[Joxster]

Originally Posted by Samfromindia

Intel 10th Gen Desktop chips are reviewed. They managed to beat their AMD counterparts in gaming while staying cool also For people like me who mostly uses computer for gaming, browsing & image processing using Photoshop + Lightroom, cores with higher clock speed matter more than number of cores. I really didn't expect Intel to take back the gaming crown, but they managed to do that.

No doubt Intel still holds the gaming crown (by a small margin, but a win is a win), and the fact is that if high FPS gaming and Photoshop usage is all you want from your PC, then Intel is the best CPU for that. However, I politely disagree with what you said about the chip remaining cool.
In the last screenshot you posted, the non-OC 10900K CPU is touching 70C, and the OC 10900K is touching 85C even with a 360mm closed-loop water cooler, and also in a room with a low 21C ambient temperature - those are high temperatures for a 10 core CPU. Can't imagine what it would be like to try running this CPU overclocked in India without a custom water-loop.

Here are some more detailed reviews from very respected tech channels. Please watch or skip till the end for their conclusions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O1nhAd7V9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYvz3dObHws&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I656fTow6Ow

Cheers

[Samfromindia]

Originally Posted by Joxster

However, I politely disagree with what you said about the chip remaining cool.

Realistically speaking, Gaming, Browsing & Photo editing are the only things i do on my PC, so does many people i know. Video editors / Bloggers will find the Ryzen much more beneficial though. I think in the test both systems used same closed loop cooler and there was a temperature delta of around 10 degrees C, which is not bad for a 14nm vs 7nm. Of course Ryzen wins hands down no doubt, but the delta is much better than AMD systems of yesteryear's. The benchmarks of mainstream 10600K will release soon and finally we will see a realistic comparison between that and 3600 and have an overview of processors most people will actually buy Back in the notebook world, things are much better for AMD 4000 series which is outperforming 10th gen both in multi-core workloads & in games.

Just went through Hardware Canucks video, i already watched the other two. It has a nice comparison of 10600K, LTT have also given some. Will wait for more detailed gaming comparison in other channels. Like Hardware Unbox mentioned, all boils down to pricing

[Joxster]

Originally Posted by Samfromindia

Realistically speaking, Gaming, Browsing & Photo editing are the only things i do on my PC, so does many people i know. Video editors / Bloggers will find the Ryzen much more beneficial though.

And realistically speaking, I honestly can't understand why you (or anyone for that matter) would opt to buy a processor on an outdated architecture, that:

1. Is less power efficient - being more expensive to run in the long-term
2. Runs hotter - thereby degrading other components in your case faster, while also needing more beefy cooling
3. Needs a new socket - which will only be valid for the 10th gen CPUs, so is a completely dead-end platform
4. And on top of being so far behind in technology costs more than than its competition

All of these negatives for a 10% higher FPS in gaming, and slightly better Photoshop performance? I can only speak for myself when I say that I know what I will choose, and I will vote with my wallet when Zen 3 (Ryzen 4000) desktop processors release later this year.

Originally Posted by Samfromindia

I think in the test both systems used same closed loop cooler and there was a temperature delta of around 10 degrees C, which is not bad for a 14nm vs 7nm. Of course Ryzen wins hands down no doubt, but the delta is much better than AMD systems of yesteryear's.

You're comparing the heat generated by a 16 core & 32 thread CPU in the same die-size area as the heat generated by a 10 core & 20 thread CPU. By AMD cramming those extra 6 cores in the same space, it is expected to generate a lot more heat, but it still runs cooler, and that's the effect of 7nm for you. It's a humongous difference!

Also, let's not bring in the failures of the past when talking about the current situation. Intel had us trapped on a 4 core mainstream platform until AMD upped their game with the Zen architecture in 2016. Every product has its flaws. Ryzen's flaw is memory latency, everyone knows this, and AMD is working on lowering it with every new generation they release.

Originally Posted by Samfromindia

The benchmarks of mainstream 10600K will release soon and finally we will see a realistic comparison between that and 3600 and have an overview of processors most people will actually buy

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQVBlCfb72M

Cheers

[Samfromindia]

Originally Posted by Joxster

Needs a new socket - which will only be valid for the 10th gen CPUs, so is a completely dead-end platform

All of these negatives for a 10% higher FPS in gaming, and slightly better Photoshop performance?

You're comparing the heat generated by a 16 core & 32 thread CPU in the same die-size area as the heat generated by a 10 core & 20 thread CPU.

Also, let's not bring in the failures of the past when talking about the current situation. Intel had us trapped on a 4 core mainstream platform until AMD upped their game with the Zen architecture in 2016.

