![]() | #676 | |
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Infractions: 0/2 (14) | Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
The JSW own product will be from a newly formed company. First product to be revealed in 2 years time and they will buy EV components from another Chinese supplier which he said are plenty. So it's my understanding that JSW newly formed company will make a new body/chassis and install all the EV stuff from China suppliers much like every other Indian EV maker. Last edited by DIY410 : 3rd December 2024 at 12:53. | |
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![]() | #677 | |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
It needed 50 meters of wire, I had to pay about 8000 for 40 meters (deducting 10m). Installation was free. But obviously for 7.7kW charger the wire cost will be higher. It was the 3.3kW box only. Local electrician was not involved. For the 38kW variant, 3.3kW home charger is sufficient. | |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
To answer your question Autohold and Crawl mode work seamlessly together. When u start the car by pressing the brake, shift to D mode, the electronic parking brake (EPB) is still engaged. So the crawl mode doesn’t kick in till you give a light tap on the accelerator to disengage the EPB. EPB doesn’t disengage automatically if you are not wearing a seatbelt but can be disengaged manually. When stopped at traffic and you remove seatbelt the EPB engages automatically. Last edited by KarthikK : 3rd December 2024 at 13:58. Reason: Please don't use sms lingo such as "u" in place of "you". | |
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![]() | #679 | ||
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: Pune
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
Quote:
So during my third test drive that feature was off and I simply turned it on. That day the executive besides me just went and turned it off in the middle of the drive. I parked the vehicle on the side and asked why he was altering the controls when I was driving the car in motion. He said what if you have to drive an Innova tomorrow, how will you get judgement. I was like why should I drive an Innova when I am buying the Windsor from you? If I had to drive an Innova I would have gone and got one. I am buying the Windsor for the features that I like and help me and my family out. If you turn off a feature under the pretext of judgement and say what if you drive a truck or tractor tomorrow what's the point of me even buying a feature rich car instead of Maruti 800. I told him that there is a reason why there is hill assist and electronic parking brake instead of a handbrake to which he said companies shouldn't the electronic parking brake and it should be replaced back with a handbrake. I just left the conversation there and carried on. But messing with the controls when someone is driving really messes with the focus especially on a new vehicle. Last edited by Ashwathama : 3rd December 2024 at 17:39. | ||
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![]() | #680 | |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Mumbai
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
![]() 2. For MG, the market window for old ZSEV.50 has closed. Hard to pay 19-20L for it when the 59KWH be6e starts cheaper (even if I personally prefer the conservative ZSEV styling). The new ZSEV/ES5 at 60KWH makes sense when launched around 18L starting price. 3. Free from the worry of saving ZSEV.50 sales, MG will introduce Windsor.50. They have the 50KWH ready for Windsor as it is already sold in other markets, but MG might wait for eVitara and Creta EV pricing (and any action from Tata) and then undercut them all, like what they did to nexon and punch EVs. Feb-March 2025 looks like a good time. I hope it also gives MG time to fix the AC or at least add cooled front and back seats to the mid and top variants of Windsor. The Windsor AC is a sales-hurting reputation risk, come summer of 2025. Windsor's mid variant can also save some cost by using base variant's decent looking 17" steel wheels with covers, and that might also improve the ride a little bit. 4. I suspect MG can drop the base Windsor.38 down to a 12.5L starting price. MG-JSW has a major cost advantage due to parent SAIC group's own EV powertrain and LFP battery cell production. Besides, global EV battery capacity utilisation has dropped to ~50%, and that's driving down battery pricing for smaller volume orders and improved LFP generations. 