[RaSing]

Hi Team

I am on the lookout for a new car for my wife to replace her 9-year-old 61000kms run alto k10. This change is not because she has asked for it but because I have got bored of this car now

Present Scenario: I have a 2017 Creta 1.4 D(left with 5 yrs because of NCR Diesel Rule) for my personal use/family/highway use. Alto was used by the wife for her daily office commute and has never been used on a highway. I have booked a TIAGO MR XT EV. Here MR Stands for the Medium Range(Expected Actual Range around 125-150kms per charge) and shall cost me around 9,80,000 on road Delhi

Our requirement is for a small hatchback/compact SUV to be used again in city only
Budget 8-10 lakhs
Transmission: Automatic Preferred
Daily Run: At present, it is 36kms(18 on one side) to be driven in DELHI NCR Traffic

We have considered the following cars and listed below are some positives and negatives we observed

--Tata Punch Manual/ AMT
+Felt the car is built nice ,
- Though the AMT felt ok on a test drive, not sure if it really is (as per reviews on the forum/elsewhere)

Rejected because wife didn't like the looks much. However, open for a reconsideration

--Grand i 10 Nios AMT

My preferred car at the moment as
+we felt the cabin to be really nice and airy because of white and grey colors used
+good plastic quality used inside.
+AMT felt nice too.
- The suspension felt to be very stiff for low-speed rides
- Perceived Value doesn't look worth 8.5 on road(i think so)


-Ignis AMT
+ Appropriate Size
+ High Ground Clearance
+ Good Seating position
- Very Very Stiff Suspension
- Non Self centering the steering wheel

Rejected because of very very stiff suspension(could feel all jerks) plus the non-self-centering steering wheel

-Venue Manual/IMT
-Have not test-driven but I feel that it might be more comfortable than the ones on the list above
-Greater Social Status
-If buying the IMT then we also get the Turbo on the engine
-I saw a youtube review and again got to know that the suspension is stiff for city limits(Kindly confirm). So between the Grand i10 and the venue the problem remains the same as stiff suspension. -IMT is around 11.2 on the road and a bit stretched on the budget.

-Tiago EV(Booked)
+Have to take a look and feel and test drive yet as the car is not in the showroom yet
+Saves around 30-35k annually as per my current running
+ Better Automatic than a AMT(i believe)
- Actual saving may start only around 4th or 5th year
- Range Anxiety



The problem here is that
1)i am still undecided whether a Tiago EV in our case is a good decision considering the past and present running average which is around 6800kms a year. A similar spec(+2/3 features) petrol car like a grand i10 Sportz AMT or a Tiago XZA+ AMT, costs me around 8.5 on road and a XTA AMT is 7.6.
2)9.8 on road for Tiago EV, is it worth or buy a petrol car like Venue with a better social status?
4) Two cars like 1 Venue and 1 Creta may lead to an imbalance as a smaller car may be needed at times
5) Any particular problem to with an EV other than range anxiety?
6) Should i save the initial money and go with Grandi10?
7) If a i buy a venue , it might suffice my highway runs in case i decided to sell the Creta (2,3 years down the line , as i mentioned it is already 5 years old 62k run, and left with 5 more years)

I also believe that the initial stretch of +1/2 Lakhs is still better rather than regretting it later, so open to suggestions


Please suggest the best in this case

[NerdSpeaks]

Personally, I feel that EV technology is under rapid development stage. So, it is very well possible that today's EV (having limited range) might be an outdated EV within next 5 years.
Looking at your wife's car usage pattern, in next 5 years, you may not be able to even breach break even point vis a vis same model Tiago petrol (I leave calculations to you).
It is also true that future of petrol car is uncertain.
If I would have been in your place, I would have upgraded Alto by another pre-owned car from next segment by spending just a couple of lakhs.
Just a different perspective.

I'm myself owning 3rd gen Honda city, but delaying my next car purchase due to continuously evolving EV technology & uncertain future of both, EV as well as ICE cars.

