[sri_tesla]

Tata Motors announced that they crossed a sales milestone of 10,000 EVs. Tata has a 70% market share in EVs in the year to date FY22. Tata Power claims to have ramped up the charging infrastructure with over 700 installations in 120 cities across India.

Source:
https://www.livemint.com/auto-news/t...462746089.html

[officer416]

Tata is making records in India with its EV sales and some here are complaining that its first generation products are unreliable. What an irony. The EV threads are becoming somewhat like Android vs iPhone debates.
Congrats to Tata for such a great effort with its EV line up.

[ashking101]

This is a very good head start for TaMo in the EV domain. It will be good for consumers, if other car makers in India, very importantly Maruti Suzuki, start thinking towards EVs and create the infrastructure to support electric mobility.

Read today in an article that both Tata and Mahindra are more inclined towards EVs than hybrids.

Source: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...-chiefs-422163

[EmpyreanKnight]

Congratulations to TATA motors for taking this initiative and on achieving this milestone.

Originally Posted by officer416

Tata is making records in India with its EV sales and some here are complaining that its first generation products are unreliable. What an irony. The EV threads are becoming somewhat like Android vs iPhone debates.
Congrats to Tata for such a great effort with its EV line up.

I am happy that TATA Motors have taken this initiative, but I too think that the first generation products, specially when introducing a new segment should be reliable. I am a prospective customer of Nexon EV but looking at issues which customer are facing I am afraid to take that leap of faith & be a beta tester even after spending more than a million rupees, reference video below

https://youtu.be/EEzQfHhQ_cE

Hope they rectify these issues with new EV products that are being launched, I believe user experience is the key factor in achieving success in any industry.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by EmpyreanKnight

I am happy that TATA Motors have taken this initiative, but I too think that the first generation products, specially when introducing a new segment should be reliable. I am a prospective customer of Nexon EV but looking at issues which customer are facing I am afraid to take that leap of faith & be a beta tester even after spending more than a million rupees, reference video below

Hope they rectify these issues with new EV products that are being launched, I believe user experience is the key factor in achieving success in any industry.

Being a Nexon EV owner myself I believe people have exaggerated some issues. When a company sells lot of cars, some may bound to have issues and its with every car. Ford Eco Sport BS6 has issues with its DPF filter, Hyundai Creta had its own DCT failures and so on. You can find videos for those as well on youtube.
If the car had such reliability issues, then it won't be selling numbers it is. Because word spreads quickly when cars are known to have severe reliability issues. The actual owners rave about the product, no matter its on YouTube or on the forums. But those reviews are not posted where actual owners are sharing their experience.
It's some people who don't own the vehicle pushing negative narrative when they fully don't understand the vehicle themselves. Some will quote wrong charging figures, some will quote range that even if you drive in sports mode you will get more than that.

Most importantly, "User Experience" for vast majority of actual owners has been great, that is why its doing the sales numbers its doing. Can't say that about those few people who are not owners but are assuming things and spreading negativity.

[EmpyreanKnight]

Originally Posted by officer416

Being a Nexon EV owner myself I believe people have exaggerated some issues. When a company sells lot of cars, some may bound to have issues and its with every car. Ford Eco Sport BS6 has issues with its DPF filter, Hyundai Creta had its own DCT failures and so on. You can find videos for those as well on Youtube.

Most importantly, "User Experience" for vast majority of actual owners has been great, that is why its doing the sales numbers its doing. Can't say that about those few people who are not owners but are assuming things and spreading negativity.

Well that is really nice to hear that you own a Nexon EV and are happy with it, I agree on exaggerating part and it obviously discourages prospective buyers, even I have heard many positive reviews and I am tempted to buy it, but after seeing Issues which people have faced I am staying away from it, also Gagan Chaudary is not someone who is a biased reviewer and I regularly watch his videos, l will take his word seriously when making a purchase decision because he brings to the table important points which we tend to ignore or skip when we are excited about a product. I think we need a neutral prospective that’s where these reviewers come in, then its finally upto buyer to decide what positive and what negatives he/she is ok to live with (since no car is perfect).

You as a happy owner will have a positive outlook and someone who has had troubles with car may have different things to say.

when I meant user experience, it is not limited to a how a product is, it starts from your first visit to showroom (product websites are also part of this).
I visited to MG showroom and then I visited to TATA showroom both for a EV test drive, you can guess what is my user experience at both outlets.

