Nexon EV.
As far my friend's collection, until about 5 years back, he used to take the cars to classic shows, so I guess most of them can be up and running with minor repairs. For those in Bangalore and interested, The Whitefield Club in Bangalore has many members with classic cars. They had a show 2-3 years back. I've seen another of my neighbor drive a 1950s MG convertible when the weather is good.

That said, it is a long pending task on my part to catalog and post my friend's collection here. I will try to do it this weekend.

[SS80]

I have suggestion, not sure how feasible it would be. If you can add a diesel engine (tiny one like below) and pair it up with a 70~90amp alternator and place it in boot with exhaust pipe exiting under the vehicle. This would help the owner to charge the vehicle in remote places and takes care of range anxiety too.

On long highway drives, when we park the car for 30-45mins for a chai or meal break, the engine can run (start it through app) and charge the battery to some extent.

[AlQuazi]

Originally Posted by stuntfreak

We ended up developing the entire EV Powertrain ourself.

Congratulations! That is some amazing work on the EV!

Originally Posted by stuntfreak

1. Motor - 15 KW, Peak 35 KW
Max Torque: 170 Nm at Motor Shaft, 842 Nm. at Wheels.

Are you sure this is right? Something seems off in the specs.

Let me explain my doubts - 15 kW translates to 21 odd bhp from the motor which is the realm of 200-250cc motorcycles.

With this kind of power and a 200 kg GVW, these vehicles struggle to touch 120 km/h, whereas you're claiming a 160 km/h top speed on a vehicle 5 times that weight!

I think this is most likely a typo that needs to be corrected.

Either that, or you've managed to break some laws of physics!

This definitely doesn't take away the fact that you've managed to out-do the OEMs in this race!

Congratulations once again!

[smsrini]

This is an interesting thread and kudos to your efforts.

There is a growing interest to convert some of the classic cars like a VW beetle, a VW baywindow bus or a Mercedes W124 e class to electric powertrains to keep alive these cars. Hopefully such efforts will bear fruit in offering commercial conversions for the classics.

regards
Srinivas

[starke]

Originally Posted by AlQuazi

Are you sure this is right? Something seems off in the specs.

Let me explain my doubts - 15 kW translates to 21 odd bhp from the motor which is the realm of 200-250cc motorcycles.

He has mentioned 15 kW & 35 kW peak, means the 15 kW stands as nominal.

Considering the torque availability from 0 rpm and the rpm of motor combined with the gearbox (which is unconventional among EVs), the motor can achieve some rpm around 6k to 8k with the help of 5th or overdrive 6th can translate the similar wheel rpm as an engine. But keep in mind the current drawn and heat generated at this speed will be so high ( ~ 150A + if system voltage is around 250V ) , so this 160 kmph is possible, but strongly not suggested

[stuntfreak]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

I don't have any real world knowledge about this, but I can link you to the jay Leno video where they very briefly talk about it. I understand that what you are doing is completely different from what they are doing. It's just for discussion and knowledge. They talk about the gearbox at 16:20 and they made a comment about how DC motor is more efficient at higher RPM than lower RPM.

https://Youtu.be/VrjPD8uBmxQ?t=976

The reason I ask this is because apart from electrifying my current vehicle, I would be really interested in getting some small electric vehicle (most likely like an ATV) designed and built from you for my farm in the near future.

Hi. I would like to emphasize on the fact that, what you are comparing to is essentially a 7 motor fully configurable system with extremely high torque and speed limits to begin with.

For those who overdesign such a big system, have a huge speed range too. For example, the Tesla Model S has a top speed of 250 kmph. Which means that it's already designed in such a way that it is efficient at cruising speeds of 100-140 kmph.

Now compare that to a Nexon EV. The Nexon maxes out at 120 kmph. Which is why its efficient at 50-60 kmph only.

In short, if you do drive a tesla model S at 250 kmph constantly, you would for a fact, get considerably low range compared to if you drive at 100-120 kmph.. The real question is, would you be driving at 250 constantly? If yes, that's probably on the German Autobahn, but then there is mentally acceptance about the Excess SOC Consumption. However you cannot explain this to a person travelling on Indian highways with say a Nexon EV. He or She has to risk the safety of their own vehicle and the others on the road by driving slow, with low acceleration, and probably without AC, just to avoid getting stuck in the middle of the highway, thus causing a hinderance to everyone on the road. That's the real challenge I'm trying to solve. A solution for Low Powered low Revving (Compared to expensive EVs abroad) to cope up with ICE Vehicles in terms of Range, Accelerations, and speed.

