[Bhodrolok]

Good move.

Once a policy decision has been made, we need to stick to it. Companies have created entire roadmaps based on declared policies and any sudden change would toss away all these plans.

The EV adoption is slow purely for the lack of a reliable charging network but that will come if we stick to stated policy. Hybrids are not very different from ICE in terms of fuel & emissions so not giving a tax break makes complete sense.

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

Other states have also started to phase out their road tax waivers. Karnataka started charging road tax on EVs recently.

States need to incentivize EVs too and the union govt should help offset some of these losses. BTW the Karnataka EV road tax is only for vehicles over 25 lakhs, if I remember correctly.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by nandrive

I just said its hypocritical to claim holier than thou when someone tries to virtue signal without following what they preach.

The question is did Norway preach about EVs? They are doing what is good for their citizens.

Leaving the global climate change problem aside, EVs reduce the pollution and particulates in the air greatly in the cities. The health benefits to Norway citizens will be immense.

During covid lock downs, we have experienced great air quality even in Bangalore, we could sense the lighter air, the skies were clear.

https://energy.economictimes.indiati...rway/100123814

[nandrive]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

Leaving the global climate change problem aside, EVs reduce the pollution and particulates in the air greatly in the cities. The health benefits to Norway citizens will be immense.

During covid lock downs, we have experienced great air quality even in Bangalore, we could sense the lighter air, the skies were clear.

I don't really have time to dig into how much of this is due to private cars. Here is a list of worlds cleanest air cities with Sydney topping the list with little less than 10% share of EVs. I don't have anything more to say, people are free to choose what they want. As I said earlier I am not an anti ev, I will definitely buy them one day, not for their green credentials but for their sportier nature.

[TheCarLover]

Originally Posted by GTO

Clearly shows the government's lack of understanding of hybrid benefits, and equally, their frustration with manufacturers (Maruti) trying to earlier market mild hybrids as "proper hybrids".

I believe full & proper hybrids (the kind we see in the Grand Vitara, Honda City & Innova Hycross) must and should get heavy tax benefits. Hybrid's are TODAY'S solution to fuel import burdens and pollution problems. Hybrid tech is capable of doubling (or tripling) the fuel efficiency of any car on sale. EVs are still a long way off from mass adoption. Even manufacturers have realised that and revised their lofty goals of going "all electric" by 2030. Hybrids don't need chargers at home or public charging infrastructure. Hybrids don't need dedicated all-new vehicle platforms.

Some food for thought = In 2023, even with a tiny number of models on sale, Hybrid cars have overtaken EV sales in India.

The fact is, a majority of customers still like their ICE cars .

The government shouldn't choose one over the other. Give benefits to BOTH fantastic new technologies. We need more hybrid car options in the 10-20 lakh space and that will only happen with government incentives.

I agree of what is mentioned. The govt. does not seem to understand the dynamics.
I also heard from someone in the car industry that our electricity infra would not be able to cope with the surge of EVs as the grid might not be able to handle the needs of EV charging. Without proper infra, blindly pushing for EVs feels senseless on the part of the govt.

[volkman10]

Electric vehicles don’t need subsidies now, says Minister

Where does this lead to?

It was unclear whether he meant subsidies given for manufacturing electric vehicles, or on the purchase of electric vehicles through the Faster Adoption and Manufacturing of (Hybrid and) Electric Vehicle (FAME) scheme.

Link:

[sharathkamath04]

I feel we must stop selling pure ICE cars after 10 years. Every ICE must be a Hybrid car with a small battery identical to current mild hybrids. Adding a 3kw battery must not cost a lot nor add a lot of weight.

We must have new cars which fall under :

1. ICE mild hybrids
2. ICE strong hybrids that can charge and run on EV-only mode.
3. BEV

Till this happens tax the pure ICE 10% more and make 1 & 2 10% less tax. BEV must continue at 5% tax.

[TwinBishop]

In India coal still plays a major role in electricity generation. In such a scenario an EV is not as green as it could be.

A strong hybrid does reduce emissions, especially in our cities. In a city with lots of traffic, an ICE car of the size of a Hyryder will probably have a mileage of 8-9 km/l. In the same traffic conditions a strong hybrid Hyryder has a mileage of above 25km/l.

The government could have reduced the GST for strong hybrid cars.