Anyways I am going off topic, I will conclude my opinion by saying that, bringing negative aspects of a product which actual owners have faced, to a forum where people seek advice is equally important for a informed decision.

[Aditya]

Tata Motors electric car sales cross the 10,000 unit mark - Posts moved to a new thread.

[ohaak]

Originally Posted by EmpyreanKnight

I am a prospective customer of Nexon EV but looking at issues which customer are facing I am afraid to take that leap of faith & be a beta tester even after spending more than a million rupee

What is the issue that is serious in the video? Range update is shown on dashboard after 10 mins of driving with a/c off or a/c on? Software needs to be more fancier? These are simple things that can be worked around. The vehicle itself is fine and Tata is providing regular firmware updates where it matters. It will take a while to get the maturity up, but you are not on version 1.0. A colleague has purchased this and he is happy with it for the past five months or so.

[EmpyreanKnight]

Originally Posted by ohaak

What is the issue that is serious in the video? Range update is shown on dashboard after 10 mins of driving with a/c off or a/c on? Software needs to be more fancier? These are simple things that can be worked around. The vehicle itself is fine and Tata is providing regular firmware updates where it matters. It will take a while to get the maturity up, but you are not on version 1.0. A colleague has purchased this and he is happy with it for the past five months or so.

I never said video highlights serious issue or I see some serious issue with the car.
To name a few issues mentioned in the video (tough none of them are serious, except may be gear changes from D to N while driving, imagine this happening when you are overtaking on a two lane road, hence mentioning it as serious)

• The range shown is not consistent, it drops suddenly even when the vehicle is stationary.
• The gear changes from D to N on its own
• The ORVM fold while driving and signalling the indicator and then refuse to unfold
• Power window switches don’t work sometimes

I have owned & maintained Maruti and Hyundai vehicles up until now and I did not face these basic mechanical issues with them like power window and ORVM not working as intended, like I said in my previous post as well, no car is perfect and it is finally on the buyer to decided what mix of positives and negatives he/she is ok to live with.

To put it in simple terms, I buy a new phone and the physical volume up & down button sometime works and sometime does not, although there is a work around that I can go and change the volume via volume settings in software but I paid for a product that works without a issue, I know car is a far more complicated product but you can’t expect simple things to not work.

As I mentioned earlier, I am very happy that Tata has taken initiative in this space and are succeeding in that but if they sort out these issues in new products that are planned to launch in near future like for example Altoz EV they will have more buyers and less unsatisfied customers.

[Phantom 510]

That's a great achievement by TATA motors. The whole team behind it must be congratulated. I hope TATA motors takes proper initiatives in making the EV infra stronger than what it is at the moment. With more charging stations in place an EV owner would be able to use their EV's in a more
conventional manner without being too stressed about the availability of charging station. Hope to see more exciting products from the maker in the future that will have a good price tag, even better range and performance.

[guru_max]

Tata is doing the right thing in the EV space by launching EVs in multiple segments. But in the medium term it might face some problems due to the depth of EV market. Many buyers of EVs buy just because they're EVs today. More than one product from the same manufacturer can have a cannibalising effect. Again this is not a long term problem. Tata group should have enough resources to cover these short/medium term losses, while making the company a front runner in the long term.

[shortbread]

Reviewing lessons learnt from history, Tata's biggest rival is it's own COMPLACENCY!

They were the first movers and market leaders in multiple segments, diesel hatchbacks, sub 4 sedans, MUVs, SUVs etc... then they fall asleep at the wheel and let the competition walk all over them.

Today they're the undisputed numero uno EV player in India, good! Nonetheless, Tata needs to keep getting better, longer range, more body styles, reducing costs, better quality and reliability etc... Progress must be non-stop.

Unlike previous times TML must be ready this time when the opponent's strike.

If MG is looking to increase production capacity in India, it means they have serious plans for the market and they have good EV engineering prowess and models.

Hyundai is another player poised to pounce when they know the Indian market is ripe for mainstream EV adoption.

New entrants like OLA are also making their plans.

All these players will go big when the time comes, they will not give any time or room for Tata to relax.

So far so good Tata, but the journey has only begun. In 5 years time 10k might look like a really miniscule number for EVs in India. TML must make sure they do not take their foot of the pedal.