Originally Posted by swarnava.ch

Dear Stuntfreak, Kudos to your efforts, will definitely follow your posts further to keep myself updated on some of your other projects.
Two points which stand out:
- Fit and Finish of the final product, amazing, doesn’t look like reworked at all.
- Its very interesting to see that you got permission to drive on road.
- In house BMS and other components - hats off, these require quite a lot of time, effort and dedication to develop.

I am a ex-EV owner and a supporter of EVs in general and have a a few questions for you hope you won’t mind sharing your views on the same.

1. Will you be able to commercialize this as say Kits that owners can get retrofitted and enjoy their car longer with valid paperwork ?

2. I have always had the opinion that PHEVs are a better value proposition. If I get a pure EV range of say about 100 kms which will take care of regular in city commute (office) and I still have the regular 1.5 lit ICE for the occasional highway drive. I feel this combination can be amazing to win over customers if decently prized. Would love to hear your views on this ? Can your kits achieve something like this ?

Thanks a lot for your kind words. About 2 years ago when we took upon the Whole EV Deal a bit more seriously, we decided to do things properly. The vehicle is first scanned, a 3D model is made, everything is designed in 3D first, and manufactured with state of the art technologies and equipment. We took a policy decision to make things only out of aluminum despite the challenges. No easy way out. Today it has paid off.

Getting permission on the road is only because each and every thing as per govt rules is followed strictly in order to make EV Retro Fit Kits and certifications have been approved. Refer AIS 123 Part 3 for complete spec details.

Regarding the Electronics and software, we have been working on it since the past 3-4 years. Sufficient validation has been done from our end, however we are testing now by providing our products to professional testing agencies before we roll it out in the kit.

We intend to make it into sellable kits, but nothing concrete planned yet.
Legal Paperwork is not an issue. There are necessary provisions in the CMVR.

The problem with PHEV is that the system has to be designed from scratch. If at all an EV powertrain is designed to be fitted along with the engine, the engine itself has to be downsized to begin with. Else you are wasting a lot of energy in just carrying around all the extra weight and both the systems (Fuel and EV) will be less efficient. Not to mention having an overloaded vehicle as well affecting dynamic stability, safety, and much more. So No. Retro fit kits cannot be made into Hybrid options. Anyone doing so will just end up wasting a lot of time and effort and end up back on square 1. Been there, Done that, scrapped it.

Originally Posted by S2K

This is fantastic!!
And hugely motivating too!!
I see your location is Pune. I being based in Mumbai, would like to be part of your next your current and next projects. Is there any way I can be?

Youre most welcome to visit us at our facility any time with atleast 1 day prior appointment.

Originally Posted by Digital Vampire

Huge congratulations Stuntfreak and your team behind this - This is probably the best EV Conversion I've come across in India, period!

You folks truly have the potential to become the "EV West" of India and beyond

If I may ask, by any chance, are you sourcing the motor from India OR is it imported?
Just curious since I've been babying this dream of converting my ageing 4WD Hyundai Tucson to EV almost forever but the import costs and hassles were a total turnoff!
Your projects are sort of rekindling the hope within!

Thank a lot for your kind words. We have developed everything inhouse. Yes we have used a lot of imported stuff for benchmarking and stuff, but as of now, we do manufacture everything ourselves. Not in serial production yet, but small qty, yes. You can buy the necessary stuff from our website to build your own EV.

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Stuntfreak, that's excellent work. Look so OEM. Anyone who is not much into cars would think this is assembly-line built. Is a car so made RTO/Insurance compliant? And, why did you buy a Nexon EV? I mean you have the wherewithal to make an EV yourself.

Can an ICE torque converter be converted into EV retaining the TC gearbox? Does RTO approve of it and issue an RC?

Thanks a lot. The intention was to make it OEM Like. Everything is designed keeping in mind all the necessary norms and crash safety. Yes its RTO and Insurance compliant. Nexon EV is my Daily drive. Plus I keep enhancing it from time to time.. Yes you can convert a TC GB to EV and change the login on the lock up clutch. RTO Will grant the appropriate permissions post inspection of the vehicle and certification from an agency such as ARAI / ICAT.

Originally Posted by sajaijayan

Absolutely fantastic effort. Wishing you all the success and hope EV conversions also take off in a great way. With efforts such as yours, I am sure this will happen in the very near future.

A design suited to Indian conditions and requirements is the need of the hour in India and kudos to you in enabling that.

Thanks a lot.

Originally Posted by eyeman

Congratulations stuntfreak. This looks amazing. I am a great fan of the EV revolution, but in India it looks like EVs are going to be overpriced for some time. An excellent solution ill be what you have done. Would you mind sharing the approximate cost? Do you have any plans for going commercial? Larger volumes will bring the cost down surely? I have a 13 year old SX4 as well as an 8 year old Accord. I would love to convert these if it can be done with legal approval.

