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Old 24th January 2025, 10:41   #1
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Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

I wanted to check if we have EV owners who are exclusive fast charger users?

In other words, do we have people here who have EV cars but do not have any way of slow charging at home?

We are in a situation where we were living in an independent house where we had the 7.2KW wall charger. But due to some work situation we have to move to an apartment where there is no way to have a home charger

(it is a 20+ years old apartment - so installing a home charger is next to impossible due to many factors)

We have an MG ZS EV (2024). There are commercial chargers from Zeon and Statiq in the vicinity. So fast charging is not a problem.

Is it harmful for battery life? Are there any observation that frequent fast charging creates problem for battery management system? Any other observed problems?

Any input from people who might be in a similar situation, or anyone who may have information about this, would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by GS300 : 24th January 2025 at 10:45. Reason: mistake in the year
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Old 24th January 2025, 10:59   #2
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re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

It is okay in the same way that it is okay to eat fried chicken at every meal. You can technically do it, but to the detriment of your car's battery health and performance. Fast charging constantly will destroy your battery life very quickly. You will see atleast a 20% drop in overall capacity within a year if you exclusively use DC fast charging. It is definitely not advisable.

Look for AC chargers near your regular destinations, e.g., the office, a mall you frequent, or a weekend getaway, etc. Charging your car up while at work, or when shopping can save you time and precious battery health.
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Old 24th January 2025, 11:06   #3
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re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

ZS EV, XUV 400, Creta EV, Ioniq 5, EV6 and practically anything else coming from Europe

All of them come with NMC batteries

These should be pretty much OK with *only* fast charging due to slightly more battery degradation than usual.

It is the LFP warrriors of India and China that *need* slow charging to preserve their battery health and warranty.

But usually speaking, as per surveys, cars usually spend 90% of their life parked. If there is a fixed parking spot with a charger, that is the best way to charge, regardless of battery capacity or chemistry.

Edit: My parents place in Nashik is now a 20+ yr old building. They got PM Surya Ghar Muft Bijli Yojana solar installed for 18/20 flats (with space remaining for the last 2). EVs will start pouring in now since everyone has over capacity compared to what they use. So it is not *impossible*.

Last edited by antz.bin : 24th January 2025 at 11:10.
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Old 24th January 2025, 11:41   #4
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re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

Hi, don't do regular fast charging. The solution can be

1. ZS EV can give real world city range of around 270km before the recharge (100% to 15%).
2. Calculate your daily run and see how many time you need to charge your ZS EV in a week.
3. If your running is such that you need to charge your ZS EV once a week then look for the day when you will have no problem in overnight charging (from 8pm to your office going time in the next morning). ZS EV take long time in 16Amp AC charging. Please ensure you give minimum 12 hrs. to 15 hrs. to charge your EV in AC charging.
4. Find out a local car service centre walking distance from your apartment (or nearest one), which have a secured parking space inside where you can charge your ZS EV overnight using 16Amp charging socket. Talk to the owner and convince him to allow you to charge your ZS EV overnight once a week at a nominal charges (e.g. Rs. 10/- or Rs.12/- per unit, I don't know the Bangalore electricity charges). You can even look for a OYO hotel with parking facility near your apartment.
5. Alternatively, talk to your society maintenance agency. They must be having office inside the apartment building where they can allow you to charge using 16Amp AC charging socket. They can allot you one power point and extension cord. While I think this is not possible as my society maintenance agency refused EV owner this in Noida Extension. Try your luck.
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Old 24th January 2025, 12:04   #5
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re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
ZS EV, XUV 400, Creta EV, Ioniq 5, EV6 and practically anything else coming from Europe

All of them come with NMC batteries

These should be pretty much OK with *only* fast charging due to slightly more battery degradation than usual.

