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Old 25th May 2023, 13:30   #1
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EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for a second car for my office daily commute (65km per day). The car will always be driven solo (99.9% times) and once in 6 months or a year I may have to drop back one of my colleague, but that is rare. This is my experience over the last 5 years in my current job. My legal retirement is 10 years later and hence I am taking 10 years life of my second car which I am planning to buy. My current monthly expense on fuel is Rs.11000/- and If I buy EV, it will be reduced to around Rs.2500/-.

My existing car is 5 years old Honda City VMT (covered 63000km), which I will continue to use for social gatherings and long distance travel and will keep it for next 10 years too. My budget for new car is 9-12 lacs onroad Delhi / Noida. My requirement is automatic and I am okay with sedan or compact SUV. I am mentally prepared to sell / scrap both my cars after 10 years from now (at the time of my retirement) and will buy whatever suit me at that time.

Over the last 2 months, I have done some reading on EV in India and on the basis my reading in this forum, I found that most of the members are not very comfortable buying EV right now due to lot of uncertainties about longevity of EVs currently on sale and also about charging infrastructure. Beside, currently it is not very clear if current gen of EVs are niggle free in long run e.g. after 2 years from now (after covering 50k km or more).

However, I have done some excel working comparing EVs with almost similar sized & priced Petrol AT cars which confused me more.

If I go basis excel sheet, for strictly city drive buying an EV make sense due to cost I save, if I keep the EV car for longer duration eg. 10 years. The current gen EVs may look outdated after 2 years or so, but that is the case with ICE cars too.

Frankly I am confident about the longevity of the EVs on sale in India right now. I feel that Tiago EV, Nexon EV, MG ZS EV etc. will last 2 lacs km easily without any trouble. Charging at home is available and there is no issue in getting public charging within NCR so charging my EV will never be an issue.

I am currently waiting for Punch EV launch and after discussing my close friend who run a Tata showroom (in some other city), he is not sure if Punch EV will launch so soon (I am expecting July 2023 launch).

Since Team-BHP is read by millions of people, I would like to have BHPians opinion whether people like me who want to buy a second car for home for strictly city run (& within budget of under 12 lacs), should go for Tata EV (Tiago / Punch) or wait for another year or so for more EVs from other manufacturers. Frankly I am not expecting major EVs from other manufacturers before middle of 2025.

Dear Moderator - Please merge this thread with relevant thread, if a fresh thread on this topic is not required

PS - Prices mentioned in attached files are taken from carwale.com and Delhi onroad price as per carwale.com website.
Attached Thumbnails
EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage-tiago-ev-vs-petrol-competition.jpg  

EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage-nexon-ev-vs-petrol-competition.jpg  

EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage-ev-vs-petrol-cost-comparison-10-years.jpg  

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Old 25th May 2023, 14:02   #2
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

I think Punch EV will be all the car one can possibly need for daily local city use. Even the Tiago EV is very very good, just that the Tiago itself is a 7-8 year old product and the same shows in its design. Punch is newer and more modern with better ergonomics. And, it is safer.

Tata’s EVs are well received and are pretty sorted now. Companies like Mahindra and Maruti Suzuki are very much behind the curve, and don’t have access to real world performance and data of tens of thousands of cars running across the country for years.

Last edited by Shreyans_Jain : 25th May 2023 at 14:08.
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Old 25th May 2023, 14:13   #3
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
I think Punch EV will be all the car one can possibly need for daily local city use. Even the Tiago EV is very very good, just that the Tiago itself is a 7-8 year old product and the same shows in its design. Punch is newer and more modern with better ergonomics. And, it is safer.

Tata’s EVs are well received and are pretty sorted now. Companies like Mahindra and Maruti Suzuki are much behind the curve, and don’t have access to real world performance and data of tens of thousands of cars running across the country for years.
Hi Shreyans, agree with you and I am happy (rather surprised) that newer Tiago EVs are more refined than those delivered in January end / February 2023 (as per my friend who run Tata showroom). He himself own Tata Nexon EV and have done some 26k km and very happy with it.

I feel Tata still have some perception issues amongst people and their showroom staff is years behind competition (Japanese, Korean & to some extent Chinese too) on how to treat customers.

I myself feel that Tiago EV interior look & feel is dated now and waiting for Punch EV.