Converting old vehicles is not the aim here. As Building EVs is NOT Cheap contrary to what most people think. You can convert, but costing will be quite high. Makes more sense to just buy BS4 Dead stock vehicles at dirt cheap price and convert it.

Originally Posted by shibu

Brilliant work and near OEM finish.

Have you changed the drive shafts to take in 850nm or are they OEM?

OEM. Standard GB and Driveshafts are capable of handling upto 1000 nm at the wheel.

Originally Posted by HornNotOkPlease

You have undertaken a mammoth job altogether and the specs are just awesome, I couldn’t make it from pics but have you designed a battery pack structure which bolts on or how are you fitting the battery clusters to the body? I am curious in that case how are you maintaining the battery temperature? The heat profile of different battery clustered would degrade the clusters differently and it would eventually be a tough task to balance them.

Considering how much OEMs spend on r&d in developing the BMS, it a commendable effort if you have them developed in-house

Hello. Good questions. We have reverse engineered the Chassis, and utilized all the original mountings provided by the chassis to avoid any type of drilling, cutting, welding, and have distributed load of the entire product as per BIW Design. We have not released the battery pictures as that's where the entire heart of the product is. Battery cooling is done via a Chilled liquid cooled system and a Electric waterpump. Our BMS Manages the cooling system based on the temp sensors placed on each banks. Active balancing is not done. Only while Charging. Balancing current is max 1A. But since its done on a regular basis, it is maintained.

Originally Posted by rosh_aveo1.4

Dude that was amazing. To think all of us have the option to convert our cars to EV rather than buy the expensive ones is clearly a game changer. Would love to know the cost. And do we get to choose like a bigger motor for more cash vs smaller ones or so?

Yes we have developed much more powerful motors also. 250 nm with 11000 RPM output.. You can check it out on my website.

Originally Posted by starke

Superb work Stuntfreak. Myself coming from lots of retro-fitment & EV background, this is very interesting work.

The confusing part is the range of 250 km from an 18 kWh battery, the consumption will round to about ~ 72 Wh/km which is the lowest I have ever seen. (I have all the data of almost all EVs around the globe and the competitive value I could fetch is 110 ). Even if the gearbox could help the latter ratio of motor rpm to the wheel, the efficiency drop of 10% is minimum to be considered. The energy density will also not help as the chemistry you mentioned is LFP, not NMC. Very much interested to know the background of this

Apart from this, this is exhibiting high-level craftsmanship as the packaging and integration are very near to OEM level. Definitely, this is not a hobby team as I know how complex it is to develop a system from scratch if made in-house.

If you can figure out the homologation part, you could do this officially and can drive/sell the vehicle in public roads.

All the best and hope we can see more of these in the future.

Hi. Good question. Achieving such low energy consumption purely was an 'optimization game' for us. And believe me, having a gearbox is half the magic. Apart from this, our motors are developing higher torque than the ones available in the market with lower power consumption. But Having a gearbox really really really changes the game. Also Efficiency drop is not 10% extra. Because any motor on an EV uses at least a single speed transmission already introducing quite a loss. A multi speed transmission can add at the most 3% more on top of this. We have tried NMC, as well. Stuck to LFP for safety risk of NMC.

Originally Posted by sramanat

Great work! Can this kind of conversion/consulting be done for others? If so, what would be the price involved in such a conversion? An older friend owns 12-15 classic cars in different states of disrepair (5 mercedes, a vw beetle with rear engine, a land rover with spare wheel on the bonet, a volvo etc.). If the mood strikes him, he tries to restore one and stops midway due to parts being unavailable. I am going to show this thread to him.

EV Conversion can be done to any and all vehicles, but the cost of certification and time taken per model is a considerable. If your friend has the right resources to get it done, its worth the efforts.

Originally Posted by NPV

Why not do a planned restoration of these classic cars ? It's definitely possible if one has the time, money and right people. You should probably point your friend to the team BHP classic car restoration threads, look at some by @Kartikeyal

Converting these old classics to EVs doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

Sounds good to me too, but I dont have the funds, team, patience, and setup necessary to execute it. If anyone is interested in setting it up, I can provide the necessary powertrain components.

Originally Posted by sramanat

When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. . I am kind of sold on the premise of stuntfreak's post - that of an affordable and standardized EV conversion kit. The same reason I love the Tata Nexon EV.
As far my friend's collection, until about 5 years back, he used to take the cars to classic shows, so I guess most of them can be up and running with minor repairs. For those in Bangalore and interested, The Whitefield Club in Bangalore has many members with classic cars. They had a show 2-3 years back. I've seen another of my neighbor drive a 1950s MG convertible when the weather is good.