It is the LFP warrriors of India and China that *need* slow charging to preserve their battery health and warranty.
.
I believe his MG ZS EV 2024 comes from China with the LFP battery.
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Old 24th January 2025, 12:56   #6
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re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

Some of the DC charging stations also have an option to charge it via 7.2kw AC charger. You could look for such a station.
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Old 24th January 2025, 13:14   #7
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Re: Is it OK to *only* fast charge your car? (No slow charging at all)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GS300 View Post
I wanted to check if we have EV owners who are exclusive fast charger users?

In other words, do we have people here who have EV cars but do not have any way of slow charging at home?

We have an MG ZS EV (2024). There are commercial chargers from Zeon and Statiq in the vicinity. So fast charging is not a problem.

Is it harmful for battery life? Are there any observation that frequent fast charging creates problem for battery management system? Any other observed problems?
Is this a long-term situation or short to mid term Situation, with your changed housing? It may hold the answer.

Irrespective of that though, theoretically, you shouldn't have issues with regular DC charging your car. LFP battery's degradation is sensitive to the rate of charge and amount of charging, ie, it will have to be at slower speeds(1C or less) and upto 100% as many times as possible and from as low as SoC as possible, like say 8-9% to 100% on a 15-20kw DC charger. But this is a complicated and stressful process which will suck the joy out of owning an EV.

Realistically, you could use commercial AC Fast chargers installed in malls and other commercial establishments to do the AC charging when going for grocery shopping or movie night or something along those lines.

Where are you based in Bangalore? May be someone nearby from Team BHP can also offer their space, if possible?

Last edited by Jazzybala : 24th January 2025 at 13:19.
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Old 24th January 2025, 13:19   #8
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Re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

Going against the tide. Today's EV batteries are extremely advanced and can take consistent fast-charging. EV manufacturers know that home / slow charging isn't possible for everyone. Not everyone can get a home charger installed, nor is the human race generally patient to slow charge at a public charger.

Even with continuous fast-charging, you will probably tire of your EV and sell it off (for an upgrade) before anything goes wrong with the battery. Tata gives EV battery warranty for 8 years, while Mahindra is giving lifetime battery warranty (first owner only) on the latest XEV & BE. How many people are going to retain an EV past 8 years? Like smartphones, 3-year old EVs are already outdated. Newer models are far superior.

That being said, I STILL think home-charging is the best:

- Convenient. Fill up at home. Just charge it overnight once a week - that's enough for most people.

- Fast charging is expensive, and will only get pricier with time. In many cities of USA & Europe, fast charging is either as expensive as petrol, or priced higher! Public EV chargers are going to be major profit centers. No one (government included) has installed them for charity. The cost of a fast charger runs into crores of rupees.

- Even if you can fast-charge your EV in 30 - 60 minutes, that still doesn't account for the time to drive to that public charger, the waiting period (if someone is in front of you etc.).

- Slow charging is better for your battery.

- IMHO, every EV owner just has to have home charging. Or extremely reliable fast charging in the vicinity, where the daily running doesn't stipulate charging more than once a week. Else, it becomes a headache.

Last edited by GTO : 24th January 2025 at 13:21.
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Old 24th January 2025, 13:30   #9
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Re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

I bought my first EV a month ago and have got a 22 kw/hr charger installed at home. However, it will only work at half the speed for now as as I need to apply for load enhancement on my meter to get the charger working to it's full potential.

However, I have been contemplating if it's even worth doing that as my per unit cost may go up with the enhancement and isn't it better to slow charge most often?

My EQS 580 is equipped with a feature that slow down the charging rate to a level required to meet your full battery capacity as per your time of departure. Mercedes tips for battery life do suggest lower charging is better for battery life. It also says that it is better to only charge the battery up to 80% not 100% to get a longer battery life.
However, the latter confuses me because if I charge only to 80% I will be charging more often compared to doing it to 100% which means more cycles of charge that is also a deterrent to battery life.

There are several theories out that, not sure which are essential and which are not.
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Old 24th January 2025, 14:24   #10
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Re: Is it OK to *only* fast charge your car? (No slow charging at all)

Thank you all for your quick inputs and perspectives.