5. Unfortunately, Windsor's original ADAS may never come to India. That low-cost camera based ADAS works well in urban conditions, but it is made by DJI - the same group that makes consumer drones and is suspected of links to the Chinese military. MG-JSW will not take the risk of sharing Indian road data with DJI for training the ADAS, knowing it can effectively kill the company in India. If they want to do ADAS, they might have to use parent group SAIC's ADAS venture with Mobileye. MG may invest in tuning that system for India fully only when they have more premium models like MG4, ES5/new ZSEV ready to do. Actually, it might be a good opportunity for MG to move EV systems software development to India for their exports markets. Helps reduce China-sourced content in exported EVs in place like Europe. The Indian EV market will give us significantly more value for money, before FY2025 is out. I suspect we will see: 1. 35KWH hatchback/micro SUV in the 10-11L bracket. 2. 45-50KWH for 13-15L 3. 60-65KWH EVs for 17-18L. Especially family and comfort-oriented models that don't need 200+ BHP motors and high current draw. That means 2026 can be a bumper year for electric car sales in India (unless central and state govt start hiking taxes). It can happen faster if a player like Geely or BYD manages to seal a JV with an aggressive Indian business group. Last edited by guptad42 : 3rd December 2024 at 19:58. Reason: edited for clarity and removing an error. | |
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![]() | #681 |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: Pune
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review
I agree that the ZS EV 50kw is already dead as it starts at 19L. Now there is a 71kw available in the UK but don't know when that will arrive but as you said it makes more sense to bring the ES5 at 18.9L to compete with the 6e. This is also one of the reasons why I am skeptical of Windsor getting the 50kw just to surpass competition. MG just isn't that receptive to competition. The Curvv 55 will drop to 16-16.5L this month itself with some year end sale. |
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![]() | #682 | |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
Mahindra will share model wise details of Be Xe in January. Start accepting booking in December 2024 itself.Maruti/Toyota will showcase models and may be give a hint about pricing during " Bharat Mobility show" in January and may start accepting booking too. Any proactive car manufacturer will atleast confirm 50Kwh Variant in January itself. A sleepy MG will probably wake up after loosing considerable number of potential buyers to these three manufacturers and in most likely scenario finally confirm 50Kwh variant by March 2025 after noticing three months of dropping sales. Last edited by drsachin : 4th December 2024 at 11:18. | |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Hey folks can anyone advise if the MG e shield actually make sense ? Also need an update on extended warranty and on what are the quotes for the same. Thanks Last edited by KarthikK : 4th December 2024 at 12:11. |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
50KWH can give you real life range of approx. 350km on the highway. The Chinese biggies - SAIC/MG, BYD, Geely etc. have the cost structure to do it at the 13-14L price point in India. I think 50KWH will be the sweet spot of range, price and volumes for the Indian car market. MG-JSW can ignore the 50KWH class only at their own peril. One wrinkle is if JSW is intentionally capping MG/SAIC group cars in India to leave room for their own EV brand. I think it makes more sense to own a majority of MG-JSW and gradually localise production in India. Gives JSW the chance to learn from the Chinese and they have the best EV tech today. | |
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![]() | #685 | |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
Because the Windsor doesn't have ADAS and has a low kwh battery it can afford to keep the price very low at 13.5 lakhs. I don't think the E-Vitara or Creta EV will even try to compete with it as they will have 50kwh battery and ADAS. They all will be gunning for that 17-20L range which is predicted to be dominated by the 6e. So the real threat is actually to the ZSEV and not Windsor by any means. Yes, the Windsor can throw in a 50kwh and start competing with these vehicles by saying they have space and all but then other will be like yes but we have L2 ADAS and then brand trust etc. I mean why would the Windsor want to enter a fight which isn't even theirs to starts with. They have already conquered a territory and are winning it and they don't need to do anything until the next Nexon arrives. You know what a killer move would be? Bring L2+ ADAS with the same 38Kwh battery to the Windsor at 16.5-17lakhs ex showroom. Then you will see the chaos in the market. Currently ADAS is being offered only in the top models. If you want L2 ADAS you are buying a variant which is easily 5 lakhs above the base ex showroom price. 6e, Vitara, Creta all will be offering L2 ADAS above 22lakhs. The Curvv offers it at 22lakhs. If the Windsor brings L2+ ADAS at 17lakhs its game over for every manufacturer. Because then MG will start messing with the consumer mindset. Consumer will be like do I want range or do I want ADAS? If they want range they will go for another car if they want ADAS they know the difference will be easily 5 lakhs between Windsor and others and once again, Windsor will become the most value for money car at 17lakhs. Believe me, at the end of the day consumer has a mindset of 'kaam chala lengey yaar' if they see value for money. Every Windsor owner here including me wanted a 50kwh but we went and simply bought the 38kwh because it was value for money and we all were like 'kaam chala lengey 38kwh mein'. | |
