Doubt - Maximum Resolution Pics

Gordon · 11th March 2006, 14:25

Have you noticed that if you take a pic from ANY camera [be it a cell camera or a proper digital camera] at the highest resolution available and view the full size pic, you'll find it to be distorted or not very clear. But when you view the same pic at about 50%, the pic looks proper, more smoother and MUCH better than at 100%.

Rehaan · 11th March 2006, 14:35

Nope,

Its probably because you are running your monitor (or more likely LCD screen) at a resolution that it is not designed for, or not at its "ideal" resolution and refresh rate.

are you?
cya
R

ksethuram · 11th March 2006, 15:03

This is because of JPEG distortion. It occurs mostly in low resolution mages with small features or abrupt edges, such as from a low-end digital camera/ cellphone camera. With a high resolution image (300 pixels per inch) (taken in Digital SLR's), there will be no abrupt edges, and you can JPEG at a high compression without harming the image at all. These high-end camera's provide image in RAW format which can be downloaded to a PC and converted to the desired format.
Also some manufacturers provide digital zoom which is nothing but using software to zoom. In this case the resultant picture would be distorted.
All these distorted pictures when reduced in size (50% or less) loose their software zoom and thus look proper and smooth.

Rehaan · 11th March 2006, 15:27

Hey ksethuram,

I dont think what gordon is talking about is JPEG compression.

However, you did bring up a good point about the digital zoom, (i HATE it, and there are VERY few instances when anyone should ever use it.) BUT... the thing is when you shoot with digital zoom it produces a picture that is at a lesser resolution than what your camera is set to (correct me if i am wrong). So that shouldnt cause the problem he is experencing...

cya
R

ksethuram · 11th March 2006, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rehaan

BUT... the thing is when you shoot with digital zoom it produces a picture that is at a lesser resolution than what your camera is set to (correct me if i am wrong).
R

A camera performs an optical zoom by moving the zoom lens so that it increases the magnification of light before it even reaches the digital sensor. In contrast, a digital zoom degrades quality by simply interpolating.
In this case the resolution of both images (optical and digital) would be the same but the quality will suffer as details available to the sensor before and after digital zoom would be the same. ie a small area of the sensor would be used to provide the full resolution picture which ultimately results in lesser quality.
Please have a look at http://www.photoxels.com/article-opt...ital-zoom.html for more details regarding digital zoom, optical zoom and resolution.

Rehaan · 11th March 2006, 17:04

Hi Ksethuram,

I am familiar with how digital zoom works, however i seem to remember that a camera i had used in the past "cropped" the image to a lower res instead of "stretching" the image to whatever the set resolution was. Wasn't sure if the "cropping" was the norm, esp since i never use this feature, but i guess it is not. In which case digital zoom on pics could definitely be a factor causing gordons problem.

cya
R

ksethuram · 11th March 2006, 17:13

Yes Rehaan i too hope gordons problem is bcz of digital zoom, as he has mentioned "at the highest resolution available and view the full size pic, you'll find it to be distorted or not very clear". We will wait form him to confirm.

Gordon · 11th March 2006, 20:00

Quote:

Its probably because you are running your monitor (or more likely LCD screen) at a resolution that it is not designed for, or not at its "ideal" resolution and refresh rate.

I am using 1280x960 resolution and 60Hz refresh rate on a 17" Samsung Monitor.

Quote:

We will wait form him to confirm.

No I am not talking about digital zoom. I hate it and have never ever used the feature till date. What I mean is this:

This below image is in actual size. Look at the texture of the lights. Look at the background on the left. They look grainy.

Now notice the same image in 50% size. They are more smooth and clearer.

vivekiny2k · 11th March 2006, 20:12

@Rehan, i think u have not worked with average rated cameras ;-).
it does happen if u take a old (pre 2003) HP or fuji. nikons were always fair in their performance IMO,

i think why that happens is the best they can do is that grainy pics. but when u take at 50%, the whole CCD is still used, but after compressing it looks better. like any other scenario where if u resize the image, fewer details are needed and hence the quality looks much better.

precisely the reason why I buy 3 or 5 MP camera, and then use 1 MP size format. because i am not going to use that size anyways.

Gordon · 11th March 2006, 21:36

Quote:

precisely the reason why I buy 3 or 5 MP camera, and then use 1 MP size format. because i am not going to use that size anyways.

Exactly. When I take pics in 1 Megapixel mode, the quality is amazing unlike the 5 MP mode. Why can't we have such quality in the high mode for which the camera has been made for?! The problem seems to be in all camera's I've seen.

Rehaan · 12th March 2006, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon

I am using 1280x960 resolution and 60Hz refresh rate on a 17" Samsung Monitor.

Just make sure that that is THE reccomended setting for that monitor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

@Rehan, i think u have not worked with average rated cameras ;-).
it does happen if u take a old (pre 2003) HP or fuji. nikons were always fair in their performance IMO,

Hi Vivekiny2k,

I have had my fair share of average 0.3 and 1.3 MP cameras in the past, but in this case due to prior knowledge i was aware that gordon uses one of the newish Sony 5MP cameras (atleast its one of the cameras he has used) in which case this should not be that obvious in the pictures.

Well i guess the reason could be what vivekiny2k mentioned, and as ksethuram mentioned - change your camera settings to ues the "super fine (highest quality least compression) JPEG setting. Also try and reduce your ISO setting (the lower the number the less grainy the pics).

Try and let us know if that makes a difference.
cya
R

Gordon · 12th March 2006, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Just make sure that that is THE reccomended setting for that monitor.

It is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Well i guess the reason could be what vivekiny2k mentioned, and as ksethuram mentioned - change your camera settings to ues the "super fine (highest quality least compression) JPEG setting. Also try and reduce your ISO setting (the lower the number the less grainy the pics).

