[sen2693]

Lot of arguing here if EVs are environment friendly are not. But we are missing one point - is it cheaper on the consumer's pocket or not. Because a lot many consumers will focus on that aspect of the car that being environment friendly. Let's be honest, if people were so environment conscious then the world would be a different place. Bitter truth is we care more about being economical than being environment friendly.

So as and when cheaper EVs come and people get educated that maintaining an EV would be cheaper than an ICE car in long run, surely the shift will happen. There a lot many cars which rarely intend to go out on highways and are more focused on making short runs inside their city/rural area and thus would not bother with range anxiety.

I also do not see what would stop cab services to move to EVs in future. With enough charging points they can easily charge their cars when they are idle and waiting for a ride. If the ride fares are not dropped when moving to EVs, then less maintenance would mean more profit with same fare. Plus given the mileage they achieve in a day, it should not take too long to recover the cost of paying extra for an EV as compared to ICE

[SKC-auto]

@sri_tesla, @shresth_ev and others, your posts are long and fact based, no one reads here, it's easy and effortless to shout pseudo environmentalists. Most of them already formed an opinion about EVs after reading a single junk article 5 years back.

The one and only advantage H2 cars give is faster refuelling times, even that can be managed in an EV if you plan well before your once or twice in a year road trip.

EVs is not the solution for hunger, racism, the "pseudo environmentalists" are also working in all areas of their expertise, just that you read only car news, and we mostly discuss about car related topics here.

I do not understand the hatred towards environmentalists( every industry has few bad apples), is it a herd mentality or does it look cool.

I guess in today's world there are no environmentalists all are pseudo environmentalists, hope we all enjoy a better world with lesser droughts and floods, no one even imagine to say a thank you to them, because no one thinks we were saved from the brink of disaster.

Disclaimer: I am thankful to people who call me pseudo environmentalist, I am also proud of Greta Thunberg. This is a forum, the forum has given me access to share my opinions, no need to suggest me what and where to post, if I cross the forums rules I may be banned.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by vredesbyrd

God bless Toyota!

I hoped more companies were focused on this than going all out to get neutered by EV adoption (especially the Big 3)

I am glad that such a major manufacturer is still thinking logically

Toyota is investing $13 BILLION into it's EV operations. SO make no mistake Toyota is focussing on EVs as well. They already have their electric platform e-TNGA ready.

Their problem is they are very late to the party. Getting the manufacturing ecosystem in place for the kind of volumes they will need to stay competitive will take time.

So what Toyota is saying is, 'Please wait for me while I catch up!'

[Kelvinator]

I think it can be said without a doubt that EV's are the future and they are most definitely environmentally friendlier than IC vehicles. IC vehicles has nearly reached it's peak, there is limited scope of research left in it. The thermal efficiency of an IC engine is nearly 65-70 percent in best cases and it depends on a lot of factors. EV's are still in the starting stage of development. We can always have density batteries in the future giving us more range output in terms of distance covered. Currently it is Lithium based, probably 20 yrs from now it will be solid state batteries, maybe 40 yrs down the line we might have some other tech, but ICE's are done for good. Think of it as how CD's replaced floppy disks and pendrives replaced CD's and now SSD's are current standard storage devices, same thing will happen in the sphere of batteries as well.

On the policy making front, in the next 5-10 yrs we can expect a lot of changes:
1. We will probably only have EV based autos and taxis for at-least intracity travels.
2. The delivery based companies like Ola, Uber, Zomato, Swiggy, dunzo etc will definitely move to EV. With Ola producing their own vehicles now, it is bound to happen in probably a couple of years.
3. The Indian Government is very serious about EV adoption. They want all govt officials to use EV vehicles. https://www.financialexpress.com/aut...rging/2197946/
4. Most of the fuel which is being used in India is imported. Electricity is something which we can produce in large quantities.
5. No expiration age of EV's. Currently 10 yrs for a diesel vehicle in Delhi. Can theoretically use it for 20-30 yrs.

[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

The one and only advantage H2 cars give is faster refuelling times, even that can be managed in an EV if you plan well before your once or twice in a year road trip.

I have no personal beef with H2. I’m all in to make diesel locomotives/intercity buses/Semis to H2 FCEV.

For short distance city travel, cars and buses, light trucks like Tata Ace, Electric has the efficiency and space advantage.

On a truck/bus/loco, there’s less of a space constraint than a small car like Nexon or Altroz. The weight of payload = profit. So H2 is highly preferable for that. Trains, bus and trucks can also do away with fewer filling stations at major depots.

It’s the same thing as forcing phones to use Intel Xeon CPUs. The efficiency needed there is not possible with H2.