[ajayc123]

If you are inclined towards EVs, here's my thinking.

As we are expecting a few more small EVs within the next one year (like Punch, Altroz, C3 etc), you may want to wait out a bit more to expand your choices.

It's worthwhile to try out the EVs once before taking the ICE vs EV decision, as most of your ICE options are 3 cylinder & AMT, so driving experience in EV can be expected to be better.

[pganapathy]

It depends on how long you intend to keep the EV. My friend has an electric Nexon and his running cost is approximately 1 rupee per KM. Work out the differential you are paying and see if it makes sense. The other cost you need to factor in is battery replacement at approximately 7 or 8 years.

The EV is a very quiet vehicle with good NVH (road and tyre noise only) but do consider whether charging will be an issue. You need fixed parking and a charger installed there

[GTO]

Originally Posted by RaSing

I am on the lookout for a new car for my wife to replace her 9-year-old 61000kms run alto k10. This change is not because she has asked for it but because I have got bored of this car now

I think your use case is just perfect for an electric hatchback & you should pull the trigger:

- 9 years means time to replace your Alto, especially because of its basic nature.

- You have a larger car for highway runs. If it was the only car of the house, I'd tell you to stick to petrol power, but this new purchase will primarily be used in the city by your wife.

- Most of your alternatives are AMTs and I can tell you that AMTs are awful to live with. Jerky, with suspect long-term reliability. Of course, the Grand i10's AMT is smoother than the rest, yet it will never match the refined & seamless power delivery of an EV.

Any particular problem to with an EV other than range anxiety?

You will be an early adopter, so expect some niggles & issues. Although Tata is way ahead on the learning curve compared to other manufacturers, due to the sheer volumes of its EV division.

In terms of status, I would say that a green number-plate has more bragging rights than a Venue .

[SKC-auto]

It's right time to take a plunge into EV, especially for NCR people. Is the odd-even rule still applied in winters? I believe EVs can be used on both odd and even days.

You will start saving after 3 years of usage, will save considerably if you keep the car for more than 10 years.

The batteries should last 15 years, no need of replacement 5-7 years. It really does not matter to someone who uses the car for personal usage for 10 years about other rapid developments of EVs.

I recommend switching to LR, gives you more range, will not be a problem even if battery loses 5-10% charge in your long ownership.

As GTO mentioned, you may see few niggles, not because it is an EV, it's because Tata is still in it's learning curve. Since your usage is strictly for City and probably do not have to use dc fast chargers and you will not be dealing with many of the niggles.

Edit: Just realized, another issue with ICE cars is flex fuel in future.

[The Rationalist]

You should take the plunge. As you have a Primary petrol car, Tiago EV fits your requirement. The price of EV’s won’t fall below ₹8 lakh in the coming years unless it’s some contraption. With 4* crash rating, Tiago is safe than most cars. An equivalent proper petrol automatic is not available in the below ₹10 lakh segment except Jazz or Kiger.

[IshaanIan]

Having driven the Tiago extensively back in 2017 when our family nearly decided to buy one, I can say confidently that the car is exceptional in every sense except for its weak power-train options (JTP variant was asked for but dealership never had an answer on it). So that way I guess an EV Tiago ought to be really nice

Also I note that you are considering getting a Hyundai i10 or Venue or Ignis for better "social status"? Please know that both the i10 and Venue have performed extremely abysmally in crash tests and are definitely less safe than the Tiago and as for the Ignis, a close friend of mine's mother owns an Ignis AMT from back when it was launched and since he was looking for a new car to replace the Ignis, I thought I'd ask him if he'd sell it to me. Since he stays near my house, maintains his cars well at the ASC and I had even driven the car few years back and thought it drove well, I imagined buying it off of him would be a safe bet. He told me not to bother as the AMT box has been giving problems and that the service center folks have not been able to solve it or give a concrete resolution that does not involve heavy expenditure. So I would say stay far away from any AMT vehicle.