Last edited by GoBabyGo : 25th May 2023 at 14:14.
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Old 25th May 2023, 14:16   #4
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
Hello Everyone,


If I go basis excel sheet, for strictly city drive buying an EV make sense due to cost I save, if I keep the EV car for longer duration eg. 10 years. The current gen EVs may look outdated after 2 years or so, but that is the case with ICE cars too.
I think the assumption you have made of petrol and electricity prices remaining constant isn't justified.

Personally I would consider a 4% annual rise in electricity cost and petrol prices to fluctuate.
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Old 25th May 2023, 14:36   #5
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Tiago EV owner here. As Shreyas advised, for someone who has access to own charging, there can be nothing better than an EV for a purely city drive. The ease of drive, the low running costs, the ability to close gaps, the ability to run AC in the car without thinking of emissions or fuel, the ease of parking makes this Tiago EV an almost default choice till the EV Punch arrives.
I expect the Punch EV to be priced at a premium going by the spyshots and top versions will surely exceed 15 lakhs.

Some of the cons i have observed so far
Rides like a hatchback, after all you can't defy physics!
AC performance degrades at high ambient temperatures (46-47). I believe some of the cooling is diverted towards battery cooling
Weak FM
Slight plastic noises
Service experience cannot be called satisfying
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Old 25th May 2023, 14:50   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVAdopter View Post
I think the assumption you have made of petrol and electricity prices remaining constant isn't justified.

Personally I would consider a 4% annual rise in electricity cost and petrol prices to fluctuate.
Hi EVAdopter - You are right in your assumption. However, I have taken approximate assumption of electricity price of Rs.10 per unit for year 1 & 2 and Rs.11 per unit from year 3 to 5 & Rs.12 per unit from year 6 onwards which is already more than what we are currently paying for our electricity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldice4u View Post
Tiago EV owner here. As Shreyas advised, for someone who has access to own charging, there can be nothing better than an EV for a purely city drive. The ease of drive, the low running costs, the ability to close gaps, the ability to run AC in the car without thinking of emissions or fuel, the ease of parking makes this Tiago EV an almost default choice till the EV Punch arrives.
I expect the Punch EV to be priced at a premium going by the spyshots and top versions will surely exceed 15 lakhs.

Some of the cons i have observed so far
Rides like a hatchback, after all you can't defy physics!
AC performance degrades at high ambient temperatures (46-47). I believe some of the cooling is diverted towards battery cooling
Weak FM
Slight plastic noises
Service experience cannot be called satisfying
Hi coldice4u - Thank you so much for your update on Tiago EV owner's perspective. I mentioned in my post, this is going to be a 2nd car (atleast for me) and for purely home to office & back purpose. I feel that Punch EV will fit between 9.99 lacs ex showroom for XT level model to some 12.99 / 13.50 lacs ex showroom for top model because Nexon EV Prime range will start after that. I am not expecting Punch EV will have more than 30kWh battery pack.

Last edited by graaja : 26th May 2023 at 17:55. Reason: Please use the EDIT or QUOTE+ (multi-quote) button instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!
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Old 25th May 2023, 15:04   #7
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
I feel that Punch EV will fit between 9.99 lacs ex showroom for XT level model to some 12.99 / 13.50 lacs ex showroom for top model because Nexon EV Prime range will start after that. I am not expecting Punch EV will have more than 30kWh battery pack.
Please do look up the price difference between a petrol Tiago XT and the equivalent Punch. You'll be surprised
Further the Punch already overlaps the Nexon in ICE versions
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Old 25th May 2023, 15:24   #8
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldice4u View Post
Please do look up the price difference between a petrol Tiago XT and the equivalent Punch. You'll be surprised
Further the Punch already overlaps the Nexon in ICE versions
Hi, Nexon EV Prime start at 14.49 lacs ex showroom Delhi and I am hoping that Punch EV top end will be close to this figure. I stand corrected. Thanks.
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Old 25th May 2023, 15:31   #9
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Look up my posts on the Tiago EV thread. The other 2 cars in my household are Nexon and Hector.I would highly recommend the Tiago EV specifically for City usage, as this also offers the quickest break-even of all other options, and is still immensely practical and usable with no significant compromises.
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Old 25th May 2023, 15:59   #10
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
Since Team-BHP is read by millions of people, I would like to have BHPians opinion whether people like me who want to buy a second car for home for strictly city run (& within budget of under 12 lacs), should go for Tata EV (Tiago / Punch) or wait for another year or so for more EVs from other manufacturers. Frankly I am not expecting major EVs from other manufacturers before middle of 2025.
Mainly city use and have access to charging point at parking, it is easy to decide EV is the best.

