[Eco_boost]

I don’t think it’s fair to compare the EC3 with the Tiago. It’s a bigger car , comparable with the upcoming Punch EV, which will be priced and positioned above the Tiago. The only thing which will work against Citroen is the measly 57 HP of power output.

[guptad42]

Originally Posted by Eco_boost

I don’t think it’s fair to compare the EC3 with the Tiago. It’s a bigger car , comparable with the upcoming Punch EV, which will be priced and positioned above the Tiago. The only thing which will work against Citroen is the measly 57 HP of power output.

Market perception is driven by positioning. Citroen positioned C3 petrol at a gap of hardly 40K from the tiago. That created the comparison. Plus, Citroen went in for a barebones spec for eC3, even doing things like keeping a dummy petrol tank lid and using an air-cooled battery. That extreme level of price cutting naturally set the expectation that eC3 will be priced very aggressively.

Tata Motors understood that an EV is an aspirational product. So, even the XT MR at 9.29L has features like touchscreen, android auto etc. The corresponding model in eC3 range is Feel. Some 3 Lacs higher! It could have sustained max 1.5L price difference for extra room and larger battery. At 3lacs higher, it will struggle and booking cancellations will mount. A much more premium, fully loaded eC3 with all bells and whistles could have carried off the 3 Lacs price difference. The pricing is simply out of sync with eC3 product positioning.

Once a car model gets stuck with the stigma of being a sales failure in our market, it is exceedingly difficult to recover. This pricing misstep can turn out to be very costly for Citroen India.

[Magicallyme]

While the pricing looks expensive compared to Tiago EV. It is reasonable when compared to the Tigor EV and Nexon Prime EV (starting at Rs. 14.49 lakh), both have an ARAI range of around 315 km.



Tiago is strictly a city car because of small boot and no spare tire. eC3 can be used for weekend outings. My guess is it will have a higher real world range compared to all of the above mentioned cars given its specification.

The real unknown is battery performance in summer months and longevity. I am very interested in learning the details of eC3's battery warranty.

[Geta]

Fantastic pricing!!!��

I find it ridiculous when people compare a 4m compact EV SUV to a small ev hatchback and call it overpriced.

The battery is the most expensive component in any EV, more so in the entry level category. Citroen C3 EV comes with a 29.2 kwh battery and it should be compared with the Nexon EV prime, which also measures 4m in length and comes with a 30.2 kWh battery. Citroen has managed to undercut Nexon by 3 lakhs is not a small achievement �� And Nexon prime EV was retailing at 15.xx lakhs till last month before XUV400 called it's bluff, is a testimony to the level of aggressiveness in Citroen's pricing.

Yes, of course Nexon ev's performance looks better, at least on paper. But Citroen C3 EV as created a segment for itself, by giving a large car with a good range with "adequate" performance. Several buyers who were considering the Tiago EV or the Tigor EV, or even other ICE sub 4m SUVs may get tempted to buy this one. This will not be an enthusiast's first choice, by this will have several takers. At least 1000- 1200 pieces every month.

People who compare the C3 EV with Tiago EV and feel that Citroen should have been more aggressive with its pricing should remember that Nexon prime EV's 30.2 kWh battery alone costs Rs 7 lakhs. Having a similar sized battery (29.2 kWh), Citroen is practically giving away the other components of the car+ showroom experience + service back up for Rs 4.5 lakhs. How much more aggressive can one get with the pricing, I wonder...

[aim120]

eC3 has a bigger wheelbase then Nexon and a similar battery capacity as Nexon prime. Yet some want it to be priced cheaper then Tiago, I want some of the stuff they are smoking.
End of the day a small car with all bells and whistles is still a small car and a bigger car without the bells and whistles is still a bigger car.

Also Citroen has said at they are also looking at fleet buyers, suddenly this eC3 appears to be a bargain compared to Tigor EV and Xpress T EV both priced higher and has less range then eC3 and has a spare wheel.

The eC3 has a BYD sourced motor and controller, which should ease powertrain reliability concerns.

