[Siddarth_Ramani]

More than concern, I'm very curious about how battery health will affect the resale prices and resale market as a whole. Battery is a major component of an EV. I wouldn't pick a car with an engine replaced. I know battery is not a mechanical part. But I'm just curious about EV resale. I tried to look at Model 3 in US market as it was an affordable model compared to S. Currently there is no way of knowing since some examples are selling for more than what they have sold for initially. As far as it is OEM replaced in authorised service centre, I'm ok.
But if done right, this can be immensely better. If a Nexon EV can have a more dense and efficient battery 10 years down the line for half the original price, why not? Of course I'm assuming brands will choose to do this instead of their planned obsolescence which will result in higher margins.

[Rocketscience]

Well without a doubt, a resounding yes. I usually don't change anything I own easily and as an example I'am currently happily using my macbook from 2014, which is a 2013 model with zero issues. Zero but one issue, Its original battery swelled up and Apple doesn't provide battery for it at any cost so I had to go from pole to post to get one. (Chinese replacement at cost of original Dell/HP battery because Apple )
I bought cheap oneplus earbuds because they will inevitably fail in 2-3 years, just like original apple airpods would because of this one important quirk in their design, the battery is non replaceable.
A product like this is essentially a small speaker but comes with microphone, processors, bluetooth chip and what not but just the battery failing forces you to throw it all, which works perfectly,away.

You don't need or buy new speakers as often as say a mobile phone but that's how the market is, it is like buying a brand new TV with built in sealed battery fused within the screen and the moment its 500 or so cycles happen, you have to throw it all away, how stupid.

Similarly battery replacements in cars will be a Royal pain in the coming years, sure they are more durable but obviously the lesser cars will use lesser grade batteries, and replacement is, has and will cost a bomb.
Lets compare this with an regular ICE car, my City for example, It has completed its 8 year mark but has just costed me 4.5-5k per year on services, There was one leakage in engine once but thanks to a BHPian it costed pretty negligible to fix. Apart from this there is just brake pads which I have replaced twice costing a total of 5.5k. I don't see why would manufacturers resist from charging atleast this much amount on EVs annual service/checkup, Nexon EV owners can share their service costs.
With that out of the way and even if we keep that service cost at 3k per annum for EVs (Not possible but still) there is a net savings of around 15-20k on Maintainance cost in a decade.
After that time, the engines most likely don't break at all and can comfortably go till 2 lakh KMs without much trouble which is on the higher side of usage. (My car has done just 65k KMs in 8+ years as example)
Batteries on the other hand degrade no matter what but still, lets say I need an overhaul in my City's engine after a decade, what will it cost?

Depending on the severity a max of 1 lakhs or hell 2 lakhs is a reasonable estimate, the battery for such a car would reach north of 7 lakhs today, which, whichever way you look at it is not just shocking but can be downright unaffordable for many, what about Alto or Wagon R owners, will they shell out 3-4 lakhs plus for battery replacement?

Coming to the cost per KM, this is one very desirable trait of EVs, and as a lover of turbo diesels, the torque too is. , I, however can not make sense of EVs at present circumstances at all.

Also the way our government is always increasing prices of petrol and diesel, notwithstanding their input cost, what makes one think that they will not do the same with EVs once they become mainstream? Are we this naïve to believe they will just let that revenue stream go? and we will always enjoy electricity at these rates for charging our cars, well I don't think so. Either they will make it illegal to let us use our domestic connection to charge the cars and install another special meter with expensive electricity for it, or worse, blanket increase in electricity prices for all intents and purposes. (Also factor in the manifold increase in electricity usage in a vast country like India if a lot of people start using EVs)

This will effectively bring the cost/Km near the same ballpark as our current options.

Also this is not a political comment or statement, whoever sits on the PM's seat will likely make the same decision.

On the positive side, lets hope none of this will ever happen, we will get cheaper and better solid state batteries which will easily charge super fast, last for 20 years and then the EVs will make a lot more sense.
Lets see which way the wind blows.

[poloman]

I don't trust the longevity and health progression of batteries, yet. Be mobile or laptop or any device with energy storage, batteries have been the weakest link. I don't know how this can be different in automobiles.

I know the EV batteries are different architecturally, still we are hardwired to expect battery health issues in a matter of few years.
This may change in the future. But i feel the battery tech is not there yet in terms of longevity or reliability like an ICE.

