[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Any idea what the error says? BSODs could be driver related or hardware failure related.

I will keep a note of it and post it here. Can't rule out bad ram. Multiple errors were reported though.

What does annoy me is Windows 10 updates. There seems to be no way to turn it off or manually trigger it. No matter what you do, it will install during a shut down or restart.

[psvinay]

Has any one who upgraded from Win8.1 to W10 faced these problems (and solved them)? Can any one help with the following?

I have a HP laptop which came with Win8.1 pre-loaded. Every thing was fine, and then Win10 came along. My laptop was eligible for auto upgrade and it went through without any issues what so ever. Even after the upgrade, things are ok except for two!!!! (btw my upgrade happened several months ago).

Issue No:1 - This is happening from day-1 post upgrade. When I switch on my laptop with main power attached (main power ON), the display will go off once the win-10 loads-up. When the screen go dark, I press the power button once. It will take the machine to sleep mode. I hit the power button again, and every thing comes back normal. If I starts my laptop WITHOUT the main power attached, this display issue don't occur. But whenever I attach the main power, display will go off. I have to then go to sleep mode and then wake up to get the display back. Don't know how to solve this.. It is annoying, but worst case scenario, I can live with this.. My second issue is lot more troublesome.

Issue No:2 - Laptop does not connect to wireless network. This was not an issue post upgrade. For couple of months, my laptop was connecting to the wireless networks as expected. Then suddenly from one morning onwards, it would not connect to wireless networks. Not just to ONE specific network, but to all available networks (my iBall router based wireless network, android wireless hotspots, Windows phone wireless hotspots etc). I have tried reinstalling the driver files, downgrading the driver version etc etc.. In the past several months, It did connect few times, but then it will not have internet access. 99.99% of the times, it will not connect.. The following screen shots will give you an idea of what I am facing. If any one has a solution for this, please help. Thanks..

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

No. I have had quite a bit of success assembling rigs with the components of my choice. Apart from support, you don't really stand to gain much buying a brand.

I beg to differ. I buy at least a dozen PC/Servers every year since the 90s, that run Windows on it. Almost all of them are branded, but a rare few are from local assemblers when I want it real cheap. Guess which ones experience BSOD or other failure? Assembled ones. There is a very good reason for it and I have explained it many times over the years.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...ml#post1175400 (Windows Vista Discussion Thread)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...ml#post1433179 (iBhp - Think Different (Team-BHPians on a Mac))

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...ml#post2105814 (Mac OS 10.7 "Lion" to be unveiled)

Jaggu's experience: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...ml#post1433212 (iBhp - Think Different (Team-BHPians on a Mac))

I have dozens of DELL/HP servers at customer locations that are 1-10 years old that are running our software 24x7 from day one, with zero failures. These are running Win2003/Win2008/Win2012, etc. If frequent BSOD were the the norm, I would be out of business long back.

[Landkruzer]

Originally Posted by psvinay

Issue No:1 - This is happening from day-1 post upgrade. When I switch on my laptop with main power attached (main power ON), the display will go off once the win-10 loads-up. When the screen go dark, I press the power button once. It will take the machine to sleep mode. I hit the power button again, and every thing comes back normal. If I starts my laptop WITHOUT the main power attached, this display issue don't occur. But whenever I attach the main power, display will go off. I have to then go to sleep mode and then wake up to get the display back. Don't know how to solve this.. It is annoying, but worst case scenario, I can live with this.. My second issue is lot more troublesome.

Sometimes, doing a clean install of OS helps to solve some problems. If you have time and energy, you can do a clean install of Windows 10 using a Windows DVD. Since your computer is already activated, you dont need any windows 10 product key.

Make sure to back up you data before attempting the above and make sure you have the installation software and product keys of all the software installed that came with your laptop or you have installed after buying it.

After installation, sometimes you may need to manually upgrade the device drivers from Device Manager.

As a temporary solution, you can get a USB wifi dongle to get wifi connectivity. (This is what my cousin did after all his attempts to solve the wifi problem failed on his Windows 7 laptop )

[psvinay]

Originally Posted by Landkruzer

As a temporary solution, you can get a USB wifi dongle to get wifi connectivity. (This is what my cousin did after all his attempts to solve the wifi problem failed on his Windows 7 laptop )

Thanks.. May be, this is the only solution.