[psbali]

Originally Posted by aim120

eC3 has a bigger wheelbase then Nexon and a similar battery capacity as Nexon prime. Yet some want it to be priced cheaper then Tiago, I want some of the stuff they are smoking.
End of the day a small car with all bells and whistles is still a small car and a bigger car without the bells and whistles is still a bigger car.

Also Citroen has said at they are also looking at fleet buyers, suddenly this eC3 appears to be a bargain compared to Tigor EV and Xpress T EV both priced higher and has less range then eC3 and has a spare wheel.

The eC3 has a BYD sourced motor and controller, which should ease powertrain reliability concerns.

I am looking to buy another ev. We already have a Nexon EV XM at home. Without subsidies nexon ev is no longer VFM.

The price is extremely good compared to Nexon and I am amused how this car is being compared with Tiago when its wheelbase is longer than nexon.

This car makes a lot of sense for a person like me but I cannot buy without waiting for reports on its performance as it has an air cooled battery. That is the only reason stopping me from buying this car.

This being a city car i can make do with less power and pickup but a proven thermal mangenent is a must.

[SRT_Dwarka]

This is way overpriced, for more than one reason, Consider comparisons with:

1:- C3 Petrol: This goes for Rs. 5.98 lakh ex showroom, which is about 5.06 Lakh pre GST. I have a sense the much lower powered motor plus controller should cost Citroen less than the Engine and Gearbox, but let us give them the benefit of doubt and say they are identical priced, addition of 30 kwh of battery should cost about Rs. 4.5 lakh at Rs. 15000 per kwh battery capacity, totalling Rs. 9.6 lakh pre GST and Rs. 10.1 lakh ex showroom (EVs have 5% GST), note this maintains margins for Citroen, and I'd argue improves net margins by spreading fixed costs of the sales dud petrol model. Therefore, Citroen just got greedy, extremely greedy.

Also, they forgot elementary economics, even for a entirely city use, cab like mileage scenario covering the 5.5 lakh delta over the Petrol C3 would mean using it for about a lakh kilometers, not counting the additional interest, insurance premium costs etc. For a car whose battery is warranted to be at 80% capacity for 1.4 lakh km this does not bode well.

2 :- Tata Tiago : Well, Tiago (Petrol) while not exactly a premium product, has much better interiors etc compared to the Petrol C3, this is amplified in the electric version. Most all reviews have mentioned that the EC3 feels low rent, plus it definitely has the performance disadvantage. Agreed the size is larger than the Tiago by about 1.5 inch in width and about 6 inches in length, how much premium this should carry over the EV Tiago should be determined by the premium charged in case of the Petrol C3, as the body would remain identical, isn't it? Even accounting for a larger battery (10 kWh or about 1.5 lakh Rs.) This shouldn't have been priced more than 10.25 lakh Rs.

3 Tata Tigor :- Only scenario where this comparison bodes well for the C3 in terms of VFM quotient, but the Tigor has never been VFM when compared to the Nexon and Tiago and this shows and will keep showing in the sales numbers. Going by the same logic mentioned in the above points variant for variant Tigor EV shouldn't be priced by more than 1.25 lakh over the Tiago. I.E. about 11 lakh for the base and about 12.75 lakh for the top model.

4: Nexon: Nexon is a much larger car, in all the same ways as C3 is to Tiago, except for wheelbase. I would think Nexon is priced on the higher side too, but unlikely Tata will reduce prices any time soon, considering the popularity of the same, however even if Citroen decided to price the EC3 basis the premium commanded by the Nexon, I don't think it factored in sufficiently the lower perceived quality of interiors and features, the size disadvantage, the lower performance motor and controller all of which I would value at least at Rs. 3.5 lakh, therefore, even in the most optimistic of scenarios, EC3 shouldn't have been priced at Rs. 11 lakh for the base model.

This product will definitely flop like it's Petrol counterpart and unless they offer significant, like 20-25% discounts to fleet operators, won't sell in that segment too. I do hope they don't follow this discount strategy, because they'll end up darlings of the Taxi market in that case, and because of that, outcasts in the personal car market.