Agree with all your points. Intel is also charging a premium over competitive AMD counterparts in most places.

Coming to the new socket, Alienware had sold Area 51m laptops with desktop i9 part saying they will be upgradable in future. However with the latest 10th gen chips its not possible. So there is a rumor if intel will release any 10th gen chip with 1151 socket.

https://youtu.be/nWVlYP7QpEg

The 10% higher FPS in games is with 2080TI cards i think. The difference will be lesser with mainstream 1660, 2060 & 2070 SUPER cards which most people will buy.

I thought he is comparing with similarly priced 12C 24T 3900 & not 3950. Of course the temperature & power draw is much more than 7nm counterpart relative to performance.

Intel have still trapped notebook i5 users to 4C 8T even on 10th gen So any midrange notebook buyer looking for some horsepower need to settle for no less than i7 which comes with 6/8C option while comparable 4600 is offering 6C right out of the box !

https://youtu.be/XJy2cnHuhcY

Thankfully, 4C vs 6C doesnt matter much in games, at least for last gen:

https://youtu.be/dpZw16wTlmY

[Joxster]

Originally Posted by Samfromindia

The 10% higher FPS in games is with 2080TI cards i think. The difference will be lesser with mainstream 1660, 2060 & 2070 SUPER cards which most people will buy.

Exactly! And this is a point which a lot of people fail to understand. The tech reviewers use high-end GPU cards at lower settings to show the gaming difference which is CPU-driven. In reality, most people will have lower-tier GPU cards which already makes the gap negligible, and then they play those games on the maximum settings which their GPU will allow them to, which makes the game experience GPU-bound in most cases.

Originally Posted by Joxster

Needs a new socket - which will only be valid for the 10th gen CPUs, so is a completely dead-end platform

I actually need to correct myself on this point. Gigabyte leaked that the LGA 1200 socket will support 11th gen Intel processors, and although Intel themselves haven't confirmed this yet, we can assume that that's going to be true.

However, one more negative point for Intel with the 10th gen CPUs is the lack of PCI Express 4.0, which the AMD 3000 processors/500 series chipsets do have

Cheers

[reignofchaos]

The 10th gen parts are extremely poor vfm and should be called comedy lake rather than comet lake. At less than the cost of a 10600k + motherboard, you can snag a 3800x. Put a few rupees more and you will get 3900x which will destroy the 10600k in everything other than games. Even in games the ryzens are not far behind other than in really old or badly optimised games. Z490 motherboard prices are really atrocious.

Come to think of it, the 10600k is nothing other than the 8700k with better optimised thermals for around 80$ less price. After so many years, that is all that intel could manage!

I personally have 4 machines other than my file server in my home network. Two of them are Ryzen 3000 based - 3950x and 3600x. My HTPC is using my 1st gen hand me down 1700 with a new itx board. I also have an intel pc with an 8400 and a z370 board. I am planning to replace the 8400 with a second hand 8700k/9900k bought from people who decide to upgrade to 10th gen.

[Rehaan]

Need help guys...

I have an old desktop:

• ASUS P8Z68-V
• i7 2600K
• 16 GB DDR3
• GTX 570
• 840 PRO 128 GB x 2

I want to add a new graphics card : 2070 Super


Questions:

• Will it work??
• Other than the PCIe 2 (my motherboard) vs PCIe 3 (on the card?) limitation, is there anything else i need to watch out for?
• I understand the CPU might be the bottleneck - but how much would it actually affect things?

Answer (to your question)

• Why on earth are you doing this? Well, it's kind of a long story. My old desktop is with a friend who does a lot of Maya & After Effects work. Right now he just has ~60k to spend on upgrading things (eventually will upgrade the CPU as well), so putting that money towards a GFX card (and maybe some more RAM & another SSD as a cache disk). Eventually he'll carry the card forward to his all-new build.

Thanks,
R

[Samfromindia]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

• Will it work??
• Other than the PCIe 2 (my motherboard) vs PCIe 3 (on the card?) limitation, is there anything else i need to watch out for?
• I understand the CPU might be the bottleneck - but how much would it actually affect things?

I am sure many seasoned desktop enthusiasts in this forum will be able to answer your query in a better way, but here are my 2 cents:

Of course it will work, but with some bottleneck. If you plan to buy the GPU now and upgrade the system in few months you can totally do it. However if you plan to use your 4 Core i7 for an extended period, you may not be utilizing the full potential of your card. The folks there in Gamer's Nexus made made a video exactly for your use case, do give it a watch:

https://youtu.be/KPWEdbfJ0oE

[Joxster]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

I have an old desktop. I want to add a new graphics card: 2070 Super

Originally Posted by Samfromindia

Of course it will work, but with some bottleneck. If you plan to buy the GPU now and upgrade the system in few months you can totally do it.

