[aim120]

42kw/57ps is mostly peak power and not continous power, mostly the latter due to low top speed, poor acceleration and natural cooled battery. Continous power is usually about half the peak power about 25kw or less, so the motor will pull less then 1C of power from the battery which is not enough to raise the battery temperature above 60c. Usually the safe air cooled temperature of the battery is 60c.

I guess since its a LFP battery they are not bothered much about cooling. We have two wheelers like Ather and Ola which use NMC cells and have a peak motor power more then 1C power of battery.

[WhiteSierra]

I was eagerly waiting for C3 ev launch, but I'm very disappointed with the power and top speed numbers.

Adding fuel to the fire, the thermal management system is just 'natural air cooled', that too for a tropical country like India. I hope these don't catch fire in summers. I guess they reduced top speed and peak power inorder not to strain battery pack too much. There will be many takers in urban market for daily office commute. For me, no thanks, I will wait for Tata Punch.ev.

[Cresterk]

Scratching my head at what exactly citroen is trying to achieve here. Unless it's priced at 5-7L, I don't see why anyone would compromise with this barebones car from an unknown manufacturer (to the general population) over anything offered by the competition

[DarthVeda]

The power, the torque, the charging times, the battery capacity and cooling methods, just screams CITY car and I guess can only be used in City. the DC charging speeds are less than 20kw.

[guptad42]

This looks like a car specified for an ultra low price, looking at the comprises made.

The car has an air cooled battery, which should not be a problem most of the time as it is LFP. But are buyers supposed to leave the car home on a hot summer day in north India with temperatures hitting 47-48C?

Looks like it's also missing features like cruise control, necessary to get max range out of an EV.

and it even has the original petrol filler cap cover still in place! Feels more like a hobbyist's personal coversion than a factory made EV.

This level of cost-cutting might make sense only if the 29kwh eC3 is somehow offered at around 9.5Lacs - about the same price as mid models the 19kwh mr tiago.ev. Tata Motors have managed to make tiago feel premium, but hobbled it with small batteries.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by Sabyasworld

Battery is 'Naturally Cooled'. Not sure if this means a air cooled battery like the Nissan Leaf..

Naturally cooled sounds like passive cooling, even with a fan/blower unsure how effective it could be at controlling temperature unless it uses the cabin air to help with cooling.
Did they use the word "naturally" instead of "passive" to avoid sounding the alarm bells?

Originally Posted by aim120

so the motor will pull less then 1C of power from the battery which is not enough to raise the battery temperature above 60c. Usually the safe air cooled temperature of the battery is 60c.

Originally Posted by WhiteSierra

I hope these don't catch fire in summers. I guess they reduced top speed and peak power inorder not to strain battery pack too much.

Originally Posted by aim120

I guess since its a LFP battery they are not bothered much about cooling. We have two wheelers like Ather and Ola which use NMC cells and have a peak motor power more then 1C power of battery.

Theoretically yes, looking at the engine & dc charging limits. But in real life conditions hot ambient temperature, DC fast charging etc could surpass this. Even if they don't catch fire, there is a high probability that the BMS could limit charging rate or worse won't let us start the car or charging, if the battery pack is close-to/beyond the temperature limits. After all air has quite low heat capacity and thermal conductivity than any filled coolant, so even if the temperature does not exceed 60 deg. a precautionary BMS setting could result in a delay till the BMS deems it safe.
Would users be fine with a slower than the maximum charging rate on a hot day even in a low battery state?
Its all down to their design. It will quickly become evident if their operating limits were effective enough for the extreme Indian climate. But the other big unknown - the affect on the battery life in long run, we will have to blindly believe the manufacturer for now.
City only car with home charging - yes, Thermal management during DC charging still a big .

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Nissan Leaf was notorious for poor range and horrible battery life due to lack of liquid cooling. That was in Europe. Good luck with air cooling in hot Indian summers.
Citroen may achieve an eye catching introductory price with this move, but it may turn into a case of penny wise pound foolish.

That was exactly my first thought as well. But i think Nissan Leaf had NMC's which were slightly less tolerant, with LFP it may be a bit better. Hoped they have designed & tested it well enough and not use us as their beta testers in real life scenarios. Not to sound apprehensive, but if it ends up with problems then it would look foolish especially since the issue was well known.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Theoretically yes, looking at the engine & dc charging limits. But in real life conditions hot ambient temperature, DC fast charging etc could surpass this. Even if they don't catch fire, there is a high probability that the BMS could limit charging rate or worse won't let us start the car or charging, if the battery pack is close-to/beyond the temperature limits. After all air has quite low heat capacity and thermal conductivity than any filled coolant, so even if the temperature does not exceed 60 deg. a precautionary BMS setting could result in a delay till the BMS deems it safe.

City only car with home charging - yes, Thermal management during DC charging still a big :eek:.
.

The thing is SVolt LFP battery from china can charge upto 1.6C for prismatic and pouch style batteries, SVolt also has Blade style batteries which can be charged upto 2.2C due to increased cooling surface area.

Citreon says it can charge 10% to 80% in 57 min or about 1hr. So by this information, we get to know it can DC fast charge at 20kw speed, so I do not see this car charging any higher then 0.7C charge rate, which is well within the 1.6C to 2.2C rating of the SVolt LFP battery depending on the form factor.

Air cooling works well for Ather 450x. In solar inverters, LFP batteries are cycled daily at upto 1C with air cooling alone, even in our hot climate and also in super hot African countries.