[Geta]

Originally Posted by SRT_Dwarka

This is way overpriced, for more than one reason, Consider comparisons with:

1:- C3 Petrol: This goes for Rs. 5.98 lakh ex showroom, which is about 5.06 Lakh pre GST. I have a sense the much lower powered motor plus controller should cost Citroen less than the Engine and Gearbox, but let us give them the benefit of doubt and say they are identical priced, addition of 30 kwh of battery should cost about Rs. 4.5 lakh at Rs. 15000 per kwh battery capacity, totalling Rs. 9.6 lakh pre GST and Rs. 10.1 lakh ex showroom (EVs have 5% GST), note this maintains margins for Citroen, and I'd argue improves net margins by spreading fixed costs of the sales dud petrol model. Therefore, Citroen just got greedy, extremely greedy.

Also, they forgot elementary economics, even for a entirely city use, cab like mileage scenario covering the 5.5 lakh delta over the Petrol C3 would mean using it for about a lakh kilometers, not counting the additional interest, insurance premium costs etc. For a car whose battery is warranted to be at 80% capacity for 1.4 lakh km this does not bode well.



4: Nexon: Nexon is a much larger car, in all the same ways as C3 is to Tiago, except for wheelbase. I would think Nexon is priced on the higher side too, but unlikely Tata will reduce prices any time soon, considering the popularity of the same, however even if Citroen decided to price the EC3 basis the premium commanded by the Nexon, I don't think it factored in sufficiently the lower perceived quality of interiors and features, the size disadvantage, the lower performance motor and controller all of which I would value at least at Rs. 3.5 lakh, therefore, even in the most optimistic of scenarios, EC3 shouldn't have been priced at Rs. 11 lakh for the base model.

This product will definitely flop like it's Petrol counterpart and unless they offer significant, like 20-25% discounts to fleet operators, won't sell in that segment too. I do hope they don't follow this discount strategy, because they'll end up darlings of the Taxi market in that case, and because of that, outcasts in the personal car market.

1) 29.2 kWh battery pack for Rs 4.5 lakhs? Really?
The 30 kWh battery of Nexon EV costs Rs 7 lakhs and the 39.2 kWh battery of Hyundai Kona costs Rs 12.5 lakhs, as per actual owners (screenshots attached)

2) An EV is not only the battery pack. It also needs a motor
The electric motor of Nexon EV costs about Rs 4.5 lakhs (screenshot attached). So we can guess the cost of motor in eC3.

3) "Nexon is a much larger car"? Really? Nexon is wider by 8 cm than the C3, but between them the length and height are near identical. (Screenshot attached)

Hence ideally eC3 should be compared only with Nexon EV, in which case the eC3 will beat the Nexon EV prime in the VFM proposition. Comparing it with Tiago EV is wrong and unacceptable.

[SRT_Dwarka]

Originally Posted by Geta

1) 29.2 kWh battery pack for Rs 4.5 lakhs? Really?
The 30 kWh battery of Nexon EV costs Rs 7 lakhs and the 39.2 kWh battery of Hyundai Kona costs Rs 12.5 lakhs, as per actual owners (screenshots attached)

2) An EV is not only the battery pack. It also needs a motor
The electric motor of Nexon EV costs about Rs 4.5 lakhs (screenshot attached). So we can guess the cost of motor in eC3.

3) "Nexon is a much larger car"? Really? Nexon is wider by 8 cm than the C3, but between them the length and height are near identical. (Screenshot attached)

Hence ideally eC3 should be compared only with Nexon EV, in which case the eC3 will beat the Nexon EV prime in the VFM proposition. Comparing it with Tiago EV is wrong and unacceptable.

Yes, really, because what is mentioned is the price at which the OEM sources them, not what OEM quotes for the part in the after market, world of a difference between those two.
For example if you were to try to source the complete engine or transmission assembly from the OEM, it would cost you more than the car itself, hence new cars with engine damage being declared total loss by insurers

And yeah, I'm more than aware, EV is more than the battery pack, I did mention that there and I gave some allowance to Citroen for that fact there. Do some research, you'll figure out that a similar powered motor, integrated gear reduction and controller would be cheaper to manufacture than an engine and gearbox. Whereas the C3 has a lower powered engine compared to the Petrol motor.