I had read up about this and the inputs were conflicting. Some studies done in the USA based on Teslas and Nissan Leafs did not find much difference in battery life when comparing cars that did home charging most times v/s those did mostly fast charging. But then some other reports shows a degradation. So dont know what to believe.

Our own experience while owning Nexon was not very good - whenever we did fast charging, shortly after that we experienced some battery charge related problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzybala View Post
Is this a long-term situation or short to mid term Situation, with your changed housing? It may hold the answer.
Ours is a slightly complicated arrangement where we plan to spend working days at the apartment and visit our house in the outskirts once in two weeks or something. So, slow charging once in two weeks is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzybala View Post
Where are you based in Bangalore? May be someone nearby from Team BHP can also offer their space, if possible?
We have moved to HSR Layout. In fact I have found that there is a BESCOM charger at the Bescom division office, and I think there is one AC charger as well there. But they close it by 9pm is what I heard.
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Old 24th January 2025, 15:01   #11
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Re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrome6Boy View Post
I believe his MG ZS EV 2024 comes from China with the LFP battery.
Oopsy . I remembered the ZS EV came with NMC, forgot that it was the 1st gen one with 45 kWh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Like smartphones, 3-year old EVs are already outdated. Newer models are far superior.
The Cars24 report you shared today says that an average car in India gets sold at 7 years old by the 1st owner. What you said about smartphones is true, but the first time I actually owned a smartphone for >3 yrs is now! Even smartphones (Pixels, Galaxy S/Z series) these days come with 7 year assured software support. Using the same stuff for longer is just better for the environment so we must make decisions accordingly.

Coming to earlier *mass market* EVs that came with 19/24/25/30 kWh were definitely outdated within 3 years, that may not be the case now that new entrants like eVitara / BE6 / XEV9E (/ All new ZS EV?) are coming with upwards of 60 kWh that can most probably do true 400km/charge. There are people who run their cars to the ground and not doing a single > 500km day. Our Honda Civic has not done a 500km day in 12+ years of ownership. How much more range do you really need in 1 charge? I don't think a 60/80 kWh car purchased within 2025 will get outdated in 2028. It will be just as powerful and will have just as much range (read, adequate) in 2028 as well! If anything, the charging infra would be better in 2028.

And looking at the other end of the spectrum, just how much better is the 2025 Tesla Model 3 vs the older Model 3? Not a spectacular amount of difference as per this article. (Just like iPhone 14 v 16 ) So what you say is good for entry level low range EVs, not long range ones which are akin to Flagships like the Pixels / Galaxy S/Z series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahil View Post
It also says that it is better to only charge the battery up to 80% not 100% to get a longer battery life.
However, the latter confuses me because if I charge only to 80% I will be charging more often compared to doing it to 100% which means more cycles of charge that is also a deterrent to battery life.
For traditional smartphone batteries and NMC batteries, a charge from 0-100-0 counts as 1 charge cycle. But a charge from 20-80-20 counts as just 0.1-0.2 instead of 0.6 like it should mathematically. So theoretically, you could get 3-6 times mileage with the same amount of degradation by just keeping the battery between 20-80-20 as compared to 0-100-0 every time. Obviously nobody discharges to 0 every time before charging, so the practical difference will never be that massive.

Edit: The above is not valid for LFP batteries that *need* to charge to 100% for cell balancing and accurate range prediction.

Last edited by antz.bin : 24th January 2025 at 15:09.
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Old 24th January 2025, 19:18   #12
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Re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

I have seen lot of datasheets of LFP battery cells and have made lot of packs.

While the LFP storage batteries have slower C rating for charging, the LFP for EV is higher. But no matter what LFP battery you have, it's perfectly okay to charge them at 0.5C for maximum life. Even if you charge them at their peak speed, the cycle life is still higher than slow charged NMC.

ZS EV has a peak charge speed of close to 1.5C and it slows down the charging speed based on the temperature rise of the cell. Usually the temperature is low below 50% SOC.