That pic was taken in Super Fine mode. See the details below:

SLK · 12th March 2006, 09:32

Gordon I get what you are trying to say. Always happens with me too.
To put it in simple terms.... you have a 1000W music system.... you use it at full output ... the voice cracks. But if it was a 2000W system .. it won't crack when it is used at an output of 1000W.

My guess is.. digital cameras are slightly over-rated with their Mega-Pixels. They are not actually capable of that exact 5MP pic with full detail under all surroundings.

Gordon · 12th March 2006, 09:40

You guys have a digital camera, right? Click a pic with maximum resolution, no zoom, in the open and post the actual size here without any change.

binz · 12th March 2006, 12:38

Hey......if you take a pic at 5 mp without stability,dont expect it to be clear.To take the best pics from your cam,buy a tripod;it really helps.Next turn of your flash.If your digicam permits,reduce your iso rating to increase exposure time(heres where you need the tripod to keep the cam steady).Follow these steps and youll get your 5mp pics wothout it being grainy.

chao,

binz

11th March 2006, 14:25	#1
Gordon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,546 Thanked: 483 Times View My Garage	Doubt - Maximum Resolution Pics Have you noticed that if you take a pic from ANY camera [be it a cell camera or a proper digital camera] at the highest resolution available and view the full size pic, you'll find it to be distorted or not very clear. But when you view the same pic at about 50%, the pic looks proper, more smoother and MUCH better than at 100%.
	() Thanks

11th March 2006, 14:35	#2
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,042 Thanked: 34,074 Times	Nope, Its probably because you are running your monitor (or more likely LCD screen) at a resolution that it is not designed for, or not at its "ideal" resolution and refresh rate. are you? cya R
	() Thanks

11th March 2006, 15:03	#3
ksethuram BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chennai , London (now) Posts: 233 Thanked: Once	This is because of JPEG distortion. It occurs mostly in low resolution mages with small features or abrupt edges, such as from a low-end digital camera/ cellphone camera. With a high resolution image (300 pixels per inch) (taken in Digital SLR's), there will be no abrupt edges, and you can JPEG at a high compression without harming the image at all. These high-end camera's provide image in RAW format which can be downloaded to a PC and converted to the desired format. Also some manufacturers provide digital zoom which is nothing but using software to zoom. In this case the resultant picture would be distorted. All these distorted pictures when reduced in size (50% or less) loose their software zoom and thus look proper and smooth. Last edited by ksethuram : 11th March 2006 at 15:05.
	() Thanks

11th March 2006, 15:27	#4
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,042 Thanked: 34,074 Times	Hey ksethuram, I dont think what gordon is talking about is JPEG compression. However, you did bring up a good point about the digital zoom, (i HATE it, and there are VERY few instances when anyone should ever use it.) BUT... the thing is when you shoot with digital zoom it produces a picture that is at a lesser resolution than what your camera is set to (correct me if i am wrong). So that shouldnt cause the problem he is experencing... cya R
	() Thanks

11th March 2006, 17:04	#6
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,042 Thanked: 34,074 Times	Hi Ksethuram, I am familiar with how digital zoom works, however i seem to remember that a camera i had used in the past "cropped" the image to a lower res instead of "stretching" the image to whatever the set resolution was. Wasn't sure if the "cropping" was the norm, esp since i never use this feature, but i guess it is not. In which case digital zoom on pics could definitely be a factor causing gordons problem. cya R
	() Thanks

11th March 2006, 17:13	#7
ksethuram BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chennai , London (now) Posts: 233 Thanked: Once	Yes Rehaan i too hope gordons problem is bcz of digital zoom, as he has mentioned "at the highest resolution available and view the full size pic, you'll find it to be distorted or not very clear". We will wait form him to confirm.
	() Thanks

11th March 2006, 20:12	#9
vivekiny2k Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai Posts: 1,264 Thanked: 209 Times View My Garage	@Rehan, i think u have not worked with average rated cameras ;-). it does happen if u take a old (pre 2003) HP or fuji. nikons were always fair in their performance IMO, i think why that happens is the best they can do is that grainy pics. but when u take at 50%, the whole CCD is still used, but after compressing it looks better. like any other scenario where if u resize the image, fewer details are needed and hence the quality looks much better. precisely the reason why I buy 3 or 5 MP camera, and then use 1 MP size format. because i am not going to use that size anyways.
	() Thanks

12th March 2006, 09:32	#13
SLK Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DL XX XX XXXX Posts: 1,634 Thanked: 1,011 Times	Gordon I get what you are trying to say. Always happens with me too. To put it in simple terms.... you have a 1000W music system.... you use it at full output ... the voice cracks. But if it was a 2000W system .. it won't crack when it is used at an output of 1000W. My guess is.. digital cameras are slightly over-rated with their Mega-Pixels. They are not actually capable of that exact 5MP pic with full detail under all surroundings.
	() Thanks

12th March 2006, 09:40	#14
Gordon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,546 Thanked: 483 Times View My Garage	You guys have a digital camera, right? Click a pic with maximum resolution, no zoom, in the open and post the actual size here without any change.
	() Thanks

12th March 2006, 12:38	#15
binz Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,306 Thanked: 431 Times View My Garage	Hey......if you take a pic at 5 mp without stability,dont expect it to be clear.To take the best pics from your cam,buy a tripod;it really helps.Next turn of your flash.If your digicam permits,reduce your iso rating to increase exposure time(heres where you need the tripod to keep the cam steady).Follow these steps and youll get your 5mp pics wothout it being grainy. chao, binz Last edited by binz : 12th March 2006 at 12:58.
	() Thanks