[wildsdi5530]

I'm no expert on EVs and their batteries. They are probably very different from the batteries I've used previously. However I do have concerns about any battery.

Regular NiCd batteries that were used in torches, calling bells, remotes, etc degrade over usage. Initially the torch is bright, but after a few days it becomes dull. Same with remotes, calling bells, etc.

Lithium Po battery is used in my iPhone. When it was brand new, with health at 100%, I got a whole day's life out of it. When it went to 98%, it needs charging every 8-10 hrs. When it fell to 80% it was completely unusable except when connected to a power source. Used to lag even then. Got a new battery from amazon and replaced it. The health was 100% but charging needed every 8-10 hrs. Then developed bulges. Finally got an original battery. Running for 8-10 hrs but still at 100% health. Useable but not like it was when new.

I understand that Auto batteries are very different technology from phone batteries. But I would like to know from current users if the degradation follows an arithmetic progression or geometric. IE.- if 100% means 300kms, does 95% mean 285kms, and does 80% mean 240kms. I don't think so.

And this degradation is very rapid. In ICE cars, the engine will require overhaul after a few lakh kms. Even engine oil degrades only after about 25K kms. (I know service interval for oil change is 5K kms in cars, but it's 1 Lakh kms in trucks). Batteries may go from 100 -> 98% in a few months. If this reduces the range significantly, then I'm worried.

Current EV users, please advise about the real world usage and degradation.

[SnS_12]

Voted NO.

With a 8 year 1.6 lac company warranty the battery going kaput is not the biggest concerns but whether the current buyers would hold on to their vehicles for 8 years from now and especially with the kind of technology upgrades that cars and battery tech is witnessing. So, if one sells the car in say 3-5 years post purchase what is the depreciation that they would be looking at? And whether they will be able to justify the cost of paying additional for an EV over regular ICE model even when you minus the fuel costs that one would incur?

Buying an EV right now would feel like buying a laptop in the 90’s and one could end up loosing money instead of saving.

[SKC-auto]

One thing which amazed me is, Honda is giving 8 years warranty on its new city hybrid. I did not find many concerned, may be because the battery is small and not bothered by the replacement costs.

Remember that the smallish 0.75kwh battery in Honda Hybrid will charge & discharge 30-50 times(within it's limits) for every 100kms while running in Hybrid mode. Compare to say Nexon EV max battery which gets charged & discharged 1 time every 100kms( used between 30-70%).

If Honda Hybrid can charge the battery a 50K times and can give 8 years warranty, an EV battery can simply last for the life of vehicle if you keep the charge between 30-70% for daily use and full usage on occasional road trips. Yes, the range may decrease but also with better infrastructure after 10 years, the decreased range should not be a problem.

[Mustang Sammy]

Originally Posted by GTO

Attachment 2310169

- I don't think too many first-owners will be worried as most Indian owners generally replace their cars every 5 - 6 years. But people like us who hold onto cars for 8 - 10 years are going to be in for a nasty surprise, as are 2nd & 3rd owners of EVs.

- That said, if EV batteries indeed need replacement at the 7 - 8 year mark, it will greatly affect resale values. Hence, first-owners can get adversely affected too.

-

Well summarized. This is one (more) reason why EVs are a long way off from becoming mainstream. No one with any sense will buy a used EV that is more than 2-3 years old.

The less said about the “green” credentials the better.

The only justifications (IMHO) for these are high performance and keeping pollution levels in cities under control.

[SR-71]

Voted : Yes

No, I don't own a EV and I don't plan to one until it goes mainstream. But as it stands today, if I were in the market for an EV, I have the following concerns that are battery related.

• How does our environment and landscape impact the durability of the battery. What about our water logged roads or for that matter even apartments. Flooded apartments in our metros have rendered cars useless but at least the level of water had to reach the high mounted engine for such significant damage. What about floor placed batteries and axle mounted motors.
• Is it easy to recognize life span of batteries that are used or damaged. For example my phone tells me my battery life is reduce to 90% after couple of years. But what does that really mean ? Will that degradation be linear or logarithmic or exponential going forward ?
• What about the quality of batteries as our manufacturers seem to think its OK to cut corners at the expense of safety as we seen in recent cases of EV scooters. If you thought exploding cellphones or scooters were dangerous, think about a exploding car due to overheating and accentuated by our really hot summers!

