[beemer5499]

So I am in line to get my first EV, XEV 9E and be a beta tester for the same. Till now, I had been hearing about how EVs are cheaper to run and low cost, etc but truth be told, I don’t think many know about the costs of buying and owning an EV.

Lets start with the costs one by one:
1) Higher upfront cost - Compared to ICE equivalent, EVs cost almost 15-20% more, even though the road tax is nil in many states for EVs.

2) Cost of the charger - Most 11 Kw chargers from manufacturers cost about 75k and 7Kw chargers cost 50k. Exicom chargers cost 38k for 7.5Kw and 43k for 11 Kw as per Amazon prices.

3) Cost of home set up - There is additional cost in ramping up the sanctioned load from your electricity provider and switching to 3 phase connection from 1 phase. This will also ramp up your monthly electricity bill. There is also an additional cost involved in case one is getting a separate connection for the EV also sometimes known as a green meter. This cost will be in the ballpark of 50-75k.

3) Insurance cost - Insurance for EVs is apparently slightly higher compared to ICE vehicles.

4) Cost of resale - The resale value for EVs is lower compared to ICE vehicles even though the modern batteries can last for a significant number of kilometres and also since EVs have less moving parts, they will be relatively maintenance free or have cheap maintenance if purchasing pre-owned.

5) Tyres - Since EVs are heavier and more powerful, tyres on EVs last less and since they’re often specced with big tyres and alloys, the replacement costs are expensive.

6) Brake pads - I suppose the brake pads on EVs last less compared to ICE, given the power figures and the instant torque leading to more frequent braking.

7) Cost of discounts/price reduction - An EV which you buy today may see discounts or price reduction in the very near future due to the battery costs becoming lower or newer technology becoming available.

Given all this, I feel if someone calculates, an ICE car will work out to be cheaper than an EV unless someone clocks insanely high mileage in a short ownership. Just that the daily/monthly expenditure with an EV will be lower.

I am still figuring out whether to upgrade my household connection to 3 phase and increase the load to 12 Kw to support the 11 Kw charger and bear increased electricity bills irrespective of usage or get a separate meter for EV charging and bear a one time expense and fixed charges as per usage.

There is also no clear procedure on how to get a separate EV connection from BSES in Delhi and team-BHP guides are limited to Maharashtra and Bangalore. Request experienced members to guide on this and also if someone could help compare the expenses of both options as well as the cost of owning an ICE vs EV.

Also, I don’t think a 15A/3Kw charging would suffice to charge a daily runner with a 79 Kw battery pack as it would probably take 2.5 days to fully charge the car at that speed. Lastly, all this is wasteful expense if the next car isn’t going to be an EV as well and one isn’t a full convert.

[Karthik Mathur]

This makes a lot of sense, and I'm experiencing a lot of these feelings as I'm going for an EV too. One main reason i decided to shift to EV is due to the fact that I have decided to go for solar and there is a government subsidy for it. However, there are other costs that I'm slowing discovering.

1. Increased security deposit - every kw Increase results in an increase in security deposit. It can easily go upwards of 20-30k when you go upto 15kw (11kw for the charger, 2-3kw for regular usage, 1-2kw buffer). And the rule of thumb is existing load + charger kw so it could end up going beyond 15 too.

2. Conversion to 3 phase - this requires laying of new cable from the electricity box to the meter box of much greater thickness (16sqmm is what I put). This comes at 140 per m so you can do the math depending on your circumstance. You also need to add a new MCB for connecting to your home, and another MCB specifically for the the EV charger (as told by Mahindra's EV charger team). You'll also need to put a new cable from the meter box (the MCB to be precise) to your home which also needs to be of higher quality (4 or 6 sqmm). And this activity will not be done by the electricity board people so you'll have to involve your local electrician
Ideally, you should also change the internal wiring to 3 phase but that's an activity i have put off for now, maybe take it up during the next painting/ renovation.
I have noticed that a lot of new buildings (10-15 years+) in Mumbai/ Navi Mumbai already come with 3 phase connections and a sanctioned load of upwards of 7 or 8kw. So the pain and cost will definitely be lower there.
Fixed rate increase is something that the OP already spoke about.

