[Sentau]

Originally Posted by Lolafied

Yes. Range prediction is the biggest advantage NMC has vis-a-vis LFP. But if one can charge EV overnight using fast A/C charger, charging to 100% once every 3-4 charges shouldnt be an issue. What I am more concerned is about durability of NMC batteries in hot climates like Hyderabad & with the ever increasing temperatures, this puts even more stress on batteries. So if degradation is high, there is not much we can do after 8th year. Or maybe the technology evolves & makes the batteries cheaper to be replaced.

If you follow the practice of limiting charge to 80%, an NMC battery will give 2000-2500 cycles before degrading to 70%. Even for a car with a smaller battery which on average gives you 300km on single charge over the lifetime of the vehicle, this translates to over 600,000km of mileage. Over 15 years, that is 40,000km every year.

I think people blow up the negatives of NMC too much.

[Lolafied]

Originally Posted by Sentau

If you follow the practice of limiting charge to 80%, an NMC battery will give 2000-2500 cycles before degrading to 70%. Even for a car with a smaller battery which on average gives you 300km on single charge over the lifetime of the vehicle, this translates to over 600,000km of mileage. Over 15 years, that is 40,000km every year.

I think people blow up the negatives of NMC too much.

Agree. The Batteries are said to last longer even before the car starts falling apart. But this is considering the manufacturing quality of batteries is really high. What if the mass scale manufacturing quality of these companies is not that high as Tesla (consider some odd lemons here & there) & also there are some situations like if the car is always subjected to outdoor parking (like my case) & the ambient temperatures are really high. The EV's still haven't run the full cycle of 15 years yet so I am trying to make a guess by being cautious. It is better to err on the side of caution in case of EV's is what I feel. One of the major reason why most of companies prefer LFP over NMC is that they are cheaper but also they perform really good under higher ambient temperatures & are not that easily prone to degradation.

[Sentau]

Originally Posted by Lolafied

Agree. The Batteries are said to last longer even before the car starts falling apart. But this is considering the manufacturing quality of batteries is really high. What if the mass scale manufacturing quality of these companies is not that high as Tesla (consider some odd lemons here & there) & also there are some situations like if the car is always subjected to outdoor parking (like my case) & the ambient temperatures are really high. The EV's still haven't run the full cycle of 15 years yet so I am trying to make a guess by being cautious. It is better to err on the side of caution in case of EV's is what I feel. One of the major reason why most of companies prefer LFP over NMC is that they are cheaper but also they perform really good under higher ambient temperatures & are not that easily prone to degradation.

The quality of Tesla hardware is overhyped. They do not make battery packs which are fundamentally superior to others. The only thing that Tesla has nailed (and has a advantage over others) is the BMS. It is one of the reasons why Teslas are crazy efficient. Hyundai is not bad either. The Ioniq 6, Kona electric and Creta EV all are very efficient vehicles. Even the Ioniq 5 is pretty efficient considering its bulk, size and shape.

We already have a thread by @ADI7YAK where his Kona has done around 200,000km. His battery was changed at 65k km if I remember correctly because manufacturing defect meant the batteries in gen 1 kona were at risk of catching fire. Even so, his new battery must have run over 130,000km now and he still gets the similar range as he did when the vehicle was new. His battery has seen only around 5% degradation in 130,000km. It will comfortably last longer.

Stop worrying about the battery chemistry and buy the car you like.

[ALTIMAed]

Originally Posted by raghavm

Hyundai official website in US and EU states to charge between 20 to 80%. I have also watched many 'expert' YouTube videos on nmc vs. Lfp batteries, and a few quick tips/understanding on NMC -
1. NMC - generally more responsive, and fast charging with more mileage per charge. Could deteriorate quicker than LFP, but read on before concuding..
2. NMC charge life cycle is generally abt 1000 - meaning if you charge from 30 to 80% - it will be counted as half a cycle, not 1. So, in effect you can charge daily uptil 80% without harming the battery. Also, it is actually advisable to charge more no. of times, for shorter duration, say 20-25% daily.

Beg to differ - but the very same applies to LFP batteries also
0% to 100% = 1 cycle
50% to 100% = half a cycle
75% to 100% = quarter a cycle
Experts please comment

[aim120]

Originally Posted by ALTIMAed

Beg to differ - but the very same applies to LFP batteries also
0% to 100% = 1 cycle
50% to 100% = half a cycle
75% to 100% = quarter a cycle
Experts please comment

It's not that simple. One has to look at the datasheet of the battery cell. Usually they mention the cycle life at what SOC and it's never 100% to 0%.

LFP can be discharged down to 0% and they will still outlast a NMC that was following 80% to 30%.

There is a reason LFP is preferred for daily cycling of Solar energy storage.