Tata DC chargers are rated at 30 kW, this is perfect for DC charging for the life of the vehicle. Jio charging stations in Bangalore also have lot of AC 7.2kW charging and AC charging costs less.

To sum it up, vehicles with LFP can be charged at 0.5C to get the maximum life which is 2000 to 4000 cycles. While new generation LFP cells with 4C to 6C peak charging speed can be charged at more than 1C daily or it's maximum cycle life exceeding 5000 cycles.

LFP batteries are not allowed to exceed 50 to 55 Celsius. While NMC are charged till 60 to 65 Celsius. With some EV like Hyundai do exceed 65 celcius.

There is no such thing as only NMC can be fast charged and LFP cannot be fast charged. This myth comes from the fact that vast majority of the LFP battery supply in the market is for energy storage and the those batteries are designed for much higher cycle life (8000 cycle) and the trade off is the slower charging speed and discharging speed.

Last edited by DIY410 : 24th January 2025 at 19:20.
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Old 24th January 2025, 19:47   #13
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Re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahil View Post
However, the latter confuses me because if I charge only to 80% I will be charging more often compared to doing it to 100% which means more cycles of charge that is also a deterrent to battery life.
Charging from say 20 to 80% does not constitute a full charge cycle since you only charged 60% of the capacity (80-20). So if you did the above twice, it will constitute as 1.2 cycles and not 2 cycles.

That said, your battery chemistry plays a role in how many cycles you can do before you see degradation. My simple formula - slow charge at home and take it to 100% every now and then and you should be just fine.
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Old 24th January 2025, 19:58   #14
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Re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by GS300 View Post
(it is a 20+ years old apartment - so installing a home charger is next to impossible due to many factors)
I can’t seem to get a hold of it now but there is a circular from the govt of Karnataka to the effect that no RWA (resident welfare association) can bar a resident from charging their EV on premise. That means you should be able to install a 16A plug in your car park and no one can stop you. Perhaps it may be too long cabling that is the spoilsport? Maybe you can swap your parking with a resident who can have the plug installed in their parking lot.

If everything fails, look for AC chargers in PlugShare. When I was in Manipal on a temporary basis I always charged at one of three AC chargers in hotels in the vicinity. Never needed to fast charge. Let us know how it goes. As GTO says, slow charging is the best for the battery.
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Old 24th January 2025, 22:27   #15
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Re: Is it OK to *only* fast-charge your electric car? No slow charging at all

MG Windsor owner here, got my car on October 29 2024 and have driven 4k~ KM
I have only fast charged my windsor at public chargers (30/60) mainly because charging at home would be slow @3KW (I cannot increase meter load above 5kw in my society) and during that I cannot use any other heavy appliance like heater/dishwasher/washing machine, etc.

And other reason is, free public charging for 1 year by MG, specially cause I have many fast charging partners near me, so has been a lot of convenience.

I had been reading mixed opinion pieces about fast charging only and its effect on range, and just wanted to post my personal observations.

Since getting the car, I had been getting 240-260~KM range in Delhi-NCR (city) @Normal mode as I drive/accelerate a bit aggressively, while optimal drivers I know are getting 280~ range in city with Normal.
I have gotten 280~ range in eco, while some people are getting 300 and even more in Eco, I guess depends on driving style and road conditions/incline, etc.

One thing I observed for a fact was, range gets affected the more you drive over 80KM~ speed, like can go from 280-240~ when my friend drove on highway with 80-95 speed.
While on expressway (asphalt road), I got around 200~ range when driving 90-110 speed.


That aside, coming to fast charging observations, since last week I have been noticing that my range in city has gone from 240 to 200 only (2KM/%), I observed it for more than a week and the first thought that came to my mind was on the topic of Battery cells not getting calibrated properly due to fast charging.

I did my first slow charging (20% to 93%) today at home (3KW) and will see the range it gives when I go out tomorrow/weekend and will update here.
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