[raghu.t.k]

Originally Posted by Samurai

So, let me get this right. You build a PC using various parts, and install windows. When it fails Microsoft gets the blame.

Then you buy a Mac pro off the shelf which comes with MacOS, and it works fine. Apple gets the credit.

I want to see somebody build a Mac Air or Mac Pro using various parts and try installing MacOS and then tell their story.

Samurai-san, The rig was built based on the compatibility list provided by motherboard manufacturer ie.Asus. So ideally there should not be any issues. But a small tweak here or there is enough to get it to become unstable. That said, it is still serving the purpose as the main PC & File server at home.

Mac pro is my first mac and was only to experience the mac world, and no better justification My main workhorse is still windows. What I was highlighting earlier was the world of difference in the experience.

Regarding building a mac, not my cup of tea, since using it requires a lot of learning and unlearning. Not sure what debugging / troubleshooting would require.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Samurai

There is a very good reason for it and I have explained it many times over the years.

I am not going to deny anything that you say. You run a business. You can't afford to have problems like these surface, hence, you rely on a brand who will take care of it. I am well aware of the stress testing done on a branded computer. That is why the workstation that I use at my work spot costs ten times over what I assembled. Do I need such an expensive workstation at home? No.

The computer that I rigged before the new one is still working and its 7 years old. The only reason I replaced it is because it had slowed down for my needs today. One part failed, the GPU, and it was easily replaced. Later on, the ram or the ram slot was acting up. That is when I decided I needed a new one. Oh and windows never crashed even once. This is superb reliability for something that I put together. Off course, I did not rely on my computer store on choice of parts. I decided what exactly I wanted and put it together. As you should be aware, you can buy run off the mill parts and build a computer. You can choose to spend more on better quality parts that match, if not better a branded computer. I always chose the latter.

I can't think of buying a branded computer. A laptop is a different thing. For personal use, they don't make sense and I am not running anything mission critical at home. I might recommend one for a close buddy but I'll still be inclined to take the assembled route. I'll probably get older or slower hardware compared to the one I rig. A branded computer specification that matches the computer I rig costs significantly more. There is also the joy of building your own rig. There is so much variety and quality of components you can buy. I will agree that my latest rig is acting up but there will be a solution that will solve my problem. This was also the first time I bought a copy of Windows. I expected it to work better than my previous assembled rig.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I can't think of buying a branded computer. A laptop is a different thing. For personal use, they don't make sense and I am not running anything mission critical at home. I might recommend one for a close buddy but I'll still be inclined to take the assembled route. I'll probably get older or slower hardware compared to the one I rig. A branded computer specification that matches the computer I rig costs significantly more. There is also the joy of building your own rig. There is so much variety and quality of components you can buy. I will agree that my latest rig is acting up but there will be a solution that will solve my problem.

Trust me, I understand all these reasons, I am a techie since the 80s. What I don't understand is why all the blame goes to Microsoft when Windows fails to run on the custom rig you have put together. Or why it's stability gets compared to a MacOS running on factory built Apple computer.

If you want to compare stability, compare factory built PCs to factory built apple computers. Please don't compare the stability of DIY PC to factory built apple computers.

MacOS has higher record for stability because they only run on Apple made hardware. But Windows tries to run on any contraption people put together by mixing and matching parts from various manufacturers. If it fails sometimes, it is not entirely their fault.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

This was also the first time I bought a copy of Windows. I expected it to work better than my previous assembled rig.

Windows is more complicated than ever, so it has lesser tolerance than earlier versions towards DIY PCs. The hardware integration has to meet higher standards than before, that means lot of system testing, which is quite outside the scope of DIY enthusiasts.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Samurai

What I don't understand is why all the blame goes to Microsoft when Windows fails to run on the custom rig you have put together.

Please note that BSOD is a problem with branded equipment too running Windows 10. I can say for sure that it impacts some of HP's Elitebook laptops. This problem is not limited to assembled computers.

Microsoft have had a history of pushing updates without fully qualifying them.

Like I said earlier, I never had any trouble at all on my previous rig running Windows 7 and later Windows 8. Not once did I run in to a bsod or any form of a crash.

Originally Posted by Samurai

If you want to compare stability, compare factory built PCs to factory built apple computers.