3. Follow-up tax aka timecost- Literally no activity happens exactly on time and after telling them just once. You'll need to do a lot of follow-ups, multiple visits to the electricity board office to get things approved, some minor facilitation charges to get a test Certificate from an authorised contractor, coordinating with multiple people. While MSEDCL has an online portal, no one takes a look at it on their own. So you'll have to take a print, visit the office, wait for the main guy, he won't turn up so do the same thing again. And then again go to follow up to check why it has not been authorised yet. And here's the kicker - they won't authorise an increase all the way to 15kw without the charger actually installed or at least submitting proof of booking. So you might end up doing this in multiple stages.

If I were to apply the charge out rate that my firm uses for my time to bill to clients, this whole endeavour would be loss making from Day 1. Maybe private players are better, but we don't have an option to choose our electricity suppliers so here I am.

Human memory for difficulties is short and I probably won't even remember these steps in a few years. It would just be BAU and I'll enjoy the benefit of lower running costs. All I now hope is that the XEV is not a dud (especially on mileage) and the beta tester costs aren't too high to pay.

[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by beemer5499

Lets start with the costs one by one:
1) Higher upfront cost - Compared to ICE equivalent, EVs cost almost 15-20% more, even though the road tax is nil in many states for EVs.

2) Cost of the charger - Most 11 Kw chargers from manufacturers cost about 75k and 7Kw chargers cost 50k. Exicom chargers cost 38k for 7.5Kw and 43k for 11 Kw as per Amazon prices.

3) Cost of home set up - There is additional cost in ramping up the sanctioned load from your electricity provider and switching to 3 phase connection from 1 phase. This will also ramp up your monthly electricity bill. There is also an additional cost involved in case one is getting a separate connection for the EV also sometimes known as a green meter. This cost will be in the ballpark of 50-75k.

3) Insurance cost - Insurance for EVs is apparently slightly higher compared to ICE vehicles.

4) Cost of resale - The resale value for EVs is lower compared to ICE vehicles even though the modern batteries can last for a significant number of kilometres and also since EVs have less moving parts, they will be relatively maintenance free or have cheap maintenance if purchasing pre-owned.

5) Tyres - Since EVs are heavier and more powerful, tyres on EVs last less and since they’re often specced with big tyres and alloys, the replacement costs are expensive.

6) Brake pads - I suppose the brake pads on EVs last less compared to ICE, given the power figures and the instant torque leading to more frequent braking.

7) Cost of discounts/price reduction - An EV which you buy today may see discounts or price reduction in the very near future due to the battery costs becoming lower or newer technology becoming available.

Partially agree on some of your points.
1. Upfront cost: Yes, EVs are expensive compared to their ICE counterparts

2. Cost of Charger: Most EVs come with own chargers and it's included in the cost. There are good alternatives in the market which are 1/2 the price of ones offered by manufacturers

3. Don't think so, Insurance cost is similar to ICE cars.

4. Cost of Resale: At the moment, Yes. Mainstream EVs are about 5 yrs in the India market. This is evolving and might tilt in the favour of EVs, if the emission norms get stricter year after year.

5. Tyres: False, my earlier ZS EV had similar wear and tear after 50000kms as the ecosport.

6. Brake pads: False. With regenerative braking in EVs, brake pads will last twice as longer on EVs. This is only true if one doesn't use regen. I am used to the Brake boost mode in my iX1 and very rarely use the friction brakes. The regen braking does 95% of the braking and even brings to the vehicle to a stop.

7. Cost of discounts/Price reduction: This is true for all cars and not specific to EVs.

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by beemer5499

Lets start with the costs one by one:
1) Higher upfront cost - Compared to ICE equivalent, EVs cost almost 15-20% more

Only partly true. For example, the BMW iX1 now sells for a lower OTR price in Mumbai than the BMW X1, despite being a long wheel base variant.

