[das_ren_auto]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

You have covered most of the differences but you have missed one of the crucial things - Cruise control. It is very important in an EV car and it helps in extending range.

Cruise control is not helpful in extending range if the gradient is not even because cruise control tries to maintain the speed at inclines that results in much higher power usage. Best is to modulate with feet. Way better than cruise control in most of the road conditions.

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by GKR9900

The NMC batteries being provided when M&M themselves have confirmed LFP for their EV model lineup due for 2025 launch is also another sore point. Maybe all this was done for some competitive pricing advantage. Mechanically though, it felt much superior to the Nexon. Waiting with baited breath for an updated 4OO covering the missing points.

What's wrong with NMC batteries? LFP they said as they will be sharing VW platform which uses LFP batteries. But that does not make NMC batteries bad.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by das_ren_auto

Cruise control is not helpful in extending range if the gradient is not even because cruise control tries to maintain the speed at inclines that results in much higher power usage. Best is to modulate with feet. Way better than cruise control in most of the road conditions

Yes it doesn't help on inclines but on flat roads which are aplenty in North India cruise control is a boon. Also it removes the fatigue of keeping the feet on the accelerator all the time

Originally Posted by sagsaw

Whats wrong with NMC batteries? LFP they said as they will be sharing VW platform which uses LFP batteries. But that does not make NMC batteries bad.

It is not that NMC batteries are bad. LFP was a technological advancement over NMC batteries. Following are the differences in NMC batteries as compared to LFP batteries

Pros
1. Higher density can pack more capacity in the same space

Cons
1. Chances of thermal runaway are higher
2. Lesser number of discharge cycles as compared to LFP
3. Doesn't like charging till 100%, better performance if charged up to 80%

Tesla started using LFP batteries in its short range Model 3 due to above mentioned reasons. They are not able to put LFP battery in long range one due to space required by the LFP battery.

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

It is not that NMC batteries are bad. LFP was a technological advancement over NMC batteries.

Dont think it was a technological advancement, its was a different chemistry which addressed some cons of NMC but has cons of its own.

Well as far as 100% SOC, need to check what MnM 400 manual says.

[GKR9900]

Originally Posted by sagsaw

Whats wrong with NMC batteries?

It's specifically the following points that concerns me regarding NMC batteries.

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Cons
1. Chances of thermal runaway are higher
2. Lesser number of discharge cycles as compared to LFP
3. Doesn't like charging till 100%, better performance if charged up to 80%

I'm no expert, but In a hot humid climate like India, LFP batteries do look inherently safer than NMC chemistries. Due to lesser number of recharge cycles, NMCs have shorter lifespan than LFP, although that sort of mileage is unlikely to be achieved by at least the first owner of the vehicle. What really concerns me is that routine charging of NMC batteries need to be capped at 80% and occassionally 100% in order to preserve battery life. That means the usable range will be even lower than the real life 250kms quoted by online media attained at 100% charge. A few years down the line, when battery degradation also sets in, the usable range will be that much less. All other competitors except maybe for the Kona offers LFP chemistries.

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Cruise control. It is very important in an EV car and it helps in extending range.

Intentionally left that out as in my state of Kerala where we have narrow congested 2 lane roads in the majority, cruise control is useless unless it's adaptive.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by sagsaw

Dont think it was a technological advancement, its was a different chemistry which addressed some cons of NMC but has cons of its own.

Well as far as 100% SOC, need to check what MnM 400 manual says.

NMC batteries were put into commercial use before LFP batteries. There was a reason to look for batteries beyond NMC. Thermal runaway was a big reason. Also, LFP battery uses iron and phosphorus which is more easily available as compared to Nickel, Magnesium and Cobalt

The con of a LFP battery is that it is heavier as it is lesser density than NMC for the same unit of battery.

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

NMC batteries were put into commercial use before LFP batteries. There was a reason to look for batteries beyond NMC. Thermal runaway was a big reason. Also, LFP battery uses iron and phosphorus which is more easily available as compared to Nickel, Magnesium and Cobalt

The con of a LFP battery is that it is heavier as it is lesser density than NMC for the same unit of battery.

True so its Alternative chemistry with its own pros and cons, not necessarily a technological advancement.

Aluminum Ion batteries if become reality then will become a technological advancement especially very very fast charge time.

[NuttyG]

This is my first posting in team-bhp and would start by expressing the joy the vehicle had brought to our family. The vehicle buying journey is as follows:

a) Finalising the vehicle: We already are having a diesel hatchback and were scouting for an upgrade to a good-performance vehicle. We had almost finalized and proceeded for booking a diesel SUV. That was when teaser from Mahindra was released about their first electric vehicle that is proposed to be launched in 2023. Hence, the plan for booking the diesel SUV was kept on hold. On 26th of January, as soon as the booking started, we made online booking for Mahindra XUV400.
Booking process was seamless and there was absolutely no issues in booking. There was a slight delay in receiving the booking confirmation mail – which gave a bit of jitter. Nevertheless, after a while, we received the mail.

b) Interaction with the Dealer: Since the restriction was there in number of dealers handling electric vehicle, we visited India Garage dealer and explored the vehicle in and out. As there was a lot of pending test drives, we decided that we shall not proceed with test drive. Satisfied about the overall package of vehicle, we left the dealership after getting as much details from the SR.

After waiting for almost 1 ½ months, finally we received from the charger installation team seeking convenient time for conducting survey. The team arrived in time, conducted survey and provided their inputs.