So as long as you do not cross the battery manufacturer recommended charge and discharge rate, it should be fine with just air cooling. The poor acceleration and top speed is proof that the Citreon as tuned/programmed the motor controller to be within the thermal limits of the battery including sustained top speed and heavy acceleration.

[sumannandy]

I was at Trichy Kaveri Motors Zeon charging. One citreon C3 was there. Apart from the fact that he was bullied by Nexon owners to defer charging till all waiting Nexons charged (supported by TML service people who clearly told him that at Tata dealership, charging priority was for TATA cars), he was also apparently having some issues in connecting to the charger. Maybe heat-related issues?

[GTO]

Going by the lower specs & missing features, it's clear that Citroen is targeting the lower end of the EV market. I don't agree with their positioning because cheap doesn't sell in India. Instead, "value for money" does. They made a mistake with the C3 Petrol by not giving it important features & no automatic gearbox. They're making the same mistakes again.

Citroen seems to be misunderstanding the Indian market by only focusing on "low prices". Indian customers, however, are now willing to pay a price premium for a better product.

No MNC auto company was ever able to fight the entrenched carmakers by competing on price. Just ask Fiat, Ford, VW, Chevrolet / Opel, Datsun etc. Hyundai has been the sole exception to this, and even they are moving their focus away from cheap cars in India.

Kia - the most successful MNC brand of the last 20 years - is also very smartly focusing on better cars, a bit of a premium positioning and profits via higher transaction prices. Notice how Kia has consciously avoided hatchbacks or the compact sedan segment. None of their cars are priced cheap.

Bottom line is, the French basically don't get India at all. Tata & Mahindra are selling thousands of cars every month based on the "superior products at a little higher pricing" philosophy (Nexon, Altroz, XUV300, Scorpio-N, Thar, XUV700, Safari etc.).

[ajmat]

I was seriously considering one to replace the Polo but after seeing the specs, I might save a bit more and buy something else a little later. Alternatively, might look at an i20 Nline or similar.

[Comrade]

This seems to be a strict commuter car for urban environment. But still they could have given additional features on an additional top-end variant. Some glaring misses:

1. Auto Climate Control
2. Cruise Control
3. adjustable Regen (0-3)
4. Liquid-cooled battery with 7kW AC charging + 30kW DC charging
5. Electrical adjustable & foldable ORVMs
6. Rear parking sensors!!! It seems to have camera else it's against new rules to have either.

I am not sure how much the battery is tested. I will have my reservations with air-cooled battery, even if power & charging rates are heavily restricted. I think Indian EV market is still in early adopter stage, and current crop of buyers are combing every detail before taking plunge. In such scenario, the car already looks weak on paper and seems dead-on-arrival!

[Asish_VK]

Originally Posted by GTO

Going by the lower specs & missing features, it's clear that Citroen is targeting the lower end of the EV market. I don't agree with their positioning because cheap doesn't sell in India. Instead, "value for money" does.

Well Said. Cheap never sells in India. I don't know why manufacturers with so much resources and brains cannot see this simple thing ! I mean who is doing the market study for them? There are so many examples out here for their ready reference and still miss them completely ?

Originally Posted by GTO

No MNC auto company was ever able to fight the entrenched carmakers by competing on price. Just ask Fiat, Ford, VW, Chevrolet / Opel, Datsun etc. Hyundai has been the sole exception to this

I don't think Hyundai played the price card at all. Their cars were always costlier than the corresponding Maruti ones. But they did give much better interiors, Fit & Finish and Tech for the additional money, thus playing the Feel good and VFM card well.
Hyundai, Kia and MG are the ones who did their homework well before entering Indian Market.


I was hoping Citroen C3 Electric is going to be a winner, but going by the specs and the comments here, feels like another failed attempt. Will be happy to be proven wrong.

[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by Sabyasworld

Battery is 'Naturally Cooled'. Not sure if this means a air cooled battery like the Nissan Leaf. If yes it will certainly be a problem, specially during the hot summer months.

Air-cooled Lithium batteries? In hot India where cars crawl through slow traffic with AC? I suspect this will not end well.

[Vid6639]

Sigh. another cheap cut down version of what could be a very promising option in the market.

We sat with Citroen honchos during the C3 petrol media drive and told them you have amazing potential in the product and with proper features this is a very compelling option to those sub 4m compact SUV.

They have repeated the same mistake with the eC3. People buy EV's not just because they are green and low running but because cars like the NExon are more fun to drive in Ev form vs the ICE options. Here with 57bhp and a top speed of 107kmph, I'm not sure what Citroen is trying to achieve. The missing features means even as a commuter it's not a great option as there is no dimming IRVM at all, no electric mirrors and more stuff missing.

[1.2TSI7DSG]

Originally Posted by GTO

Going by the lower specs & missing features, it's clear that Citroen is targeting the lower end of the EV market.

Citroen seems to be misunderstanding the Indian market by only focusing on "low prices". Indian customers, however, are now willing to pay a price premium for a better product.

Bottom line is, the French basically don't get India at all.

I would rather say they are spot-on against Tiago EV in terms of positioning. They have nearly the same specs with hopefully more space and better ride and handling. The footprint is perfect for someone who wants to have a second car for his daily office commute of 15-20 km each way (charging would last a week).

Where M&M is targetting the upper segment with a nexon + big boot; I would be happy if they launch it around 10-15l. Being electric, hoping Citroen's disadvantage of low service centers will not be a problem. That apart, battery life, life of the company in India, and poor resale will be the negatives of the car.