[ferrarirules]

Dictionary definition of Incentive - something that encourages you (to do something)

Lets see a bit of timeline -
2015 - FAME 1 was launched by govt.

2017 - Govt procured 500 Tata Tigor EV and Mahindra eVerito EV via EESL for self use. This shows the intention of govt towards electric vehicles
2018 - The cars provided gives too less a range and were not good enough. Govt scraps the plan to acquire 10000 cars via EESL
2019 - Govt changes approach and thinks on promoting EV production by GST reduction from 12% to 5% and FAME 2.
2020 - Nexon EV first proper electric vehicle of the country goes on sale.

From 2015 to 2024, there was enough time for manufacturers to react and take benefit of the incentives being provided to this space. All the manufacturers did something or the other except the Japanese players.

Govt reducing GST on EVs to 5% was an incentive for the manufacturers to price the vehicles nearer to the ICE vehicle. At the same time they didn't increase the GST on the other vehicles. Now the incentive was given because EVs were never manufactured in India, it is a nascent technology for the whole world. Even production linked incentive is being given for battery manufacturing. All in all govt is trying to create an EV ecosystem so that India becomes a supplier for electric vehicles and batteries to the world. Also govt is also in interested in energy independence (Read More here (Energy Independence - A myth or reality?)) and promoting strong hybrid in cars is not going to get them there.

Hybrids don't need to be incentivized, it is a mature technology which is available across the world and all manufacturers other than Tata and Mahindra sell hybrid and plugin hybrid vehicles outside India. Toyota has been doing it for last 25 years.

To put it in perspective, Toyota is selling Hyryder in CNG, Mild Hybrid and Strong Hybrid. The strong hybrid is neither cheaper than CNG nor the mild hybrid at the same taxation rate.

Where is Toyota's 25 years of hybrid experience to democratize the technology? Where is Maruti's R&D which could have researched Series Hybirds or Plugin Hybrids in the last 9 years (2015-2024) to democratize them for India use?

[Neelavi]

In a country where the most of the population barely makes a lakh per year, I think the Govt has better things to spend money on than incentivising ANY kind of personal four wheelers. It’s better off investing in metro projects with the taxes on cars since no amount of roads will be sufficient to handle the increasing four wheelers on roads and which will only accelerate as the economy grows. A metro would also be far far more environmentally friendly mode. Next best is to increase the density of electric buses. A bonus would be a bit more physical exercise and faster commute times vs sitting for hours confined to the cars in traffic jams!

[saikishor]

Sorry to say, but I don't expect much from babus who barely made it past 10th. I mean, lets face it most of the politicians are almost educated like this only. Heck if they had sense, they would've given incentives and accelerated on setting up charging stations at every fuel bunk to aid for EV adoption. I feel poor guys couldn't make out the advantages of a hybrid and hence decided to leave the tax as is.

[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by TwinBishop

In India coal still plays a major role in electricity generation. In such a scenario an EV is not as green as it could be.

A strong hybrid does reduce emissions, especially in our cities. In a city with lots of traffic, an ICE car of the size of a Hyryder will probably have a mileage of 8-9 km/l. In the same traffic conditions a strong hybrid Hyryder has a mileage of above 25km/l.

The government could have reduced the GST for strong hybrid cars.

Even if all electricity is generated by fossil fuels there are tremendous advantages of EVs. ICE converts about 20 percent of energy into motion. Rest is wasted as heat. Besides, EVs shift the pollution to less inhabited areas. We lose millions a year due to air pollution in our cities.

Besides to see the actual environmental cost of ICE vehicles, you need to factor in the environmental cost of extraction, shipping, refining, shipping it again etc.

Originally Posted by nandrive

Well I may have poor logic, but objectively I can claim that I have superior mathematical skills.

Yes. Nice. Pick on a typo Of course I meant 10 percent which is still huge.

Originally Posted by Pennant1970

You have your opinions - I have mine. And unless you are one of those in the decision making phalanx, mine is as valid as yours. (BTW, the recycling argument is tenuous at best - as far as I can see. I did some research so that I could maybe atart up a battery recycling project. Now, the approach is - leave it all to China, they know what to do. Nice people to trust, as we know.)