[shree_shell]

Voted Yes.

I am very skeptical about today's EVs. My biggest fear is these EVs acting like smartphones, ie. Mandatory Planned/Unplanned Obsolescence.

At least here in the USA people run 25 years old ICE Jap cars and they run like champ. Not so sure about 15-20 years old Tesla or other EVs.

[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by GTO

Attachment 2310169

- Even in the aftermarket, good batteries won't be cheap. I reckon the cost will exceed that of overhauling a petrol / diesel engine.

In my opinion, the e2O is a case study of costs being high due to volumes being low. In standard global cars with standard global batteries, a ~150k-~200k Km battery life is par of the course. It has been that way for most hybrid Camrys and Lexus cars globally. Mind you, even after that the battery degrades, but does not die.

In India, I have spoken to a couple of Camry Hybrid owners who had battery replaces after ~years (120k-140k Kms). I was planning to buy one of them through Utrust. They shared that the battery replacement costed approx Rs 150,000. This is not cheap, but not grossly overpriced in the overall scheme of things. With this replacement, and some more moolah spent on wear and tear parts, one can expect the Camry to last another 607 yrs / 150,000 Km.

So, in short, if its a global model with a batter SKU that is standard for a mainstream model range globally, I would not worry. if is a low volume exotic, I would stay clear away.

[mkumar79]

I voted Yes.

I believe that a like-to-like replacement pack would cost about the same but will have only 2-3 years warranty due to end-of-life announcements by the battery manufacturer.

In this (Beijing manipulated) future, everyone holding on to their EV would have to upgrade to the latest pack by paying 10x. For that price, they would get 20 years warranty for the 5x dense pack going an insane 1500km on Sports mode.

To pay the EMI, I ride 6.5 days a week to the workplace just 15km away. Meanwhile, this CNG car owner sends me pics from his space trip.

[raiuday]

A resounding Yes.

1. With the EVs we already are paying huge difference upfront over an ICE car with reduced flexibility of use anywhere factor. We can only use it in city runs for the most part and short highway trips at max.

2. With a confined usage, range anxiety and the batteries’ depleting health over time, trying to convert the savings to buy another battery in future isn’t sensible at least for me.

3. There maybe more charging stations across on highways, yes but would only make sense to fast charge the car on highways which isn’t that fast either. This also means, your car’s battery is going down health wise much faster if your usage is mostly highway as in my case.

4. Price of battery manufacturing might go down but the inflation rate and our government looking for sources of income if EVs go mainstream wouldn’t make them cheaper to own going forward which reduces the savings kept for a future battery change.

5. All this to utilise a 20L plus car not even like a 7-8L worth ICE diesel car in city or highways for better range to save another 5-10l over years to replace the battery and don’t forget the motor which might go bad too.

So, for me the depletion of batteries and high replacement cost is a major concern when it comes with so many restrictions.

[McLaren_P1]

As Jeroen articulated well, batteries aren’t expected to entirely stop working after the 8-year warranty.

Just like I-phone batteries, their maximum charge state will decrease. Which means maybe instead of 300km, we can drive 150-200km on a full charge.

Key is to buy a vehicle with great range up-front and with experience in building EVs/batteries then this is a non-issue.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

In India, I have spoken to a couple of Camry Hybrid owners who had battery replaces after ~years (120k-140k Kms). I was planning to buy one of them through Utrust. They shared that the battery replacement costed approx Rs 150,000. This is not cheap, but not grossly overpriced in the overall scheme of things.

The Camry like you mentioned is a hybrid not a pure EV since the battery itself is a low capacity unit operating at low speeds and the ICE is always there to take over.
Since the capacity is low so is the cost of replacement. The MSIL SHVS on SCross/Ciaz/XL6 is a much lower capacity but logically similar version with the difference that it lacks a only battery mode.

If I have got that right we're talking of pure EVs here which only have the battery and the motor.
A quick google search shows the battery of the ~16 lakhs Nexon EV to be priced in the range of 5.5-6.2 lakhs.
Although I cannot vouch for the number but it seems in line with the EV scooters which have a 20k+ cost(Credits to Providers : indiamart) for the battery in an EV costing 72-80k and the quality is anyone's guess.

[Piyush Kanthak]

Voted no, because in 8-10 years the battery cost might go down, moreover the infrastructure will improve. If you ask right now or in 3 years then yes I will be concerned.