[Sentau]

Originally Posted by aim120

It's not that simple. One has to look at the datasheet of the battery cell. Usually they mention the cycle life at what SOC and it's never 100% to 0%.

LFP can be discharged down to 0% and they will still outlast a NMC that was following 80% to 30%.

There is a reason LFP is preferred for daily cycling of Solar energy storage.

What @ALTIMAed said was right. One SOC cycle is defined when the depth of charging(and subsequent discharging) adds up to 100.

0-100% is one cycle.
50-100% twice is one cycle and so is 25-75%, 0-50%, etc.
75-100% four times is one cycle and so is 0-25%, 25-50%, 40-65%, etc.
All with the accompanying discharge

The definition of what constitutes a cycle is same for both chemistries (at least as far as I have read).


The difference is that LFP degrades less for one cycle, even when the charge-discharge cycle is unfavourable for LFP (Eg. 0-100% and 100-0%) and favourable for NMC (25-75% and 75-25%). So LFP retains its charge holding capacity for more number of cycles. In local storage applications, all of LFPs benefits shine - longer life (more cycles), cheaper costs and more resilience to heat, while the negatives - higher weight, higher space requirement and potential for faulty SOC readings get suppressed.

Originally Posted by Lolafied

with the ever increasing temperatures, this puts even more stress on batteries (this effect has exponential effect in high SOC's due to micro-cracking). There is a famous video of Dr Dahn where he tells the best practices for keeping the NMC batteries in good shape. Tbh I found the list bigger as compared to LFP type. So if degradation is high, there is not much we can do after 8th year. Or maybe the technology evolves & makes the batteries cheaper to be replaced.

Damn I missed the mention of Dr. Dahn. Man is a true genius and him and his research team are brains behind Tesla's BMS excellence. The points you raise are correct and Dr. Dahn also mentions these (you can also find more information about the thermal effects on batteries in the papers that he drew the data and graphs from). But you missed the main takeaway of his talk. Don't obsess about the best practices that much. Follow the ones you want to follow and use the vehicle as you want to do. The battery will still last plenty long.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by Sentau

What @ALTIMAed said was right. One SOC cycle is defined when the depth of charging(and subsequent discharging) adds up to 100.

0-100% is one cycle.
50-100% twice is one cycle and so is 25-75%, 0-50%, etc.
75-100% four times is one cycle and so is 0-25%, 25-50%, 40-65%, etc.
All with the accompanying discharge

The definition of what constitutes a cycle is same for both chemistries (at least as far as I have read).


.

I get what you are saying but when a battery cell maker tells it lasts xyz cycles. They clearly mention at what depth of discharge that they arrived at those the figures. So its not apple to apple comparision.

Even in Lead acid batteries Exide quote a cycles of 3000 cycles at 50% depth of discharge and 1000 cycles at 80% depth of discharge and less than 800 cyles at 100% depth of discharge for their flagship solar battery.

[Lolafied]

Originally Posted by aim120

I get what you are saying but when a battery cell maker tells it lasts xyz cycles. They clearly mention at what depth of discharge that they arrived at those the figures. So its not apple to apple comparision.

Even in Lead acid batteries Exide quote a cycles of 3000 cycles at 50% depth of discharge and 1000 cycles at 80% depth of discharge and less than 800 cycles at 100% depth of discharge for their flagship solar battery.

This is true. Battery Cycle life is not an independent number by itself. It is hyphenated with DOD (Depth of Discharge). The no. of cycles @ 50% DOD will not be the same as no. of cycles @ 80% DOD. Since nobody does 50% or 80% DOD every single time & since DOD varies on a daily basis, for general understanding it is assumed as cycle life per 100% discharge or partial discharges cumulatively amounting to 100% discharge.

[Praneeth]

Has anyone tried the Hyundai pay option while charging. I couldn’t find any reviews regarding the same.

[rakeshsinha]

I strongly believe that the Creta EV is overpriced by at least INR 2 lakh. The battery appears unsafe as it looks like it is hanging from the outside. Additionally, it has a lower battery capacity compared to the Mahindra BE6 and uses NMC technology. While the Creta's safety rating is considered to be 3-star, it has not undergone a separate NCAP crash test for the EV version. On the other hand, the Mahindra BE6 is superior in all aspects and offers better value for money. Although the Creta does not have software glitches and features a comfortable rear seat, electric co-driver seat, and good ride quality, Mahindra needs to improve its interior comforts. Overall, prioritizing safety is essential, and opting for a safer car like the BE6 with LFP battery and greater mileage is the best choice.

[sharmanova]

Hyundai Seeing Major Demand for Top-spec Versions of Creta Electric.

Hyundai has revealed that it is getting maximum demand for the Creta Electric in the higher-spec Excellence variant. What’s more (and by virture of their variant offerings), is the fact that it's getting maximum demand for the long range 51.4kWh battery pack offered from the Smart (O) variant onwards.