Okay; I agree that was a wrong comparison. However; I have observed the difference in performance, especially when it comes to handling heavy media content, between a branded Windows computer and a Apple Macintosh. My wife uses a current gen Dell laptop and a loaner previous gen Apple iMac. Multiple applications are handled much better on the Mac. There is no comparison. Video Editing and Photoshop are seamless. Memory management is superior. Stability is unmatched.

Don't take my word for it. Try it yourself and you will agree.

My hunt for a new computer included comparisons to a Intel 4th generation based Mac Mini that is still sold. Posted some queries on the Mac thread too. The top of the line Mini was going to cost 70k. This machine is not high end in any sense of it. The performance of the Mini was quite the opposite though. There were some tasks where it out paced a 5th gen Intel equipped branded computer of a higher specification. How did it manage this? I have no idea. The only thing that held me back from the Mini was the fact that it was really old as a model.

Originally Posted by Samurai

MacOS has higher record for stability because they only run on Apple made hardware.

I did mention this on one my earlier comments. Its the same story when you compare Android to iOS.

Anyway; moving on to the problem that I am facing. I spent about 3 hours on my desktop today. Before that, I popped the hood and re seated the ram, looked for loose wires, etc. Found nothing out of place.

I was working on my sons passport application. All good. This took about an hour. I use Pale Moon x64 browser. After completing the passport work, I loaded up Peppa Pig on YouTube for my 4 year old and within seconds, ran in to BSOD with the error Memory Management. This error has been different in previous crashes. Had to hard reboot. In this process, Windows installed some updates and clean rebooted on its own. I uninstalled Pale Moon and used Edge to resume Peppa Pig. All good for the next hour. No crash. I am going to resume The Big Short movie and lets see how it goes.

[Samurai]

BSOD happens when either a hardware or a device driver of a hardware has a problem. This rarely happens with a Microsoft provided device driver, but with custom drivers from third party who don't get to test as much as Microsoft. So, you shouldn't really be blaming Windows for it.

Anyway, I have had more painful experiences with iMac actually. My brand new 27 inch i7 iMac in 2010 arrived DOA. Two years later this happens, and I finally gave away the iMac to my apple team when I realised that the tech support could barely diagnose problems. The 2TB drive died last year, we plonked a SSD and keep it running. It has no apple care now, any major problem, we have to throw it as the repair will be too expensive.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by raghu.t.k

1. Looks like a driver problem. You could check with Lenovo support if they have a driver update for Windows 10!!

2.Its better to switch off Auto update in systems that run continuously, as done in many organisations.

3. Microsoft is more like a trial an error stuff!!

1. He was advised to remove the secondary USB Drivers. Does not work in my case. remember our systems differ only by less than a month in age!
2. Not possible on Home, can only be dome on the Pro.
3. Well said, they make the trials, and we face the errors. It is unfortunate nothing came from the Lindows initiative. Linus stability with a Windows front end - wow!

[sandeepmohan]

My apologies to the group for making this sound like a Microsoft fault. I am definitely not taking back my comments on the fact that they have pushed out rogue updates.

I ran in to another crash yesterday while looking at the Maintenance logs. This time it was System Thread Exception Not Handled. I opened up the Memory.DMP file but the language in there was above my head. The bad news is, there might be a genuine hardware issue. Got in to the Bios to find that I was running old firmware. I did not bother updating it cause it did not pose a problem till a few days ago. However; while moving around the various Bios screens but not changing any parameters, the system froze.

Originally Posted by Samurai

BSOD happens when either a hardware or a device driver of a hardware has a problem.

Much appreciate your guidance.

[raghu.t.k]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

.....

However; while moving around the various Bios screens but not changing any parameters, the system froze.

Try removing all the DIMMs and just try with 1 or a spare which you know is good. Also have you set any other parameter on the memory profile ?

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by raghu.t.k

Try removing all the DIMMs and just try with 1 or a spare which you know is good. Also have you set any other parameter on the memory profile ?

Unfortunately, there is only one 8gb DIMM.

I have not tweaked memory parameters, or any parameter in the Bios.

[Landkruzer]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

It is unfortunate nothing came from the Lindows initiative. Linus stability with a Windows front end - wow!

How about android on PC? I have installed it on my age old Dell 330 desktop and it is working well(with some limitations). With the availability unlimited apps and games from Play Store, the Android x86 can be a good alternative for those looking for inexpensive home PC.