The fields that can benefit from H2 are being left behind, with unnecessary stubborn-ness to go H2 on cars.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Shresth_EV

I have no personal beef with H2. I’m all in to make diesel locomotives/intercity buses/Semis to H2 FCEV.

The fields that can benefit from H2 are being left behind, with unnecessary stubborn-ness to go H2 on cars.

I too believe H2 has a place in shipping, aviation and decarbonizing other industrial production like steel etc, it has no place in land transport.

H2 wastes 70% energy to make, imagine the scale renewable energy is needed. Better to use H2 in applications where weight is a significant problem.

[mohanphadnis]

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

If people are hoping for EVs to never catch up and ICE vehicles will live forever, then they need to wake up.

There are still folks who crave for the horses, and will tell you :- "Horseback riding is the correct way to travel, and cars will never give you the same thrill"
I have to agree, that is an absolutely correct statement, but now horse riding is either done ceremonially or for sports, or some boundary condition. Same thing will happen to ICE vehicles.

[Bibendum90949]

It's all influence of your partner

Maruti going big again on CNG and Toyota still betting big on hydrogen when the writing is pretty clear on the EV wall.

When Maruti couldn't make diesel cars, they rooted for petrol cars and now Toyota instead of embarking on the fast growing EV space are going behind hydrogen powered cars owing to their huge investment in that tech.

A perfect marriage! Both think alike now and both reluctant to move with the times and embrace newer technologies.Only time will tell where they would end up.

[COMMUTER]

It is really heartening to see Toyota seeing through the BS(Bharath Stooge) agenda forwarded by environMentalists. None of these agenda driven pawns haven't as much as murmured in the direction of China against the pollution that takes place there in manufacturing of the batteries amongst a host of other pollutions.

They are just forwarding the cause of the Chinese to take over what remains in manufacturing amongst other nations.

Clean air and green cover are laudable but cancer, diabetes and cardiac ailments are more about processed food than driving priuses.

[superbad]

Looks like someone missed the bus & is now pleading with others to get into a new one.

[ksakotai]

Toyota suing Mexico over fuel efficiency standards??? Look at the arrogance!

Wonder why the sharp opposition to EVs are. AFAIK H2 for consumer use is still very far away. However EV is here. Of course, best would clean charging also. But given present conditions EV seems the best choice. I have a solar setup at home and will use the same for charging. That means true renewable energy.

H2 adoption in India is many many years away. Fuel Stack technology is very nascent. Safety is a BIG factor in the hesitancy.

I know Bosch is making fuel Stack which they are testing for the govt to showcase the technology. But it is still long way off.

[MinivanDriver]

The writing is very much on the wall. Ford F150 going electric is the nail in the coffin for ICE vehicle future in the US car market. Europe already has gathered unstoppable momentum in going the EV way. Public opinion especially in the wake of the emission scandal is irreversibly in favour of EVs. The opposition to burning fossil fuels is so strong that France has a law now banning fossil fuel burning airplane flights for all places that can be reached by trains in 2 hours or less. Having said that, I would be the first one to agree that no technology evolution is quite black and white. Sustainable and clean supply chains for EV production needs to be established. Investment drives technology evolution. Human race can solve any technology challenge once enough commitment is there. Nowhere is this most evident than in the case of the semiconductor industry. As a guy who saw 286s in college lab to working with the latest 256 core GP GPUs now, I am sure EVs will evolve by leaps and bounds and that's the way the world is going.

[n_naik]

Looking at toyota's attitude towards EVs, i feel, soon toyota will go the nokia way. Change is the only constant thing on earth. Those who fail to adapt will have no option but to succumb. I hope toyota wakes up soon and stops making the exactly same mistakes that nokia did.

[landcruiser123]

All we know is ICE bans by 2035 or 2040 in most countries. EVs aren’t still practical in many places - 20% of Californians went back to ICEs. (There’s a thread on TBHP)

All other auto makers are into short term thinking. Some also want to appease governments (especially VW) and wall-street(or its equivalent).

What do I think? Hydrogen is the future of mobility in most cases. BEVs will be restricted to small city only cars, 2 wheelers, and 3 wheelers. Large SUVs, trucks, buses, trains, ships will all be powered by Hydrogen if not for gasoline.

[adkrish22290]

Toyota is clearly in another world. When nearly the entire developed world, as well as developing nations like India, are taking steps in the EV space, they continue to emphasise on older technology such as hybrids or else hydrogen cell vehicles which are expensive and have already been tried in California in USA with negative results.

Whether we like it or not, EVs are here to stay, and with significant improvements in battery tech and range, it will most likely replace the traditional ICE car in the next couple of years in North America and Europe. If Toyota is not going to join the EV revolution, then goodbye to them in advance. I don't see them lasting beyond the next 25-30 years as they will definitely go the Nokia way, who refused to adopt Android and went for the failed Windows Phone OS instead.