Link

[Ackerman]

Has Hyundai revealed the cost of battery replacement, or given any indication of how much it might be? I'm concerned about lower resale value after 5–6 years, when the warranty period is about to end and potential buyers may be reluctant to purchase it.

[sirishant]

Before I begin, here's an excellent review by BHPian Kevinrevvz, which I agree on every point. The Creta Electric is a uniquely underrated car in the category, whlist overpriced, is a no-nonsense reliable sleeper, and should not be easily discounted. Here I'll talk about some additional things I noticed.

The purchase decision

On March 31, I bid adieu to Lightning McQueen, my reliable fuel-sipper 2017 Baleno Delta.



After testing out every electric vehicle in the segment over a period of more than a year, including all the Tata EVs, the MG ZSEV and Windsor, the Mahindra twins, and even taking a look at BYD vehicles, even going as low as the Citroen eC3, I finalised and received my Creta Electric Excellence LR (without the 11kW charger) on April 03.



The driving experience alone differentiated the Creta apart. The quality of interior (with some parts shared with global vehicles), the UI smoothness and thoughtfullness of daily elements pushed it further. Just one short drive of the Creta, and my mind was blown.

The regen and acceleration was calibrated just the way I expected a proper EV to be. The Tatas didn't come close, Mahindra's BE6 (XEV was out of budget) had bad interiors, and MG, although smooth, had other deal breakers (Windsor: bad ergonomics with the screen, suspension issues, NVH etc.; ZSEV: too old, I had been considering it since pre-facelift in 2021).

The BE6 goes over 30 lakhs in Karnataka due to the taxes on EVs above 25L. This, combined with the long expected wait times for lower BE6 variants (and I didn't want to compromise on features), made that car remain a dream. Creta seems to do everything the comparable BE6 can, without being too loud.

A lot of the pros are very well elaborated in the thread I shared. Here are some of my other observations over the past 45 days with the Creta:

Positives:

[+] Auto Regen is just *chef's kiss*. Combine that with the temporary i-Pedal by holding the left paddle, and your efficiency just skyrockets, while maintaining an engaging drive even though it is an EV.

[+] LFA (Lane Following Assist) is amazingly calibrated. Too bad we need to enable it after each vehicle start; I am now accustomed to turn it on before every drive, making driving so much easier.

[+] Charge door flap locks with the car. I noticed this being absent in the ZSEV/Windsor, and it was weird in a country like ours where parked vehicles get randomly fidgeted with.

[+] Bluelink has been a lifesaver this summer. I always arrived to a chilled car by remotely switching on climate control and ventilated seats, either via my phone or my watch.

[+] Digital car key! I have carried my physical key maybe 1 out of every 15 drives. The physical key works nice with the capacitive door handle (there's no push button to lock/unlock, just reaching the driver side handle with key in pocket unlocks the door!), but not carrying it makes it even more convenient.

[+] ADAS interventions seem to be minimal and only intervene when it absolutely needs to. The Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA) in particular has been amazing and helpful when doing three-point turns with two wheelers doing the "if gap, car."

Negatives:

[-] The manual mentions the feature of mirrors tilting down during reverse - I read about it before purchase and was very disappointed to see they didn't ship it! But the 360 camera with all the perspectives makes up for it, especially the view of distance from curb (both front end rear) makes parking near the curb a breeze!

[-] Slowing down while on ACC (Adaptive Cruise Control) makes use of friction brakes and not regen, unlike Auto Regen mode (w/o Cruise Control).

[-] Can't change regen mode while braking. This includes holding of left paddle after braking. With Auto Regen, it is basically coasting when no vehicle is detected ahead. Without regen, it is like stopping without engine braking. Sometimes it's scary, and takes some learning to hold the left paddle before applying the brakes. i-Pedal (max regen) being so powerful doesn't make transition to the brake pedal a big of a deal, though. Always prefer regular i-Pedal when driving in a rush, and Auto Regen only when driving defensively.

[-] Sunglasses kept in the holder get hot, needing to be held in front of the AC vents for a minute before being cool enough to wear. It caught me out a couple of times.

[-] FWD causes short wheelspins even on the smallest road undulations. TC is good in keeping the wheelspins minute, but it does squeal if you floor it on uneven surfaces.

Elephants in the room:

Born EV?

Well, it is not. But what does a born EV entail? Better space management, bigger frunk, more efficient drivetrain?

For the efficiency front, a lot of information is out there, and more on my experience later on, but what about space? I have no complaints about it, even after experiencing BYDs and Mahindra's interiors. The frunk space may leave something to be desired, no hydraulic struts on the bonnet making its usage a chore. But what matters is the interior space (especially the rear), which felt much better on the Creta than the BE6, where the floor felt really lifted. The floating console is also functional while aesthetically pleasing.

