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Old 10th June 2024, 16:12   #1
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May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

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Link to April 2024 EV sales thread
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Old 11th June 2024, 11:13   #2
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

We still have a long way to go. Leap to full electric as per me will go via hybrid approach. I hope there is strong push to all forms of hybrid (weak, strong and plug-in). Its there where the investment in technology will need to pan out in order to bring down the costing.
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Old 11th June 2024, 11:29   #3
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

Are the total car sales numbers for May 2024 published yet? been looking forward to those.
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Old 11th June 2024, 12:54   #4
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

FADA EV Retail Data For May 2024.

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Old 11th June 2024, 17:38   #5
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

Interested to see 55% MS in 3 wheeler market! So, for commercial use, EV are being used more than ICE. For personal mobility is where the market doesnt want to graduate to EV but stick to ICE or to hybrids in the interim as the market transitions to EV. Mass transition to EV will need bigger push by Govt in the way of subsidies, charging infrastructure and by companies by way of reducing the buying price of a well built EV with 600+km range, until then, aam-junta will prefer sticking to known devil.

On the side note, many OEMs are rolling back their EV plans and revising ICE plans for the foreseeable future.
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Old 11th June 2024, 19:05   #6
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
We still have a long way to go. Leap to full electric as per me will go via hybrid approach. I hope there is strong push to all forms of hybrid (weak, strong and plug-in). Its there where the investment in technology will need to pan out in order to bring down the costing.
Even from a theoretical point of view, I only see Plug-in hybrids being a stepping stone to EVs.

The other stuff such as weak, mild, strong or start-stop don't make any sense as a stepping stones to EVs.

Do they make sense for some people? Sure, increased mileage will always be loved by the people.

Do they care about the tech that is improving the mileage? I am not so sure. Does it matter if OEMs are implementing cylinder deactivation instead of a mild hybrid system? Should one be given a tax advantage vs the other?

Does a strong or mild hybrid help in improving the EV charging infra by increasing demand? No

Ultimately it's an ICE vehicle and that's not really a bad thing for folks who want one.

Coming to the practicality of plug-in hybrids, with real world data, we know that most plug-in users don't really plug them in which results in their real world emissions being 3.5x higher than anticipated. link

In India, if and when plugin hybrids are available, the folks likely to buy them are ones who may not have charging options at their home or office. For getting a range of 50 - 100 KMs, I don't see folks going out of their way to a charging station, spend a minimum of 30 minutes and travel back. So it's likely that we will follow what's happening in other countries with most using plug-in hybrids as any other ICE vehicle that they own. This will again not provide any benefits to the charging ecosystem.

No doubt EVs have a bunch of challenges to become mainstream but I don't see how hybrids help in solving those challenges.
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Old 11th June 2024, 21:44   #7
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyampsunder View Post
Even from a theoretical point of view, I only see Plug-in hybrids being a stepping stone to EVs.

The other stuff such as weak, mild, strong or start-stop don't make any sense as a stepping stones to EVs.

Do they make sense for some people? Sure, increased mileage will always be loved by the people.
Agree with you. My point was more in context of how the whole ecosystem along with components will develop. A radically new technology in our country like plug-in hydrid may not be easily productized unless we build the entire ecosystem with components.

Are strong and weak-hybrids a part of EV ecosystem? I feel to some extent they are (battery, electronics etc). Along with familiarization to the customer base, the cost normalization will also happen in time with the entire ecosystem.
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Old 12th June 2024, 16:01   #8
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Agree with you. My point was more in context of how the whole ecosystem along with components will develop. A radically new technology in our country like plug-in hydrid may not be easily productized unless we build the entire ecosystem with components.

Are strong and weak-hybrids a part of EV ecosystem? I feel to some extent they are (battery, electronics etc). Along with familiarization to the customer base, the cost normalization will also happen in time with the entire ecosystem.
A few component ecosystems may spring up but by value batteries and motors are the biggest elements and hybrids won't really help there because:

1. Battery manufacturing economies of scale kick in at very large volumes going into gigawatt scale. The batteries for hybrid vehicles are very small and hence the demand for such manufacturing locally won't be enough.

2. All hybrids are using NMC batteries whereas LFP is the leading chemistry in EVs in India. They are more suitable for Indian temperatures and much more degradation resistant. So the ecosystem that springs up for hybrids will have limited value for EVs.

3. Customer familiarisation is something I am not sure about. I don't think most people know or care about the underlying technology unless things go wrong.
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Old 12th June 2024, 21:14   #9
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
We still have a long way to go. Leap to full electric as per me will go via hybrid approach. I hope there is strong push to all forms of hybrid (weak, strong and plug-in). Its there where the investment in technology will need to pan out in order to bring down the costing.
Hybrids are the worst of both the worlds. All the complexity of two systems, including the cost, weight and maintenance and no real benefits other than range, which can be solved by improving charging infra.
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Old 13th June 2024, 00:46   #10
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by shyampsunder View Post
Do they make sense for some people? Sure, increased mileage will always be loved by the people.
Is it mileage or the final ₹/km running cost? Surely that factor of EV and CNG has got people interested in them.

As it stands, the price gap between EV vs ICE and hybrid vs ICE is almost same.

I see so many people pull out MS excel at the prospect of buying EV, but not as many, if at all, for buying hybrid.

Whereas an EV will always breakeven faster than hybrid due to the running cost and servicing of EV being far lower than hybrid.