That said, it is a long pending task on my part to catalog and post my friend's collection here. I will try to do it this weekend.

Amazing.

Originally Posted by SS80

I have suggestion, not sure how feasible it would be. If you can add a diesel engine (tiny one like below) and pair it up with a 70~90amp alternator and place it in boot with exhaust pipe exiting under the vehicle. This would help the owner to charge the vehicle in remote places and takes care of range anxiety too.

On long highway drives, when we park the car for 30-45mins for a chai or meal break, the engine can run (start it through app) and charge the battery to some extent.

Attachment 2113998

Been there, Done that, cannot do it any more. Unviable, BS6 norms cause an issue. EV Powertrain becomes too inefficient carrying around all that weight. More polluting that charging on a power grid..

Cheers

[stuntfreak]

Originally Posted by AlQuazi

Congratulations! That is some amazing work on the EV!

Are you sure this is right? Something seems off in the specs.

Let me explain my doubts - 15 kW translates to 21 odd bhp from the motor which is the realm of 200-250cc motorcycles.

With this kind of power and a 200 kg GVW, these vehicles struggle to touch 120 km/h, whereas you're claiming a 160 km/h top speed on a vehicle 5 times that weight!

I think this is most likely a typo that needs to be corrected.

Either that, or you've managed to break some laws of physics!

This definitely doesn't take away the fact that you've managed to out-do the OEMs in this race!

Congratulations once again!

Over my years of work, I have faced many people, who dont invest even one rupee or one minute worth of efforts, time, investment, experiments, but still claim to know everything by just reading books and specs online. I am not saying you are one of them, but many others will pop up with pessimism trying to challenge the results instead of complimenting the product and waste my time. So I have decided not to debate over any topic, with anyone, and let the test certificate do the talking. Please Find attached our Motor's test certificate with the required results which may answer all your questions. Please note that I have intentionally blanked out many areas not applicable to your Questions in the certificate so as to avoid misuse by anyone. Please see the Red Circled area. Also to clarify, Motor and Engine Power are two completely different things. Please do understand that what matters at the end of the day is, Torque. PFA our attached certified torque spec, which we are further over clocking by programming.

Hope you consider this reply positively.

Cheers brother.

Originally Posted by smsrini

This is an interesting thread and kudos to your efforts.

There is a growing interest to convert some of the classic cars like a VW beetle, a VW baywindow bus or a Mercedes W124 e class to electric powertrains to keep alive these cars. Hopefully such efforts will bear fruit in offering commercial conversions for the classics.

regards
Srinivas

I can provide the entire powertrain solution for such lovely projects. If anyone would like to take the leadership in this, It would be a pleasure indeed to get started!

Originally Posted by starke

He has mentioned 15 kW & 35 kW peak, means the 15 kW stands as nominal.

Considering the torque availability from 0 rpm and the rpm of motor combined with the gearbox (which is unconventional among EVs), the motor can achieve some rpm around 6k to 8k with the help of 5th or overdrive 6th can translate the similar wheel rpm as an engine. But keep in mind the current drawn and heat generated at this speed will be so high ( ~ 150A + if system voltage is around 250V ) , so this 160 kmph is possible, but strongly not suggested

Thanks for your support. Youre quite close to our setup, but not entirely there.. But great estimation. And once again, thanks for logically evaluating the product before any skepticism.

Cheers

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by stuntfreak

EV Conversion can be done to any and all vehicles, but the cost of certification and time taken per model is a considerable. If your friend has the right resources to get it done, its worth the efforts.

Oh, so you are not planning to do EV conversions then. I thought that you had converted your Swift for that reason, as to showcase and experiment with conversions. Can you share what are your plans then and what products/services are you planning to offer.

[stuntfreak]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Oh, so you are not planning to do EV conversions then. I thought that you had converted your Swift for that reason, as to showcase and experiment with conversions. Can you share what are your plans then and what products/services are you planning to offer.

Only Swift Dzire. No other Model as of now.

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by stuntfreak

Only Swift Dzire. No other Model as of now.

Got it. And as you have said above, you are willing to sell powertrain components to others as well. On that line of thought, do you plan on having kits/components for lower power as well. I will be very keen to making a small electric ATV for use at my farm. And good thing about that will be that it can be designed from the ground up as an electric vehicle and there won't be any requirements of certifications or approvals from the govt as it is only meant to be used for small farm chores.

[Mortis]

Awesome project and execution ! As a fellow Dzire owner I may just opt for your services down the line.
Also would you be able to make a 48V mild hybrid system ? Basically just some torque and efficiency boosting without any all electric range