[Everlearner]

I strongly suggest the Tiago EV.

Though I understand the apprehension as it is a new and untested product, the Tata's EV journey till date gives a lot of confidence and as GTO said, your's is a perfect case for an EV.

Though the pure cost savings may be debatable depending on what you compare with,
Since you are in Delhi, the benefits of an EV is not only limited to fuel cost savings, but also extend to be able to drive on both odd and even days, not required to sell/scrap after 10/15 years etc.,

All the best for your purchase and do update your experience before and after purchase.

[sharathkamath04]

I suggest Tiago.ev.

* You are looking for an automatic, what better than an EV? I own a NEV and drive quality is way better than any ICE. No noise, no vibration (even when stuck in traffic), single pedal drive.

* Features tiago.ev provides are really one step ahead of the cars in the same range.

* Altoz, Punch, Curvv, Avinya ..etc will be surely on par with NEV in terms of range and hence will be much higher in price. So no point waiting for newer cars.

* at 600km per month usage, EV would take more time to even out. But also can be used for a longer time as maintenance is much easier than ICE. Maybe you will start using it more once it arrives ( I am driving my NEV much more than I ran my ICE car).

As this is a city car, and you have a bigger car (which can be upgraded when BEVs arrive) this will be the perfect trial of new tech.

The biggest negative is the service center expr, but assuming Tata will soon separate EV service from ICE (as per reports) that much be much smoother expr.

[torquecurve]

Note: I am answering based on my experience with the Tigor EV plus my experience of owning a Nano AMT and comparing it with the Celerio AMT and our other cars.
- Pros of Owning an Electric
- Super Low running costs (1 Re/ km on home charging, 1.5 to 2 on Fast Charging)
- Excellent NVH (the Tigor is more silent than the Superb was at idle)
- Smaller footprint helps in congested city roads
- Good highway manners
- Rapidly increasing charging network esp. in cities
- The 'uniqueness' of being a pioneer in this, I get to have discussions almost everyday!
- the 'Sport' mode is an actual beast and fun to drive
- If you install a solar system, fuel is free for life.

- Cons
- You are paying a premium upfront - e.g. The Tigor was almost 14 lakhs before subsidy, could have purchased a petrol/ diesel Tigor for a lot cheaper.
- Suspension compared to the regular Tigor is 'stiffer' but still cushy ride quality (is this a pro?)
- Higher pressure on tyres as you carrying a heavy battery all the time (38 rear/ 33 front),
- If your usage is low (less than 1000 km/ month), the differential cost will take atleast 6-7 years to recover.

Other points
- You will have to 'relearn' driving. A heavy foot and your battery drains faster than you can say 'Charge!'.
- Personally my driving range has gone up from 180 kms to 240 kms now and I love using the sport mode. Its about using the throttle to gain and maintain speed and constant speed driving
- Some niggles were there in the Tigor but kudos to Tata who have been super responsive


Easy way to calculate your 'break even' would be to divide the extra cost you paying by 10. that is the approximate kms you need to drive. Divide that by the average per month and you have your number of months.

The AMT issues are over rated - once you get used to the characteristics of the AMT, you can drive it really well. (e.g. hitting the accelerator to drop a couple of gears to slow down!).

A very important point - the Battery Does Not need replacement after 8 years. As with any battery its capacity will reduce over how many cycles it is going through (typically charging is one cycle - so if you charge it every day, 10 years will be about 3700 cycles - and the battery generally will have 3500- 4000 cycle life). Capacity reduction will mean that instead of 100% yielding 200 kms range, it will be 180 kms or so (10% reduction). So you can still use the car and hopefully by that time buy another one!

