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Old 24th October 2024, 16:36   #1
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Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

The Central Bureau of Economy, Trade and Industry of Japan held a workshop on October 7 to share trends in electric vehicle (EV) technology. About 70 auto parts companies in central Japan visited the EV teardown exhibition facility and learned about the body structure and component design features of Chinese-made EVs. As a backdrop to the production of low-cost EVs by Chinese companies, the generalization and in-house production of parts have emerged.

- Japanese disassemble Chinese cars and are surprised by the BYD Yuan Plus

- More than 90,000 parts from 16 models, including BYD's ATTO3 SUV (Yuan PLUS in China), the ET5 from Shanghai NIO, and Tesla's Model Y from United States, were on display.

- One of the EVs that attracted the attention of participants was BYD's ATTO3. The car went on sale in China in February 2022 with prices starting at around 140,000 yuan. Global sales will reach 300,000 units as of March 2023.

- One of the features of ATTO3 is the integration of advancing components. The E-Axle electric drive unit has a total of eight components, including a motor, inverter, and reducer, as well as an on-board charger and a DC-DC converter (DC voltage converter). As a result, component costs can be reduced, and weight can be reduced.

- In addition, BYD is promoting the sharing of parts with other models for the ATTO3 and in-house production. Taking advantage of the high sales volume of EVs, the cost of parts has been reduced through mass production.

- However, there are also some designs that are not perfect, and many people think that the waterproof performance of the car battery is not sufficient.

Sho Kato, head of the department at Nissin Seiki (Kariya City, Aichi Prefecture), who participated in the training program:
Quote:
was surprised by the small number of parts produced by BYD and Tesla. Our company also wants to use the experience of our existing business to enter the EV field
The EV teardown exhibition facility opened in March 2022.

So far, more than 6,000 people from 450 companies have visited. The contents of the exhibition are updated regularly, and four new models are planned to be added by the end of October, including the L9 from Li Auto, an emerging EV manufacturer in China, and the IONIQ 6 from Hyundai Motor in Korea.

In the central region of Japan, Toyota Tsusho also operates Toyotsu Manabu Square (Miyoshi City, Aichi Prefecture), a teardown and exhibition facility for gasoline vehicles and EVs. Parts of Toyota's Vitz and bZ4X are available to partners and other partners free of charge.

The body frame of BYD's ATTO3 installed at the EV teardown exhibition facility:
Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs-1008071l.jpg

Participants of the training session learn about the body structure of Tesla's Model Y,
Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs-1008072l.jpg


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Last edited by volkman10 : 24th October 2024 at 16:39.
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Old 24th October 2024, 18:06   #2
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Re: Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

There were the days when China used try and copy German and Japanese tech and car designs. How quickly have the tables turned that Japanese are analyzing Chinese cars to see how they are made.

Not going into the nitty gritties of how it is done in China but one thing is for sure China just nailed the electric cars and the whole world is in awe of what they have achieved
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Old 24th October 2024, 21:32   #3
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Re: Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

In our engineering industry we don’t trust Chinese products, due to its poor to negligible quality control, for us it’s either US/Europe or japenese and to some extent Koreans now, but surely nothing else.

However, It’s amazing what Chinese are doing with EVs and the cheap products they come up with whether with subsidies, cheap manpower or cost cutting, I will still hold my horses and see their product in long runs, if they can sustain 20+ years, which I clearly doubt.

Have seen their ICE counterparts falling apart within 5 years and few guys who have got into a crash could never got their vehicle repaired due to lack of spare availability, even the insurance companies are going nuts as the car is considered totaled for minor crashes.

But may be EV eco system is totally different for them !! And probably Japanese are trying to see how can they produce cars at such prices without compromising on the quality.

Last edited by NomadSK : 24th October 2024 at 21:35.
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Old 25th October 2024, 10:27   #4
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Re: Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

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Originally Posted by NomadSK View Post
In our engineering industry we don’t trust Chinese products, due to its poor to negligible quality control, for us it’s either US/Europe or japenese and to some extent Koreans now, but surely nothing else.
In my opinion, its actually a myth that Chinese products are subordinate to other products. One check in the US supermarkets and other stores and you will find plenty of high quality products. Majority of them are manufactured in China.