2) Cost of the charger - Most 11 Kw chargers from manufacturers cost about 75k and 7Kw chargers cost 50k

3) Cost of home set up - There is additional cost in ramping up the sanctioned load from your electricity provider and switching to 3 phase connection from 1 phase.

Many EVs come with the charger included in the price - but I agree you should treat the cost of the charger, the cost of upgrading your electricity connection and of the wiring to your parking slot as part of the upfront cost of your car.

3) Insurance cost - Insurance for EVs is apparently slightly higher compared to ICE vehicles.

Do shop for insurance - I got insurance with the same coverage at less than 50% of the original list price when I bought my Ioniq 5.

4) Cost of resale - The resale value for EVs is lower compared to ICE vehicles

This is quite irrelevant and may change with time. The price of new EVs before taxes will keep falling since a Moore’s Law type dynamic will apply. But the negligible GST and Registration on EVs won’t last forever, and may offset this decline. Plus the NPV of resale value is very small if you intend to hold a car for 8 years, as I usually do. And in metros, you run the risk of ICE bans making your resale value far lower as EV adoption rises. I think this could be an advantage for EVs

5) Tyres - Since EVs are heavier and more powerful, tyres on EVs last less and since they’re often specced with big tyres and alloys, the replacement costs are expensive.

The theory that EV tyres last less is something people have mentioned. But this is something one has to wait and watch to get more data on. I think larger tyres and alloys make cars look more attractive and are always worthwhile.

6) Brake pads - I suppose the brake pads on EVs last less compared to ICE

Wrong - as brake pads actually last longer since most of the urban braking uses regeneration. Some people abroad have talked of EV brake pads lasting over a 100,000 kms.

7) Cost of discounts/price reduction - An EV which you buy today may see discounts or price reduction in the very near future

Irrelevant - how does it matter what someone else pays for a car. My Ioniq’s price has fallen 20% vs when I bought it - but that does not hurt me. An X3 today costs more than double what I paid 8 years ago - but I don’t gain because of that either.

And the running cost of EVs is much lower than that of petrol cars - for my Ioniq vs Tiguan, the difference is ₹13 per km - which implies savings of ₹260,000 km over 20,000 km in 16 months.

[somersault]

Particularly in Mumbai, the electricity cost is exorbitant because of the fixed cost, wheeling charges, fuel adjustment charges, taxes and what not. I have a 3 phase connection and the sanctioned load of 11 KW is already there because of multiple electrical equipment including 3 ACs etc.

In a nutshell, considering all extra charges, my per unit cost is Rs 11 and it can go to Rs 12 or more if my usage increases. In the last couple of years alone the cost has increased from max Rs 8 to Rs 12. We talk only about published unit rates but not the combined rate.

While I do not own EV but when I was considering the new car purchase, EV was considered and current electricity cost including the cost of increasing the sanctioned load was considered. In addition, the rate of increase of the total bill was considered and the idea was dropped.

Note - This may not be true for other people. But just sharing the details which applied to my case.

[antz.bin]

Regarding expensive chargers and 3 phase conversion and increasing loads to 15 kW and wheeling charges. I mean is it even required?

Why are people getting such high power chargers in their parking in the first place?

You can easily get about 30-35 kWh of energy in you car in a 10 hour overnight charge on a 3.5 kW charger. That is 180-210 km of usage a day on any EV which does at least 6km/kWh or 167wh/km which is actually very poor mileage IMO. If you use less than that number of km, you can charge again and reach a higher State of charge the next morning.

On a BYD Seal, it is a 40-45% charge. 25% to 70% overnight.
On an Ioniq 5, it means it can add almost 50% battery. So 20-70% charge.
On a ZS EV/ Creta 50, it is 70% charge, or 20-90% charge.
Anything smaller (Nexon / Windsor / XUV 400 / Creta 42) it is almost a full charge!

Emergency travel? You can always use a Public DC fast charger! I mean, is a faster charger even required?

