[audioholic]

Originally Posted by LeoRBK

Similarly for India as I am sure you will be aware, seems like Toyota will rebadge Suzuki products.

What can only be speculation on my part, I think EV development may follow the same suit? i.e. EV based on Suzuki platforms in India and Toyota platforms for EU.

The only feasible technology to bring in would be PHEV and BEV.

So Suzuki is taking the right steps to introducing BEV in a Wagon-R. Why should they be aggressive with its development? What is the incentive for them? There is no competition, no new players will bring in BEVs in volume sales segments in the near future.

The resulting product will be at a price point that will only make sense for EV enthusiasts to buy, so they are not looking at volume sales in immediate future. To bring the costs closer to the current crop of fossil fuel cars localization of the supply chain needs to happen, but who has set up the roadmap for doing it? I do not think Suzuki has the resources to do it.

Few more thoughts from my side based on your observations. You are right in saying that there is a lot of things happening with the collaboration with Toyota. For European markets, this was needed. Now in the European markets, Suzuki had and has been doing a lot more in terms of technology and innovation compared to what happens in the Indian market. The same cars in Europe get better powertrain, safety features and equipment compared to India. Hence, if they have launched cars like A-Cross in Europe, I can only wish that they do it in India as well. But given how Maruti is conservative, I dont think that would happen.

When Tata can offer a Nexon EV, MG ZS, what stops the Market leader from showing the way and getting an EV sooner than 2025? Being the market leader, they can promise better volumes to suppliers, which would get them pricing advantage in return and which in turn, due to the reach of MSIL in the country promise a better response from customers. The AMT technology was first introduced by Maruti in India, and at a time when automatic transmissions werent so popular as a choice. But after Maruti started selling AMT cars, the demand went up and it became a popular choice, in spite of it not being a good choice in terms of driveability.

Ideally, I would have expected a WagonR EV by now in the market. Or at least by the end of this year. When Maruti could make use of the FAME subsidy by passing off its SHVS as a hybrid, it would not let go of the EV concessions too. And no one can push for changes in supply chain/vendors as good as Maruti can.

Forget the smaller cars. But the flagship cars like Ciaz, XL6 and the S-Cross badly need better powertrain(towards at least providing a hybrid as an option) and an electric counterpart. That can trickle down to small cars later since thats going to be price sensitive. But it pains to see that nothing much seems to be happening in that direction.

[GeeTee TSI]

Maruti probably looks at a threshold volume for a business case, they simply don't sell a model which doesn't cut it.

Notwithstanding their market leader position, just don't expect any leadership traits like revolutionising the market or a first move and then it all falls in place

[Jhinchak]

Maybe Maruti is launching a completely new car and not just An EV variant of their existing car. Perhaps they will test the waters with the WagonR EV and use the feedback of that car towards the development of this new EV.

[LeoRBK]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Few more thoughts from my side based on your observations. You are right in saying that there is a lot of things happening with the collaboration with Toyota. For European markets, this was needed. Now in the European markets, Suzuki had and has been doing a lot more in terms of technology and innovation compared to what happens in the Indian market. The same cars in Europe get better powertrain, safety features and equipment compared to India. Hence, if they have launched cars like A-Cross in Europe, I can only wish that they do it in India as well. But given how Maruti is conservative, I dont think that would happen.

When Tata can offer a Nexon EV, MG ZS, what stops the Market leader from showing the way and getting an EV sooner than 2025? Being the market leader, they can promise better volumes to suppliers, which would get them pricing advantage in return and which in turn, due to the reach of MSIL in the country promise a better response from customers. The AMT technology was first introduced by Maruti in India, and at a time when automatic transmissions werent so popular as a choice. But after Maruti started selling AMT cars, the demand went up and it became a popular choice, in spite of it not being a good choice in terms of driveability.

Ideally, I would have expected a WagonR EV by now in the market. Or at least by the end of this year. When Maruti could make use of the FAME subsidy by passing off its SHVS as a hybrid, it would not let go of the EV concessions too. And no one can push for changes in supply chain/vendors as good as Maruti can.

Forget the smaller cars. But the flagship cars like Ciaz, XL6 and the S-Cross badly need better powertrain(towards at least providing a hybrid as an option) and an electric counterpart. That can trickle down to small cars later since thats going to be price sensitive. But it pains to see that nothing much seems to be happening in that direction.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
You would not want to call Suzuki Europe innovative by any standards. They offer better engines and more kits simply because they can price the car much higher here than in India. As a reference the base model swift is sold for 13000 GBP.
I assume Suzuki will not launch rebadged Toyota products as they do not make sense. You cannot make them cheap enough. You might recall that Toyota had to create new low cost platforms for India which delivered the Etios series.
On the point of showing the way, for electrics this is not a competition on who builds it first. Tata might have already nailed it.
Mass producing BEV needs massive investment. A lot of components need to be imported and our tax structures are counter productive.
I have read somewhere that since the FAME scheme was started only 500 out of 10,000 odd crores have been spent(might have to do with pandemic). So where will the localisation come from?