Quote:
I don't see folks going out of their way to a charging station, spend a minimum of 30 minutes and travel back.
Most PHEVs from mainstream brands donít have DCFC support, not even Toyota. Only few Chinese xEVs launched in recent past have it.

It is impossible to charge in 30min on a 3kW charger that most PHEVs have. Few have 7kW support but again, way beyond reach of most common people price wise.

It is a minimum 2-3h deal, which is fine if the person has home charging but if not, then pointless. You canít sit in a mall or hotel for 3h everyday, not to mention going to and fro the mall will eat some PHEV range as well.

RAV4 Prime is half as efficient in EV mode as Ioniq 5, 2.2mi/kWh vs 4-5mi/kWh. So even when charged on same slow charger, itís 2x costlier than EV charging per km.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
My point was more in context of how the whole ecosystem along with components will develop. A radically new technology in our country like plug-in hydrid may not be easily productized unless we build the entire ecosystem with components.
Hybrids have been in the market for almost 3 decades since the first Prius in 1997, proliferation of battery production only happened after Leaf and Model S came about

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sta...attery-prices/

What is the use of having an ecosystem for three decades when there still isnít a baleno or Brezza segment strong hybrid? (And Iím not talking about the 12V start stop system which even bikes have nowadays)

Funnily, the same brands who tailor make ICE cars to fit in well with Indian tax rules, do not seem to take advantage of already lower 28% tax on sub4m hybrids. Unlike the 43% slab which hybrids over 4m and 1.2P/1.5D (basically all currently sold hybrids) fall into. I wonder why they didnít do for hybrid what theyíre already doing for ICE.

If itís technical problems, then I wonder the gain from having such an ecosystem for so long when it couldnít be made possible. If itís not technical then is it deliberate to get fat margins while playing victim for GST cuts?

@TorqueIndia demonstrated in another thread that Hycross hybrid and ICE model have almost 8-9L price gap. One can buy ICE Hycross + Tiago EV for price of hybrid Hycross, and two cars always have utility of multiple concurrent car users in the family as long as you can park them.

Ok sure, they didnít sell hybrids for three decades in India, but surely where they did, the models shouldíve been cheaper right? Chinese and even Indians using Chinese components (Tata) have made $10K EVs possible. But the same does not exist for hybrid despite being in the business for thrice as long.

I do think hybrid should be offered but I donít think doing so will improve the ecosystem for EVs in any meaningful way.

At best I can hope every apartment parking having individual 15A sockets, but even that is only possible through PHEVs, not regular hybrids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyampsunder View Post
2. All hybrids are using NMC batteries whereas LFP is the leading chemistry in EVs in India. They are more suitable for Indian temperatures and much more degradation resistant. So the ecosystem that springs up for hybrids will have limited value for EVs.
Exactly, some are even using NiMH, like the Camry. So not even remotely helping build scale for eventual EV battery production.
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Old 13th June 2024, 06:09   #11
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by Quicksilver85 View Post
Mass transition to EV will need bigger push by Govt in the way of subsidies, charging infrastructure and by companies by way of reducing the buying price of a well built EV with 600+km range, until then, aam-junta will prefer sticking to known devil.

On the side note, many OEMs are rolling back their EV plans and revising ICE plans for the foreseeable future.
A few weeks ago, in peak summer evening at Paud Road flyover in Pune, while crawling for several minutes with my wife on my Jupiter, inching through a huge traffic jam (dont ask why it was created)- the amount of heat that was being generated by the ICE vehicle exhausts made me realize that there needs to be some transition done at least at a personal level. While we are at BS 6.2, moving to 7.0 and all that good stuff, it is clearly not enough.
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Old 13th June 2024, 06:10   #12
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

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Hybrids are the worst of both the worlds. All the complexity of two systems, including the cost, weight and maintenance and no real benefits other than range, which can be solved by improving charging infra.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shresth_EV View Post
Hybrids have been in the market for almost 3 decades since the first Prius in 1997, proliferation of battery production only happened after Leaf and Model S came about
I totally understand what you all are trying to imply and I also agree with it. But I would still want that diversity in products to be made available to let the customer make that choice.

A full EV should not forced as the only option. I would still prefer a hybrid (A strong or a plug-in) for my own reasons. That is a choice I should be allowed to have as a buyer.

Hybrids have been in the market for 3-decades yes. Then why is it then only now, they showed in so late in India, given India runs on the FE data point so much? What ever reasons that may be (econmics, costing, viability etc.) the fact still remains it took time.
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Old 13th June 2024, 10:19   #13
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Re: May 2024 | Electric Vehicle Sales Figures

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Hybrids have been in the market for 3-decades yes. Then why is it then only now, they showed in so late in India, given India runs on the FE data point so much? .
The answer is there in the question: Hybrids do not make any sense these days, economically, technologically, or environmentally. Particularly in a two car house holds. Get a comfortable ICE car if you want to do a lot of highway trips (not a typical house hold) and cannot be bother to do all the planning required and, a small ev like the tiago or comet for the city trips, daily office trips, grocery runs etc. On the other hand if yours is a typical household (at least in Kerala) a single EV like Nexon LR or ZS EV is a no-brainer. We have been a single car household for close to 6 months and has had no issues what so ever.

Interestingly, I met a road warrior (a textile business man) at a charging stop. He had got himself a nexon ev and does his state wide trips in it. In about 2-3 months he has clocked close to 30K kms and his primary reason was economical (switched from diesel). So EV turns out to be perfect for people like him as well, who does a lot of long road trips.
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