My family is new to the EV game and our XUV400 which was delivered a couple of weeks back is being charged exclusively by the 15Amp plug in our parking which the Ather was being charged from for almost a year. Not faced an issue yet. It is on a smaller city (Nashik) but I don't know many who would be commuting 180-200km everyday regardless of what city they live in.

If you do have daily usage exceeding 200km, please, for all means, get that 7.2 kW charger. But for everyone else, wouldn't a 3.5kW charger be enough?

[CafeRacer16]

Great points mentioned but I feel not all will be applicable for all buyers.

Regarding resale value, majority people in our country including me don't purchase a car by seeing this aspect.

Regarding home charging, I live in a rented place so can't get a home charging setup done but its not a deal breaker for me as we have an EV charging station in my apartment & office (again this is atleast applicable for majority in metro cities). Since its not like you have to charge the car everyday, one can live with it.

As mentioned by Hayek sir in his example, since the cost savings are substantial (I drive a turbo petrol in ORR Bangalore traffic) & with battery tech improving, I feel more acceptance will be there for these vehicles.

[ADI7YAK]

Much has been said in the last few replies, I will add my few cents, coming from a personal experience of owning and driving an EV for over 1.8 lakh kilometers.

Originally Posted by beemer5499

5) Tyres - Since EVs are heavier and more powerful, tyres on EVs last less and since they’re often specced with big tyres and alloys, the replacement costs are expensive.

Not true. My last set of tyres, Continental UC6 in 215/55/R17 lasted over 70k km.

Originally Posted by beemer5499

6) Brake pads - I suppose the brake pads on EVs last less compared to ICE, given the power figures and the instant torque leading to more frequent braking.

It in fact is exactly opposite of what you have said. My car is running on it's first set of brake pads for last 1.8 lakh kilometers and they show no significant wear.

You can refer to this (Hyundai Kona Electric @ 1,85,000 km update | Cost of ownership) thread of mine compiled over the age of the car to get a better understanding of insurance, tyres, and servicing costs.

[mally2]

Originally Posted by beemer5499

So I am in line to get my first EV, XEV 9E and be a beta tester for the same. Till now, I had been hearing about how EVs are cheaper to run and low cost, etc but truth be told, I don’t think many know about the costs of buying and owning an EV.

Lets start with the costs one by one:
1) Higher upfront cost - Compared to ICE equivalent, EVs cost almost 15-20% more, even though the road tax is nil in many states for EVs.

Most Bhpian's have already commented on other points; in some cases especially mass-market EVs its quite possible to see price parity on EV compared to ICE, case in point the nexon EV is cheaper than the equivalent Nexon ICE Automatic

[Karthik Mathur]

To the posts about charging the car overnight everyday, is that recommended for LFP batteries? Or are we supposed to drain it till 50% and then charge it back to 100% to maintain battery health and ensure accurate % reading?

[VSEV85]

Originally Posted by beemer5499

So I am in line to get my first EV, XEV 9E and be a beta tester for the same.
=====
Also, I don’t think a 15A/3Kw charging would suffice to charge a daily runner with a 79 Kw battery pack as it would probably take 2.5 days to fully charge the car at that speed. Lastly, all this is wasteful expense if the next car isn’t going to be an EV as well and one isn’t a full convert.

I agree with your point of resale value and higher initial costs.. Every other point, be it tyre life, insurance cost and Brake pads life is false.

I currently drive a ZS ev which has done around 150000 kms. each set of tyres lasted 60k kms. I haven't changed the brake pads yet. I was told they will last another 60 to 70k by the service center.

The lower resale value is taken care of the savings on fuel. I have spent around 85000/- on charging during my road trips to drive a total of 1.5L kms, that's around 0.5 paise per km. My home charging cost is nil as it is solar powered. It's around Rs. 9/- savings per km compared to a petrol vehicle. A total of 9*150000 =13,50,000/- saved in fuel costs.

I had been offered 9,50,000/- for the vehicle in the second hand market. If the fuel savings is considered in the cost of the vehicle, the cost of the car is only 2L {(cost of vehicle (25L) - savings on fuel(13.5L) = 11.5L - Resale value(9.5L) = 2L )}.