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![]() | #686 | |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
After a serious argument, I was allowed to test ADAS in CRETA. I felt only some selective features like auto cruise control, auto braking while reversing etc are practical in our conditions. lane assist etc were not that useful. in fact, it oversteered at a sharp turn. A realistic range of above 450 km can make it to the prospective list of only single-car possible people. 38kwh means a realistic range of 220-250 km. So a big NO for even city users who would need to do intercity travel on festivals or long weekends because chargers may be crowded on such peak demand periods. And even hiring self-drive cars will be also difficult in that period and moreover, what is the point of owning a car when you can't freely take your family on it on a vacation? | |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
On the other hand if you look at the 6e is marketed like a sportscar under 20L. It's a pure enthusiasts vehicle even from the looks of it. Mahindra is very good with this, with the Thar they targeted a certain type of consumer, with the Bolero another and now they are doing the same with 6e and 9e. They don't want to make an all in one. This is a general EV problem. We need charging farms to be honest. Each farm with 20 chargers, solar operated and support for upto 200-300KW charging which can charge vehicles from 10-80% in 15mins. Yes, the car manufacturers also need to support such fast charging but that's the future in my opinion. A very good thing which Ather did on its charging grid was not allow people to charge beyond 80%. People used to just leave it in charging and wander off for hours and because of security mechanisms, you couldn't even take out the charger. I think such a thing should be implemented in EV charging stations too. 80% in 15mins is ample charge to commute for a very long period of time. It's almost 200+kms in the case of Windsor. Quote:
I agree with you. Auto cruise control really helps in traffic and auto braking in emergency and reverse is really helpful. Rest all features are actually okaish. What I am interested in is Autoparking and memory parking. For many drivers who are even driving for like 2-3 years parking is a huge hassle. | ||
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
ADAS is going to become ubiquitous very soon just like 6 Airbags. All this business of keeping ADAS just for top end variants will eventually end up causing this. A 50 kWh LFP Windsor will cover most use-cases since there is no penalty to charging an LFP battery to 100% each and every time so usable range in everyday use on an LFP battery will always be more than a more expensive per kWh NMC battery (like the one used by the 71 kWh ZS EV) If the ES5 is nowhere to be seen till 2026, MG might as well introduce the 50kWh Windsor since the ZS is not finding many takers anyways. Which would be better for MG? Selling ~500 (and reducing) units of ZS or an extra 2000 units of Windsor is for them to decide. Regarding requirement of longer and longer range cars, many people use cars to travel to a nearby big city, conduct their business and return the same day. Like Pune-Mumbai, Pune-Kolhapur, Nashik-Mumbai and many more city pairs within ~200km (sub 500km return trip) of each other all over India. All of them can be done with a 1 stop strategy on a Windsor 38 or a ZS 50 or even a Curvv 55. The difference being the Windsor will need charging somewhere in Mumbai, while the ZS/Curvv can be charged during tea/snacks break on the way back. A BE6E 59/79 can probably do this without a charging stop but the 50-kWh battery on the ZS can give the additional flexibility of being able to choose the charging stop based on convenience and not necessity. As the number of expressways continue to open up all over the country, these 50 kWh cars will start to feel inadequate due to higher energy requirements of high-speed cruising on 120kph Expressways and the increased distances that can be covered in less time using these expressways. When more of these expressways open up, journeys up to 600-800km may become more feasible for single day return trips and that is when highway range of 500-600km will be felt (Sedans will help unlock this). Depending on the situation around your city, you may or may not need such a long range for the foreseeable future. But 320-350km for now seems to be the sweet spot. Last edited by antz.bin : 5th December 2024 at 13:42. Reason: Added the need for additional range. | |