I have mentioned the reasons I feel why a Nexon is in a different league compared to the C3, and you are free to make your own conclusions, I believe my view is also the view expressed by most people who have actually tested both cars.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Geta

1) 29.2 kWh battery pack for Rs 4.5 lakhs? Really?
The 30 kWh battery of Nexon EV costs Rs 7 lakhs and the 39.2 kWh battery of Hyundai Kona costs Rs 12.5 lakhs, as per actual owners (screenshots attached)

2) An EV is not only the battery pack. It also needs a motor
The electric motor of Nexon EV costs about Rs 4.5 lakhs (screenshot attached). So we can guess the cost of motor in eC3.
.

Those are just sticker prices, nothing to do with actual price Tata or Citroen is getting the batteries. LFP batteries are sold for <100$/kwh which is 8300₹/kwh, I would say the Tata Nexon EV battery pack costs less than 4lakh.

If you build a car with sticker prices alone Tata Nexon EV will cost 25lakh, Tata should be selling for a 10lakh loss.

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by SRT_Dwarka

Yes, really, because what is mentioned is the price at which the OEM sources them, not what OEM quotes for the part in the after market, world of a difference between those two.
For example if you were to try to source the complete engine or transmission assembly from the OEM, it would cost you more than the car itself, hence new cars with engine damage being declared total loss by insurers

And yeah, I'm more than aware, EV is more than the battery pack, I did mention that there and I gave some allowance to Citroen for that fact there. Do some research, you'll figure out that a similar powered motor, integrated gear reduction and controller would be cheaper to manufacture than an engine and gearbox. Whereas the C3 has a lower powered engine compared to the Petrol motor.

I have mentioned the reasons I feel why a Nexon is in a different league compared to the C3, and you are free to make your own conclusions, I believe my view is also the view expressed by most people who have actually tested both cars.

As far as comparing with Tiago being "wrong and unacceptable", by who? Someone who gives two hoots?

Whatever anyone says for or against, the eC3 will pickup sales once deliveries start n initial usage reports start coming in.

and its summer in India so the best time to judge an EV

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by sagsaw

In my opinion Citroen is clearly targetting City commuters on priority.

Air cooled simple regen most features like CC, ESP, and many more missing all points to a very very aggressive pricing.

7.49L looks on the cards.

Looks like my estimate what they would do was pretty off the target ... I underestimated and Citroen has overestimated

I feel they have missed the mark by a fair amount ...

at the conservative least 10.49 should have been the starting price

[sagsaw]

I suspect they may come up with a 19kwh battery at a lower entry price in the near future.

I think they are waiting for the Punch EV to launch.

[autocratic1107]

Citroen as a brand first needs to create awareness of its existence in the country, which they are yet to achieve. Apart from major cities, so many tier 2 and 3 cities don't have dealerships or service networks making the brand non-existing. On top of that, when you are competing with home grown players, you need to be on top of them in majority of aspects and more importantly pricing to lure people to even look at the brand.

ec3 is priced on the higher side for sure and the brand will continue to remain niche and may go into oblivion if they don't change their strategies. With a mist of grey area surrounding in terms of air-cooled battery performance, ec3 will struggle to find its feet, as the competition is only set to grow in the EV space in the future.

[Geta]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

Those are just sticker prices, nothing to do with actual price Tata or Citroen is getting the batteries. LFP batteries are sold for <100$/kwh which is 8300₹/kwh, I would say the Tata Nexon EV battery pack costs less than 4lakh.

If you build a car with sticker prices alone Tata Nexon EV will cost 25lakh, Tata should be selling for a 10lakh loss.

Please stick to this discussion:
How does that matter what price Tata or Citroen get their batteries for? If Tata can sell a 30.2 kWh battery powered 4m EV SUV for Rs 14.49 lakhs, then why is it considered "overpriced" if Citroen sells a similar sized Electric SUV with similar battery pack for Rs 11.49 lakhs?

Thanks