The truth is, I am less bothered about putative and unproven gains for tomorrow than I am about what ordinary people -especially in my case, Indians - need. And we are still at a stage where ICE/ICE-adjacent vehicles are the solution.



Peace...

Of course opinions vary but facts don't.

1. A reasonably well looked after EV battery will outlast a car. That's not my 'opinion' but a fact. 4000 charge cycles [this study was conducted by a very reputed institute]. If you do one charge cycle a week, you'll get over 75 years before battery drops to 90% capacity. Please recheck my math as I have already been accused of having poor math skills. Even a poorly looked after EV will give 1000 cycles and at a cycle a week, you'll get 20 years or so.





2. It is a FACT that after batteries reach 90% or 80% capacity they are repurposed for home/factory uses. Some EV factories are off grid by using solar and these repurposed batteries.

AND,

3. it's a FACT that batteries when recycled can be almost completely recycled.

AND

4. it's a fact that battery costs are reducing and battery density is increasing.

Originally Posted by saikishor

Sorry to say, but I don't expect much from babus who barely made it past 10th. I mean, lets face it most of the politicians are almost educated like this only. Heck if they had sense, they would've given incentives and accelerated on setting up charging stations at every fuel bunk to aid for EV adoption. I feel poor guys couldn't make out the advantages of a hybrid and hence decided to leave the tax as is.

Well, this time they have got it right. Hybrids should not get tax benefits.

[Pennant1970]

I have had my say - I have been discussing this with "ecopreneurs" (BTW, I was one of the early users of that term in news reportage) for well over a decade (since 2009, in fact). Numbers say what you want them to say for example, 9 is 90 percent of 10 - similarly, 900,000 is 90 percent of a million.

If you believe in the battery electric path to the future, you are welcome. I won't probably be here in 25 years time to say affirm or refute you. Just make sure you are open minded about everything. This is my last word on this matter. I am not at an age where I want to get drawn into meaningless arguments.

[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by Pennant1970

- similarly, 900,000 is 10 percent of a million.

If you believe in the battery electric path to the future, you are welcome. I won't probably be here in 25 years time to say affirm or refute you. Just make sure you are open minded about everything. This is my last word on this matter. I am not at an age where I want to get drawn into meaningless arguments.

Isn't 900000 90 percent of a million?

Yes, open mind. I would request you to have one too.

[Pennant1970]

Originally Posted by nidhikapoor

Isn't 900000 90 percent of a million?

Yes, open mind. I would request you to have one too.

Thanks for letting me correct that - I suppose my message got through, nevertheless.

Open mind? I am one of the old time liberals - and the reason why we are in this pickle. We let democracy have its way - now, those that got its benefit chain my ilk and I have to hide behind pseudonyms to say even this.

As I said, I have said all I have to on the original subject. GN

[Beemer1077]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

According to a news report on Times of India today, Amitabh Kant, the G20 Sherpa, has said at an event organised by the Mercedes Benz India Research and Development centre, that the 48% GST on hybrids will stay for a long period of time.

Needless to say, when there are people with no brains running the Government and administration, this is expected. Be it previous Government or current Government, I must say that there are idiots filled in them.

The current Government is doing nearly the same as what the previous Government did in 2008 - when Honda Civic Hybrid was launched, as an import it meant the price was twice than regular Civic. Subsequently, Honda slashed prices by 40% to sell all of them. Same happened with Prius when it was launched in 2010.

Right now, the Honda City Hybrid, the Toyota Camry Hybrid, and the more expensive BMW's, Merc's and many other hybrids are absurdly priced higher than ICE models and close to electric counterparts. Given that, we need to start a civil disobedience against such knuckleheads in the Government, or start defaming them or publicly humiliating them. As such, they have not taken serious actions against fuel adulteration, as dirty fuel is a seriously higher contributor of pollutants.

If that is not all, they are imposing 12-18% GST on electric bicycles, which does not make any sense. To add to that, law enforcement agencies are creating entrapment like situations for bicyclists if they are found riding on roads they should not be on where no signs are present - with that, cops stop bicyclists, and slap hefty penalties using various sections of the Motor Vehicles Act, even if bicycles do not need license, registration, or even insurance. Refer the following thread.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/bicyc...mentioned.html (Motor Vehicles Act against Bicyclists: is this applicable even if not mentioned?)