After a week, SR called and intimated about vehicle allocation and started the process for delivery. Payment to the vehicle was made as per the quotation and waited for the delivery.

c) Delivery process: Vehicle was registered on 21.02.2023. Upon completion of registration of the vehicle, SR intimated about the delivery date. As 22nd March was Ugadi, we requested for delivery on that day. But due to administrative reasons and this being first EV being delivered by the dealer, they asked to take delivery of vehicle on 23.03.2023 – was a bit disappointed. We tried to escalate the same to the Manager of SR – but to no avail. So, the delivery was planned for 23rd.
On the delivery day, we reached the dealership and found huge crowd – SR intimated that lot of vehicles were slated to be delivered. We completed the PDI and all documentation formalities & waited for the taking home the black copper beauty.
After brief wait and completion of celebrations, the vehicle was delivered.

d) Initial impressions: We were driving an EV for the first time and immediately fell in love with the silence and the performance of the vehicle. The vehicle has good control, performance and almost all required comfort levels.
Vehicle was taken for pooja and a short drive. The following are the pros and cons noticed during the initial runs.

Pros: Comfort, silence, ease of driving, complete control, available safety equipments, L-mode drive – very good for driving in city, Electronic P-gear mode, abundant space in both rows and boot
Cons: Non availability of hillhold control, fog lamps, non-availability of USB/ charging port, AC vent for back seat passengers.

[sharathkamath04]

Given that XUV400 is a much bigger vehicle than its rival NexonEVMax and uses a denser battery, what stopped MnM from adding a bigger battery to XUV400?

Would have made a nice way to be a better car than NexonEVMax.

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by sharathkamath04

Given that XUV400 is a much bigger vehicle than its rival NexonEVMax and uses a denser battery, what stopped MnM from adding a bigger battery to XUV400?

Would have made a nice way to be a better car than NexonEVMax.

Weight.
Space.
Price.
Thermal Managment.

Originally Posted by NuttyG

Pros: Comfort, silence, ease of driving, complete control, available safety equipments, L-mode drive – very good for driving in city, Electronic P-gear mode, abundant space in both rows and boot
Cons: Non availability of hillhold control, fog lamps, non-availability of USB/ charging port, AC vent for back seat passengers.

Congratulations. Yes some misses there by M&M.

- How is the L mode on Highways?
- What’s the charge time?
- What does the manual say about battery charging? Upto 80% only or full charge?
- How many times fast charge can be done before it requires a slow charge?

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[Dr.AD]

Today I got a chance to do a short test drive (about 2km, on city roads) of XUV400. And I came out quite impressed.

The car is very nice! I could not test the performance in such a short drive, but whenever I tried to accelerate on finding empty stretches, the car responded very well. We were four people in car. Even then, the acceleration and the power felt more than adequate. Overall the driving experience was good.

The ride quality was nice too. The suspensions felt quite mature and well tuned. Of course, this TD was very short, but still, the initial impression was very positive on all fronts.

Interestingly, this was the first EV I drove where the brakes felt just right! For example, I have driven Jaguar IPace, and there, the brakes felt a bit funny. But not in this XUV400. Here, in the normal "D" mode, the brakes were just right. There is another driving mode with heavy regen and equivalent of engine braking, and that felt very artificial and weird. I would never use that mode if I were to drive this car. But the normal D mode felt just right to me.

The interiors are well designed and well packaged. The driver seat was quite comfortable, and the driving position was nice. The switchgear quality felt good. Overall I liked this car a lot.

Of course, from such a short drive, I can not comment on things like range or how this car would be to live with, but nevertheless, I liked this car. During this test drive, I was telling my wife (who was one of the passengers in this car) that this is the future! By this I did not mean this specific car, but the electric cars in general. I was telling her that right now the EV charging infrastructure is still poor, and in 5 years it will be good enough that we can actually do a long drive in an EV without range anxiety. And in that sense this would be the future!

And oh yes, as expected from an EV, the car was very silent and smooth! Overall, great job Mahindra! A nice little car in a well designed package!

[sharathkamath04]

[quote=sagsaw;5542731]Weight.
Space.
Price.
Thermal Managment.

Space must not be a problem as it's a bigger vehicle... N NMC must resolve the weight due to high density.

Price - maybe a extended range version like max at higher price.

Thermal management - they have the system for 30kw battery. Can it not be extended to say 40kw battery?

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by sharathkamath04

Thermal management - they have the system for 30kw battery. Can it not be extended to say 40kw battery?

The EL version of xuv400 already gets a 39.6 kw battery. So if they want to give more range they need to take it 50 kw battery which is same as MG ZS EV

[sagsaw]

[quote=sharathkamath04;5543581]

Originally Posted by sagsaw

Weight.
Space.
Price.
Thermal Managment.

Space must not be a problem as it's a bigger vehicle... N NMC must resolve the weight due to high density.

Bigger doesn't mean you cram lithium battery cells anywhere and everywhere.

Center of gravity/mass vehicle dynamics handling everything and more needs to be taken into account.

Weight is bad for battery range.

[sharathkamath04]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

The EL version of xuv400 already gets a 39.6 kw battery. So if they want to give more range they need to take it 50 kw battery which is same as MG ZS EV

Yes, it makes a good use case till the BEVs come to have a product with 40/50KW battery pack. Due to NMC( 260-270 wh/kg) it may still have same weight as of LFC with 30KW capacity (90/120 watt-hours per kilogram)

[quote=sagsaw;5543636]

Originally Posted by sharathkamath04

Bigger doesn't mean you cram lithium battery cells anywhere and everywhere.

Center of gravity/mass vehicle dynamics handling everything and more needs to be taken into account.

Weight is bad for battery range.

The wheelbase of XUV400 is 2600 and Nexon is 2498. This is what I meant when I said XUV400 is a bigger car. A 40KW LFC (used by Nexon) will be ~300kgs and 50KW NMC (used by XUV400) will be < 300kgs.

Surely, it will cost more to put a bigger battery into XUV400, but the vehicle will be in the sweet spot with a real-world range of 350km.