If the priority is to switch to green cars, import relaxation should be provided for components. In my view fully built cars should also be allowed to enter market with low import duties as long as they are battery powered.
Simulatenously a plan for local manufacturing and roadmap for transition from imports to 'made in India' needs to be put in place.

Presently, I do not see any EV policy which focuses on rapid transition. They are focused around Make in India pitch. I will be not surprised if automotive lobby in India (the MS, Mahindra and likes) are dictating these policies. There are no non governmental organizations vocalyly lobbying for green sector or green vehicle.

[Carpainter]

While I agree with the fact that being the market leader Suzuki should be more proactive and bring in a BEV sooner than 2025, I also kind of agree with their policy as it seems they don't want to play the adaptation game and they want to enter EV segment only when the segment is more matured and not just a lifestyle vehicle that can sell a max 1000-1500 units a month. They're a volume player and may be they think with low volume they can't get the advantage from the supplier side.

Also, I highly doubt that people will start buying BEVs left and right if Suzuki launch it in this year or next. For mass adaptation to this new technology you need to have the infrastructure, the will from government and trust or reliability in the product because not many can plunge a million rupee on a prototype that can go wrong anytime. So because of the infrastructure and also because of the reliability issue including range anxiety I think India's EV adaptation is a long drawn game and not a T20 match. Our governments can make weird odd even rules or illogical vehicle scrappage policy but when it comes to creating infrastructure for EV, they move at a snail's speed.So may be they're right to wait for the market to mature and respond before they jump in.

[ChandraSekarMN]

Against the popular opinion that it's a mistake from MS to be late, I agree to the view that MS is seeing something ahead of what we commoners see/ perceive. Currently MS is more of a Volume Player than a Value Player (read it low cost than high margin products). With their 'finger on pulse' strategy for Indian (mass) market, they usually aim for reaching minimum monthly numbers to be equivalent or more than the entire competition number put together. So with current indicators, the affordability factor for EV (in terms of ownership cost and Infra for charging)is expected to reach mass markets in about 3/4 years - precisely when MS would be waiting with a mutiproduct portfolio to retain the market leadership. I can only hope that this theory turns true.

[shortbread]

Suzuki India, a weed that occupies 50% of the field with nothing productive to show for it. Basically suffocates the Indian auto sector leading to continuous exit of majors from the market.

Saying we will launch a product after 4 years is good as saying we wont be launching it at all.

In the mean time they will pressurise the govt. by whatever means possible to promote small petrol powered tin boxes. Look at all the innovation being pushed by each countries largest car makers, US - GM & Ford, Korea - Hyundai/KIA, China - Geeley, BYD, SIAC, France - Peugeot/Renault!

Here India is stuck with this. A company that was promoted and help founded by the govt. 4 decades ago ultimately giving it a 50% market share. What does the nation have to show for it, an EV by 2025!

[docelectric2020]

Originally Posted by Carpainter

While I agree with the fact that being the market leader Suzuki should be more proactive and bring in a BEV sooner than 2025, I also kind of agree with their policy as it seems they don't want to play the adaptation game and they want to enter EV segment only when the segment is more matured and not just a lifestyle vehicle that can sell a max 1000-1500 units a month.
====
So may be they're right to wait for the market to mature and respond before they jump in.

Totally agree.
This wait and watch strategy maybe jus the right option for now to assess and jump in when the time is right with the EV market in terms of demand and charging Infrastructure.

This will also give Suzuki more time for R&D in Battery technology which is rapidly evolving.
As the Indian EV scenario is still a non-mature business, I think Suzuki doesn't want to prove innovation and claim "First of its kind" rather they are waiting and targeting sales stability.

[Naetik30]

Why exactly are so many BHPians surprised at this news? Was anyone expecting Suzuki to be a leader in Battery Technology or for that matter any technology/innovation?

I always think of it this way. Suzuki India is the Salman Khan of Indian Auto. They exactly know what their strong points are and exactly know who their target customer and what they expect. And they deliver it with a bang everytime.

No one should expect Salman Khan to turn to a Fahad Fasil or Amir khan. They will continue to be Bhai and there is a reason for it.

[volkman10]

Suzuki And Daihatsu Join Toyota In Commercial Japan Partnership EV Venture:

The partnership will lead to the increased use of hybrid and all-electric powertrains across the small and commercial vehicle segments that Daihatsu and Suzuki specialize in.