[RJK]

Originally Posted by somersault

Particularly in Mumbai, the electricity cost is exorbitant because of the fixed cost, wheeling charges, fuel adjustment charges, taxes and what not. In a nutshell, considering all extra charges, my per unit cost is Rs 11 and it can go to Rs 12 or more if my usage increases.

Absolutely right. Over 500units, it ends up costing Rs 15/unit. We have Adani power & that's what it costs us right now. I'm trying to have a separate meter installed for the EV as we end up paying higher unit cost for charging the vehicle

[rohanshivi1]

Originally Posted by speedmiester

Partially agree on some of your points.
1. Upfront cost: Yes, EVs are expensive compared to their ICE counterparts

2. Cost of Charger: Most EVs come with own chargers and it's included in the cost. There are good alternatives in the market which are 1/2 the price of ones offered by manufacturers

3. Don't think so, Insurance cost is similar to ICE cars.

4. Cost of Resale: At the moment, Yes. Mainstream EVs are about 5 yrs in the India market. This is evolving and might tilt in the favour of EVs, if the emission norms get stricter year after year.

5. Tyres: False, my earlier ZS EV had similar wear and tear after 50000kms as the ecosport.

6. Brake pads: False. With regenerative braking in EVs, brake pads will last twice as longer on EVs. This is only true if one doesn't use regen. I am used to the Brake boost mode in my iX1 and very rarely use the friction brakes. The regen braking does 95% of the braking and even brings to the vehicle to a stop.

7. Cost of discounts/Price reduction: This is true for all cars and not specific to EVs.

Correct! I agree to all the points mentioned in the discussion except that Tyres wear and tear in no way can be compared to the similar ICE vehicle as the EV's are heavy in addition to the torque they have that pushes the vehicle in a much different way than an ICE engine not to forget another fact that ICE engine stops when brakes are applied however the constant regen of EV keeps reducing the speed as soon as the pedal is lifted which again adds to constant wear and tear of the tyres.
Just my 2 cents!

[shankar.balan]

Since this thread talks about costs I want to just add a real-life perspective.

I bought a Mahindra Thar AT HT Petrol in Feb 2021.
I paid 17.5 lacs for it on road including insurance and OEM accessories and all.
If I count all the additional accessories and ‘essential’ upgrades, well I must have spent another 2.5 lacs after buying it.
I used to do approx 800kms a month in it.
I used to fill 10,000 Rupees worth of Petrol each month.
Apart from that, all those standard annual services and oil changes and brake pads and this and that used to set me back another 8000-12000 per annum.
Tyre balancing and wheel alignment, rotation etc was done twice a year and used to cost about 4000-4500 each time.


I sold the Thar in Feb 2024 having completed 3 years and 30,000kms in it. (Honestly I became terribly fatigued with it and was no longer interested in spending that kind of money each month for the use of the Guzzler.)

I bought a Hyundai Kona EV in March 2024.
I paid 19 lacs for it including insurance and all, on road.
If I count all the accessories Ive bought for the Kona, I would have spent 60,000/-.
In the months in which I ve driven it for 800kms, I have charged it in public high speed chargers as well as a few normal chargers, but I have only spent 1200 To 1500 Rupees to do so.
The servicing in Year 1 has cost me Rs 4734 including tyre balancing and wheel alignment and rotation.

This means Im actually spending less than 12 to 15% of the cost, to cover the same distance, as compared to the Mahindra Thar.

There is really no comparison.

[BSASLR]

I was wondering suppose we buy BE 6 with 89kWH Lithium Battery and in few (2-3) years a solid state battery gets introduced in the market.

That Solid state battery will not fit in BE 6:

• The Voltage and Power management system (BMS), power electronics and motor controllers are not meant for that battery
• The cooling thermal management system also is different
• Software is not compatible
• It has to be a physical fit to the battery bay

So the value of my vehicle will drop, however maybe the cost of the Lithium battery will also drop hence replacement of existing pack will be cheaper.