On a sidenote, it seems every new vehicle can only seat 2.5 people in the rear. The Baleno could seat 3 adults easily. Maybe because of thinner door panels?

It might seem the Creta was rushed to be pushed into the market. But from having deliveries right when it was launched (unlike 4 months with BE6), everything in drivetrain and software being sorted, and not needing any recalls, it seems more mature than rushed.

Hanging battery

Although an eye-sore, I have absolutely not noticed any useability downsides to it. Having gone over my fair share of speed breakers, carrying speed and a compressed suspension, and even offroad, I have not had a single impact. The eyesore aspect is also gone once you own the car, it's just a thing you notice and then forget. Might be the one thing in the car that feels Indian jugaad-level, but it's not bad (at least there are no hanging orange wires )

Range

There is a lot of evidence for the high efficiency of the Creta, and my experience is no different. It is so easy to get 8 km/kWh on this. Even for novice EV drivers, it is a breeze to get past mid 7 km/kWh.

Here's a recent trip from a few days ago:

First direction of the journey:

• 4 passengers and light cargo
• Auto Regen (with left paddle to slow down when possible)
• some overtakes with pedal-to-metal (torque is addictive and overtakes are risky on a single lane state highway).

Stats from Bluelink's vehicle report attached:





On the return trip:

• 3 passengers no cargo
• encountered a Creta ICE doing Creta things, I was mildly annoyed
• had a few more pedal-to-the-metal moments with the increased traffic (and also higher ambient temperature shown)

(increased time, distance and reduced avg. speed may be attributed to a very short city drive)

And here's the complete trip at the end of the day before charging:



Which relates to just short of 400 km on a complete displayed charge 100-0 on a spirited drive in Normal drive mode and air conditioning set to 22C.

The range will only get better as peak summer passes. Will keep updating the thread with future trips and better details.

Charging

I didn't opt for the 11 kW charger, since Hyundai was asking ~70k for it, and I could get a 7 kW charger for less than half that price which would still satisfy my needs. Although before making any additional purchase, I wanted to see if the included 3 kW charger would suffice for my current needs, since 7 kW would require additional work from my local DISCOM.

I was relying on DC charging for the first few days before finalizing my charging setup. Peak DC rate I saw was around 44.5 kW, on a 60 kW Tata Power charger.

I found a 3D model for holding the IONIQ's ICCB, modified the holder for the EVSE (the box) to accomodate the one included with Creta, and mounted it on the walls of my garage:





(the ICCB box is inside the garage, and the Type 2 plug side is hung outside)

This setup along with my usual charging from ~35% to 80% (limited via software) happens easily overnight (9PM to 9AM), with the charging rate at 2.8 kW at 12A.

My usual city runs are short and I would charge once every 4-5 days. If I have an out-city trip, I plan accordingly and charge to 100%. The charge limit can be set either in car or via Bluelink, which is useful. The app also accurately represents the remaining charging time.

Conclusion

There's no hype around this car, not a lot of marketing effort being put by Hyundai, and owners being mostly quiet about their experience. From the groups I am in, most of the owners are Doctors, and so is my dad (for whom this car is mainly for) — hence it's a no-nonsense car that gets the job done comfortably without being loud, but being an EV with 170+ HP it does still excite you and does not chug through battery juice while it is at it. And I am saying this after being very skeptical while it was undergoing camoflauged testing, expecting it to be a NexonEV 1.0 level of vehicle! I never thought I'll make this purchase, especially after being drawn to the BE6. One test drive changed it for me.

On paper, it may seem to lag behind other EVs, may it be on pricing, features or power. Reality is very different, after experiencing every EV in the segment. EVs are more than just the brochure, it requires a lot of usability considerations, and the Creta seems to have nailed it on every front, much like the global Hyundai EVs.

[RoJu]

Congratulations on your new car!
Looks like you went with Ocean Blue Glossy instead of Matte. It looks great! Personally, I find the Matte finish a bit dull and it also requires special care.
Could you please share some details about the insurance—how much did it cost you?

[sirishant]

Thanks! The glossy option was pretty easy to choose considering the extra maintenance matte requires. Ocean Blue is the only unique color for the Electric, hence I went for it. Never really liked the ICE Creta design for various reasons (N-Line is better with the spoiler), but the EV especially in this color has been growing on me.

Originally Posted by RoJu

Could you please share some details about the insurance—how much did it cost you?

The dealership quoted 1.49L for the insurance - even they agreed it was insane and couldn't bring it down at all. So I got some quotes from major players online but ended up getting it through New India Assurance, additional covers Nil Dep, Return to Invoice, and most importantly Battery Protect, for Rs. 44.3k

The vehicle on-road (without insurance and charger) was 24.08L. I traded in my Baleno at the same dealer for 4.6L. With my budget extended to strictly under 20L with exchanging/selling Baleno, this fit in really well.