The two car manufacturers confirmed in a statement that they will each acquire a 10 per cent stake in the joint venture, the same stake as Isuzu Motors and Hino Motors. Toyota owns the remaining 60 per cent of the venture.

Toyota president Akio Toyoda :

With Suzuki and Daihatsu joining the project and working together, we’ll be able to expand our circle of cooperation to not only cover commercial vehicles but also mini vehicles.

Suzuki president Toshihiro Suzuki:

Our mission is to bring to market minivehicles that are affordable and contribute to carbon neutrality and to continue to be an indispensable part of our customers’ lives

However, accomplishing this mission on our own would be very difficult. The whole of society must work toward the same goal to achieve it. Daihatsu felt the same way, and we had been discussing what we could do together. During such, Toyota approached us and invited us to work together to maintain Japan’s lifelines. Because the philosophy and purpose of CJP resonated with us, we decided to join the project

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFZf...torCorporation

The joint venture, dubbed the Commercial Japan Partnership (CJP), was established in April 2021 and has three main aims.
To improve logistics efficiency by building a connected-technology infrastructure that links truck logistics with mini-commercial vehicles, expand the use of advanced safety technologies across commercial and mini-vehicles, and cooperate on the use of technologies for the electrification of affordable, high-quality mini-vehicles.

Source:

[Emvi]

Maruti Suzuki to launch EVs ONLY AFTER 2025: Bhargava

"Unfortunately, we will not feel happy if we can (sell) 300 or 400 or 500 or even 1,000 cars (a month).
"For some reason we have gone too much higher volumes, and volumes in 100s and even 1,000s, are very good, but they leave us a little unexcited...So we have to see if I start selling EVs I would like to sell maybe 10,000 EVs in a month or something like that," Bhargava said.

News Link

[Shresth_EV]

I hope they realise that everything starts small. Even today’s EV giants like Tesla, BYD and so on didn’t reach the sales figures they have today, overnight.

The original iPhone sold just 1.4M units in 2007. In 2017, just a decade later, sales were in excess of 200M units per annum.

Tata sold 2600 EVs in 2020, but in past three months (Aug-Sept-Oct), they’ve sold more EVs than they did in all of 2020.

If Maruti thinks they can waltz in with a new EV and scoop away 10K sales in very first month, they have serious reality checks to perform.

[AROO7]

That's an arrogant answer to sorry we don't have the R&D competency to bring cheaper EVs before 2025. Agreed Maruti's profit margin anchors on volume but that statement shows how much the company takes the Indian consumer for granted. Instead of giving proper EVs, they have been shamefully peddling Smart Hybrid which is neither smart nor hybrid in the first place.

IMHO it now rests on us consumers to make the MSIL and Suzuki Japan realize what it means to take us for granted and keep flooding our market with cheap, unsafe, and cars with dated technology (Yes that's you 4-Speed AT being plonked in a 21st-century car).

[anjan_c2007]

It calls for Mr Bhargava's retirement as he is cocooned from the real world and what he once was, he no more is. Perhaps it could be due to his age and maybe senility too. MSIL' s parent too does not have any EV technology worth its salt and the closest MSIL may hope is to piggyback ride on Toyota's EV's by 2025.

Almost every well known small car maker has launched one or more EV models as will be evident from the Autocar, UK's Top Ten EV list of small cars. Brand Suzuki is missed. Peugeot, Mini, Vauxhall, BMW (2 models), Honda, Mazda, Volkswagen, Renault (2 models) are all in the Top Ten :-

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/b...-electric-cars

[volkman10]

JFE STEEL AND SUZUKI DEVELOP BATTERY-PROTECTED BODY STRUCTURE USING STEEL PLATE TO REDUCE THE WEIGHT OF EV BODY STRUCTURE:

electric vehicles will have large batteries at the bottom of the vehicle body, requiring a battery pack and body structure to protect the battery cells in the event of a collision. aluminum is generally used as a structural member, but since the plate thickness must be thickened to ensure strength, weight reduction of the battery protection member has been a problem.

In development, JFE Steel's "JFE Topology optimization technology" was utilized in the design of the battery protection section to evaluate the collision performance during pole side thrusts where the load on the battery is particularly large. By optimally placing various ultra-high tens often on structural members, the company aims to achieve a significant weight reduction in the battery protection member while satisfying the collision performance without using aluminum.

JFE Topology optimization technology incorporates the design space (space for placing parts) as a part of the car body and analyzes it, so that load transmission to each part of the car body can be accurately reflected in the body structure, so collision performance can be efficiently improved with less weight. Although it has contributed to the optimization of the joint position and shape of various parts, it is the first case to be applied to the optimization of the battery protection body structure made of steel plate.

Link