[wocanak]

Originally Posted by RaSing

-Tiago EV(Booked)

Few points in favor of Tiago EV:

• Since you are based out of Delhi, you can keep it for as long as you want or it will sell for higher price when you decide to sell.
• At this post most of the EV niggles are DC fast charging, since you have another ICE car you can keep this for city only and charge at home only. You are then unlikely to face any issues.
• In the near future, i.e. 3 to 5 years EVs are going to be good for only city use, hence it is best to replace your small/city car with an EV.

The low usage makes it difficult to justify the cost over the i10 purely on saving. But Tiago EV will definitely give a better experience, more power and super smooth automatic. Other than the size, it probably compares with next segment like i20 CVT and there it would be price competitive.

Originally Posted by pganapathy

The other cost you need to factor in is battery replacement at approximately 7 or 8 years.

Please not this, there have been multiple studies (refereed in various threads) which indicate that LFP batteries will retain >80% of capacity over 3000 cycles. So even for the medium range Tiago EV this will be 150 km x 3000 = 4,50,000 kms. That is how EV makers are confidently providing 8 year/1,60,000km warranty. All indications are the battery will out last everything else in the car, so when the car is junked after 15+ years the battery would still be good for UPS like applications for many more years before recycling.

[RaSing]

Thanks for all the responses and suggestions team.

Yes, I have fixed parking where I can put a charger. However, if I decide to go ahead, I again have a few questions in mind

A)Is my decision to book an MR(Medium Range) ok? My thought process of booking an MR and not an LR(Long Range) primarily was
1)that this car's primary use is in City and not for the highway drives
2)The LR will cost me 90,000-100,000 more as compared to the similar MR variant. The extra cost again will take another 2-3 years to recover which will then take the beginning of cost saving period from initial 3-4 to around 6-7 years as per our running

B) What kind of niggles are expected from a Tata EV considering they are already experienced with Tigor and Nexon. I hope the niggles should be minor and not major, forcing me to regret this decision later.

Originally Posted by torquecurve

- Some niggles were there in the Tigor but kudos to Tata who have been super responsive

Can you help to let me know some of the issues you faced

[d-g-p]

From another persepective :
1) Do we know what will be the depreciation of Pure ICE after 8-10 years ? Who knows after 8-10 years pure ICE cars might in fact depreciate more. Pure Hybrids in the meantime are not cheaper than ICE cars.
2) Will the technology permit us to replace a current battery pack with higher capacity one after 8-10 years? This might be a possibility though, if OEM works on it ! Battery capacity will be one of the most important parameter changing over any next generation electric car.
3) How much changes expected in charging capabilities ?
4) How do we see the Govt regulations coming up with regard to pollution in Major Cities if not statewide ? EV's are safe bet on this count.
5) What will be the Tax on EV car purchase after 8-10 years ? The subsidy might go and EV might get taxed similarly. Todays 10 lakh EV car might cost 12 lakhs in future !

So I feel we can take risks with an EV car priced around 10 lakhs for primary city use. More so if there is a back up or Primary Car for Highway use. Break even calculations may not be accurate !!

[sharathkamath04]

Originally Posted by RaSing

Thanks for all the responses and suggestions team.

Yes, I have fixed parking where I can put a charger. However, if I decide to go ahead, I again have a few questions in mind

A)Is my decision to book an MR(Medium Range) ok? My thought process of booking an MR and not an LR(Long Range) primarily was
1)that this car's primary use is in City and not for the highway drives
2)The LR will cost me 90,000-100,000 more as compared to the similar MR variant. The extra cost again will take another 2-3 years to recover which will then take the beginning of cost saving period from initial 3-4 to around 6-7 years as per our running

B) What kind of niggles are expected from a Tata EV considering they are already experienced with Tigor and Nexon. I hope the niggles should be minor and not major, forcing me to regret this decision later.




Can you help to let me know some of the issues you faced

I have a NEV Max version and I love the car. But faced the below niggles:

1. Purchase process is painful. Dealers are overwhelmed and totally unresponsive.
2. Same with the accessories team. I am yet to get a 3D mat from them.
3. Long queue at service centers and not a great expr at SC.