China has 2 types of manufacturing. The low cost manufacturing where cost is the advantage and quality may not be right. We are getting flooded by these products.
Second one is the high quality products and it is still cheaper in price compared to the other high quality products from other countries. USA is getting flooded by these products. Enough to say that majority of the Iphones (including the Pro models) are still getting manufactured in China for their cost advantage. Quality of them is at par or better.
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Old 25th October 2024, 10:36   #5
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Re: Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

I was just watching the MotorInc podcast on the Japanese. They are really lagging behind and not willing to change.
What happened to the British auto industry in the 60's & 70's is happening to the Japanese. And just like how Germans and Indians bought British brands, we may soon see the Chinese buying Japanese brands.
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Old 25th October 2024, 10:53   #6
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Re: Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

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Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
What happened to the British auto industry in the 60's & 70's is happening to the Japanese. And just like how Germans and Indians bought British brands, we may soon see the Chinese buying Japanese brands.
I don't think the Japanese car industry is going to China due to socio-political reasons, but it is most definitely struggling.

Toyota is the only Japanese carmaker which is thriving worldwide, and Suzuki is rocking in India which is its crown jewel. On the other hand, Honda has really fallen behind in technology & quality. Nissan is in the doldrums due to old products + bad reputation + cost cutting (Carlos Ghosn destroyed Nissan)...while Mitsubishi, Mazda, Subaru & Isuzu are Mr. Nobody at the global level.

Germany & China are the only two countries with multiple car brands in very strong positions. Even from USA, there are just two great auto companies (Chrysler is in the doldrums).
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Old 25th October 2024, 14:28   #7
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Re: Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

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Originally Posted by somersault View Post
In my opinion, its actually a myth that Chinese products are subordinate to other products. One check in the US supermarkets and other stores and you will find plenty of high quality products. Majority of them are manufactured in China.
Well you are mixing 2 things, manufacturing and design, the kind of engineering products I’m talking about, you don’t get them in super market or off the shelf. I’m talking about heavy engineering stuff, like reactors, compressors, generators, or super precision equipment like air monitoring devices or gas detectors. Where quality control cannot be compromised. Not saying about some drones or toys.

The quality products you are saying manufactured in china are not designed there, the quality of the material is already decided somewhere else prior to its usage. So basically All high end quality product coming out of china aren’t designed there, they are just manufactured there. Like what India would do if some global company would invest in India.

I’m skeptical for the products which are indegiuosly produced and manufactured by china from the scratch. I have seen enough of their ICE’s counterparts here which are falling apart in few years time. Although they are selling like hot cakes, because of the price parity. I would like to see and read their automotive standards to back up their quality claims.

For us it’s very simple - big/huge equipment look towards US, precise small equipment look towards JAPAN.

Last edited by NomadSK : 25th October 2024 at 14:33.
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Old 25th October 2024, 14:45   #8
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Re: Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

My interpretation of the article, based on Google Translate output, is different:

- The article is written for Chinese audience by Nikkei China (see domain name). That's why the headline says what it does.
- But it is not a Chinese EV teardown & exhibition. It is just a "EV teardown" exhibition. Tesla/Hyundai models too are there.
- This is not Honda/Toyota tearing down Chinese EVs in their R&D centers. It is just a business exhibition organized by a Japanese trading co.
- This exhibition is primarily intended for big & small Japanese auto component makers, who are interested in making EV specific components.
- The claims about weight savings is suspect. If we look at kerb weight of BYD Atto or even MG Windsor, it is comparable to its counterparts.
- While some participants are surprised by the innovation in these EVs, others not so much:

Quote:
Chinese views on quality is different from those of Japanese manufacturers.
Quote:
However, some designs are not perfect, and many people think that the waterproof performance of the on-board battery is not sufficient.

Last edited by SmartCat : 25th October 2024 at 15:06.
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Old 25th October 2024, 18:08   #9
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Re: Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

This is a pretty cool concept. Shows like this could encourage Indian automakers to innovate too.
The Japanese are still not quite convinced that EVs are the way forward. They are still looking at alternative sources of energy and propulsion. There are a lot of OEMs working on solid state battery and hydrogen in a big way there. Any EV you see out of Japan is built as a stop-gap until a breakthrough is made in one of these fields. This should rightly be so. The current crop of BEVs are extremely inefficient in every way to the ICE-powered vehicles. The concept as it is today does not work for the Japanese in their domestic market either.
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Old 25th October 2024, 20:09   #10
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Re: Japanese disassemble Chinese cars to study the art of making cheap EVs

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Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
........ the Japanese. They are really lagging behind and not willing to change.
What happened to the British auto industry in the 60's & 70's is happening to the Japanese.
Working for a Japanese company (in the IT side), I can vouch for how averse the Japanese are to changes. I lost count of the number of PPTs I have made trying to convince the Japanese counterparts even for a simplest change that Indian/American/European IT firms would've approved/done in the blink of an eye.
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