But whether to go for one of the current EVs or wait, is very difficult to answer. My thoughts:
  • It is unlikely there will be any EV below 20 Lakhs from a large player like Suzuki, Hyundai/Kia, Toyota or Honda in the next two years.
  • Only other non-mainstream EVs like Comet or eC3 are likely to be launched in near future. At this price point, you want cars that sell at least few thousands a month to be mainstream.
  • So we are left with only Tata EVs and Punch EV will come with all the the Tata problems.
  • There is a good chance the current EV benefits may be reduced in future, check news about your state's policy.
So nothing major is going to change in the next two years, this means if you need one now, buy one of the Tata EVs. If can wait a bit, then wait for Punch EV. If you can wait for more than 2 years, then other options may come.
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Old 25th May 2023, 17:32   #11
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

As the car is mainly for city use, I think even waiting will not give you many options.

Consider below points:

* Tata has already introduced all Gen 1 EVs (Nexon, Tigor, Max, and Tiago). So no more gen1 cars. Gen2 will be heavily adapted AlphaArc cars like Altroz & Punch and Omega Arc cars like Harrier & Safari & Curvv. Gen3 will come only after 2025 and may be launched with premium cars first.

* Other OEMs seem to be nowhere nearby in getting a city car. Most launches will be after 2025 and premium vehicles from MS, Hyundai, and MnM.

* For city usage, you need a max of 200km range which can comfortably cover a work week.

* Gen2 cars are mostly premium vehicles (barring Punch, which falls in below Nexon) so mostly will come with battery packs the same as Nexon (30KW &40KW) costing more than ICE by 3-5lk.

* For EV costs to drastically reduce, we have to get better battery tech, which is still in a nascent stage. So EV prices will remain in the current range for the next 5-10 years.

So even if Punch is launched, Tiago.ev will remain the obvious option for City-only usage (maybe even Comet if you like the design).

Last edited by sharathkamath04 : 25th May 2023 at 17:34. Reason: added point
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Old 26th May 2023, 01:05   #12
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
If I go basis excel sheet, for strictly city drive buying an EV make sense due to cost I save, if I keep the EV car for longer duration eg. 10 years. The current gen EVs may look outdated after 2 years or so, but that is the case with ICE cars too.
Have you taken into account the replacement cost of the battery? Because that is not going to last 10 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
Frankly I am confident about the longevity of the EVs on sale in India right now. I feel that Tiago EV, Nexon EV, MG ZS EV etc. will last 2 lacs km easily without any trouble.
Are you confident because you like them or because you have some kind of data on 2lac km run EV vehicles in India?
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Old 26th May 2023, 10:03   #13
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Have you taken into account the replacement cost of the battery? Because that is not going to last 10 years.

Are you confident because you like them or because you have some kind of data on 2lac km run EV vehicles in India?
When the warranty itself is 8 years, 1.6 lakh KMs for the battery and motor which are the critical parts in an EV, it's not a stretch to imagine that the car can last for 10 years. Given that it's LFP, outside of manufacturing defects, 10 years is the minimum life one can expect out of them.

Add to it OG Nexon EV owners comfortably crossing 1L KMs with barely any battery degradation, it just supports the hypothesis.

OP is going to be home charging on AC power only which will also boost the longetivity of the battery and small amount of battery degradation doesn't matter for city usage. Instead of charging once in 5 days, you may start charging once in 4 days worst case which is pretty manageable.

So I think pretty rational way of going about it. Once you get an EV, all this spreadsheet math will go out of the window because it will be hard to drive ICE afterwards.
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Old 26th May 2023, 10:14   #14
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

There are quite a few instances of battery replacement reported by Nexon EV owners in our forum due to issues like sudden drop of charge and vehicle getting stalled.
If the same issue happens after 8 year warranty is over, then the owner has to bear the cost.

I am following this thread closely because I have a similar requirement as the OP, with only difference that my wife will also drive it frequently and often my parents or in-laws will be traveling in it. I cannot afford to have the vehicle stalls on the road due to battery issue. I am also watching the tiago EV thread closely whose booking I canceled to wait for one more year before deciding.
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Old 26th May 2023, 10:15   #15
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re: EV vs Petrol for long-term city usage

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Have you taken into account the replacement cost of the battery? Because that is not going to last 10 years.

Are you confident because you like them or because you have some kind of data on 2lac km run EV vehicles in India?
Car batteries may easily last ten years or more. Will depend on the battery tech, the environment factors and the charging style.
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