[souvikjana83]

While Electric Vehicles are good for the environment, I don't think the current Lithium ion battery powered vehicles are the right products for India. The battery has to be imported and even if development happen in India, still Lithium will be imported as well. So it can never be a mass vehicle on the lines of Alto and Swift. On top of it, the limited range and long charging times makes it unacceptable for highway runs.

There are only 2 ways EVs become popular and widely adopted in India:

1. Car companies make EVs with an additional option of putting a petrol engine as well. And no, the petrol engine should not be used as a generator for the electric motor like in Honda Hybrids. The electric motor should be charged by external cables like EVs so that the car run as a pure EV within cities. And it can run on electricity or petrol on highways when needed and the switch can be done while driving only.

2. We wait till Aluminium Air Battery technology evolves and become commercially available. Aluminium is available in India in plenty. It will significantly bring down the cost. The range is higher and moreover there is no charging needed. Only the aluminium plate needs to be changed which can be done in under 5 mins.

Till then these options not coming to India, EVs will have very few takers.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

While Electric Vehicles are good for the environment, I don't think the current Lithium ion battery powered vehicles are the right products for India. The battery has to be imported and even if development happen in India, still Lithium will be imported as well. So it can never be a mass vehicle on the lines of Alto and Swift. On top of it, the limited range and long charging times makes it unacceptable for highway runs.

Investments are happening for localising battery production which will bring down costs. Battery costs keep falling every passing year.

Every year India imports HUNDERS of BILLIONS of dollars worth of petroleum energy products, which impacts every aspect of the exchequer especially our fiscal deficit.

Lithium imports will be miniscule in comparison because the energy will be produced domestically.

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

1. Car companies make EVs with an additional option of putting a petrol engine as well.

Basically Hybrids, which are slowly falling out of favour as EVs keep improving range. Hybrid was stop gap, why pay and add complexity of both an electric powertrain and an IC engine?

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

2. We wait till Aluminium Air Battery technology evolves and become commercially available. Aluminium is available in India in plenty. It will significantly bring down the cost. The range is higher and moreover there is no charging needed. Only the aluminium plate needs to be changed which can be done in under 5 mins.

A car spends most of it's life stationary. A current Tata EV does give around 200 kms real world range that covers 95% of user needs. How often do people drive more than 200 kms on a daily basis?

In addition, EV ranges keep improving year on year. In 2012 the Model S was rated at 330 odd kms for the base model, today the cheaper Model 3 can be had in a 550+ kms configuration. Lucid is looking to cross 800 kms.

Chargers are getting more powerful and charging tomes faster. Range anxiety is more in the head and people using EVs adapt to their requirements soon enough. Look at all the people comfortably using electric scooters in India.

EV technology is not set in concrete, there is rapid progress being made on a daily basis. In comparison the only aspect of IC engines that is growing at a relative pace is actual fuel prices.

[souvikjana83]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Basically Hybrids, which are slowly falling out of favour as EVs keep improving range. Hybrid was stop gap, why pay and add complexity of both an electric powertrain and an IC engine?

I think you may be talking about the Standard Hybrid which is available in India. So a standard hybrid uses the petrol engine to generate electricity to drive the electric motors which I think was available in Honda Accord and now it will again come in City.

But I am talking about Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicles also called PHEV. In that the battery can be charged externally at home and can be used as a pure electric vehicle for city commutes. For highway runs, it can switch to work as a standard hybrid.

This is a perfect solution IMHO. While I won't be using petrol to drive in city at all since I will be able to recharge the battery at home for my short daily city commutes, but on highway drives, I won't have to wait anywhere to charge my battery for 1-2 hrs. My occasional trips and long drives will be worry free without any range anxiety or longer wait times for charging.

My petrol consumption will be less since I only use petrol while driving for long trips. In fact the overall consumption of petrol will greatly reduce in India.

The EV charging infrastructure on highways is developing quite rapidly but I am sure 99% of people won't be ready to wait 1 hr to charge battery every 200-300 kms.

While on one side, we are making Delhi-Mumbai Expressway where one can reach the 1200 kms distance in 12 hrs, imagine covering that in an EV stopping every 200 kms to charge battery for 1 hr and thereby taking 20-24 hrs to cover the entire distance instead of 12 hrs.

Nope, not at all acceptable to me.