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![]() | #689 | |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
1. Yes, putting in a larger battery pack into ZSEV can be an option. But it makes less sense due to the converted ICE platform nature of the old ZSEV. It'll be a Tata Motors like mistake thinking Indian EV buyers are happy with this compromise. The new ZSEV and ES5 are both based on completely new EV platform. A faster launch of a new 60KWH model makes more sense commercially instead of trying to fix the now-aged ZSEV. If MG do take the option of increasing old ZSEV's battery, I doubt they will go much above 60KWH. MG will not want to steal the thunder of a new launch by giving the old car a 70KWH class battery, that too a model anyway going off the market within months. They have to think of their product roadmap and what fits where. And look at this way - whichever way MG bring in a 60-70KWH car, whether old ZSEV or new, it still leaves the 50KWH class open as a big gap for MG. Why would MG want to leave that gap open for long? 2. The cost and price differential of ADAS shrinking fast. L2+ ADAS prices have fallen, and L2 ADAS is even cheaper. Which is why you find it on the new Honda Amaze at a price difference of only Rs. 60K (9.70L for ZX vs 9.10L for VX) even after adding in taxation and additional profit margin on higher variants. (As more cars add it, L2 ADAS/adaptive cruise will become an approx. 40-50K add-on. I'll not be surprised by AMT loving carmakers doing AMT+L2ADAS for 1L variant price jump especially in a highly competitive, low demand growth market.) Going by friends and colleagues with ADAS cars, hardly anyone buying ADAS variants in India is actually using the ADAS. A well-tuned city and highway mode ADAS will be particularly useful, but frankly there is still time for ADAS to mature to Indian driving needs well enough to be trusted in daily use by most buyers. And, check the sales %age of ADAS-enabled variants vs non-ADAS of the same model. There are much larger volumes in non-ADAS variants. 3. Of course, the people buying Windsor.38 are happy with the city usage of it, though I suspect summer 2025 will bring a lot of complaints about a weak AC. But MG's challenge is different: a. do MG remain satisfied with 2K-3K per month volumes, and leave open 50KWH class for 12 to 18 months? b. or MG chase blockbuster 5-7K volumes per month and more than make up for any lost ZSEV.50 volumes. Remember they want a 'Maruti Moment' and attempts to make Windsor appear to be a 9.99L car confirm that intent. The 50KWH, already existing, Windsor can do that for MG even without ADAS precisely because of the factor you mentioned - amazing value for money. A 14.5L starting Windsor.50 going up to 16.5L will have tens of thousands of buyers saying 'bina ADAS ke bhi badhiya kaam chala lengey yaar', to borrow your phrase ![]() Though I think MG will wait till March to see what the competition does, and then do a 50K price cut/discount on Windsor.38, and launch Windsor.50 at 14-16L. They will maintain an approx. 1L price differential on the additional 12KWH battery in a Windsor.50. | |
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| Re: MG Windsor EV Review Quote:
Few in my circle bought these as second cars for commuting daily 15-20kms to work. Taking kids to classes and groceries is better met with two-wheelers in most of the metro city in my opinion. When commercial land prices are upwards of 2 lakhs per square yard, except for malls and a few high-end places, having adequate car parking is not feasible for many businesses. That's why we daily see quarrels with security at gyms, supermarkets, and schools for car parking. It is a big headache to take the car to these areas daily. I take the car to these places only when I can't take a two-wheeler like on rainy days etc. Quote:
Limited availability of parking for the second one and the hassle of maintaining the second car (I have been doing it for the last 6 months and it is not worth the effort if you are the only one to drive them) means the majority of the households are restricted to a single car and they will be willing to spend an additional few lakhs for a single all-rounder car instead. For example, a bigger boot is a mandatory checklist for a car even if they might use it hardly few times a year. So, in such a market, an Increased range may make this car fit the requirement of the majority of households rather than an optional/nice-to-have feature like ADAS. Quote:
Yes, Autoparking helps many new drivers. Last edited by sirius : 5th December 2024 at 18:48. | |||
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