+1

There's no reason why it wouldn't work. NVIDIA 20-series cards are backwards compatible. Also, since the 2070 Super consumes less power than the 570, your PSU won't be a concern either.

It's not that the CPU 'might' be the bottleneck, or that you 'might' not get the full performance of the 2070 Super. The CPU will definitely be the bottleneck, and you will not get the full performance of the 2070 Super in this setup. Period.

Cheers

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by Samfromindia

Of course it will work, but with some bottleneck.

And yes the GFX card will be carried forward.

Originally Posted by Samfromindia

The folks there in Gamer's Nexus made made a video exactly for your use case, do give it a watch:

Attachment 2010118

Awesome, thanks!

Somehow your reply sent me Googling some more, and i found this!!!

Exactly my build (CPU + Mobo) and the guy dropped a 2080 into it

The Build:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvjGxCWtHY0

The Benchmarks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R01lYMuwi_g

While these are Stock vs OC benchmarks... I still need to find a way to compare the numbers against a newer CPU + 2080 combination. (Just for my own reference).

Originally Posted by Joxster

Also, since the 2070 Super consumes less power than the 570, your PSU won't be a concern either.

Brilliant point!

I totally overlooked that. Was actually a bit concerned when i saw the "175W TDP" of the 2070 Super. Hah!

Originally Posted by Joxster

It's not that the CPU 'might' be the bottleneck, or that you 'might' not get the full performance of the 2070 Super.

Agreed. I guess my question was more about how much of a loss I'd see on purely-GPU related tasks (eg. NVENC encoding a video).

Either way, I'm just glad the 2070S will work on this setup. Makes this staggered upgrade a lot easier.

Thanks for you help guys!

[Joxster]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

While these are Stock vs OC benchmarks... I still need to find a way to compare the numbers against a newer CPU + 2080 combination. (Just for my own reference).

Maybe this video will give you a better idea. They're comparing the performance of the 2600K vs the 9700K, with both CPUs at stock settings, paired with a 2070 Super (2070 Super = 2080). Obviously overclocking both of these chips will yield better results, with the 9700K coming out even higher on top, but hopefully this will give you a better reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJu98D7ykeU

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Agreed. I guess my question was more about how much of a loss I'd see on purely-GPU related tasks (eg. NVENC encoding a video).

Purely-GPU tasks should not be bottlenecked too much by the CPU (unless you have other devices using up the PCIe lanes), but more by the chipset, which is where the PCIe 2 vs PCIe 3 comes in.

Cheers

[Rohit_Quad]

Guys, i am building a PC for my friend for video editing/ rendering purposes and came up with the following list. I have added the capability to run another RTX 2080 ti in the future - let me know your thoughts.

[Joxster]

Originally Posted by Rohit_Quad

Guys, i am building a PC for my friend for video editing/ rendering purposes and came up with the following list. I have added the capability to run another RTX 2080 ti in the future - let me know your thoughts.

I would change some of those components, namely the RAM, GPU, HDD & PSU. When going for such a high-end system, you want all of the components to be of good quality.

Here is the build that I came up with, trying to keep most things the same.

Better RAM - Because timings do matter for Ryzen processors.
Better GPU - Because he's going to be running heavy loads on that GPU, and you want the best thermals and air-cooling available.
Better HDD - Because 256MB of cache will mean that this HDD runs a bit more snappy than the one you selected with 64MB of cache.
Better PSU - Because you want the maximum throughput of power, and the most efficiency with delivering that power to different components.

Also, does he already have a suitable monitor, or is that something he will choose?

Edit: If there are plans to add another 2080 Ti into the build later, then a bigger PSU may be needed. I would recommend a 1000w PSU. You don't want to starve the cards of power when you expect maximum performance from them.

By the way, the Ryzen 3700X is expected to be refreshed in July as per a lot of rumors. Also, Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs are almost here, and should be released by the end of this year. NVIDIA 3000 series cards are expected in September or October this year, so if it is possible for him to wait, I would definitely recommend waiting for these releases before spending that kind of money!

Cheers

[blackwasp]

Hello guys, a query from a Mac user.

Over time, I have been using my iMac (mid 2011, 21.5 inch) and retina MacBook Pro 2015 quite happily. However, have recently re-started playing games like Age of Empires 2 DE, Euro Truck Simulator 2 and Cities Skyline. Now, even though I play AOE 2 off Windows in my MacBook, it’s still a little slow at times - especially when playing multiplayer online.

I was contemplating getting a 5K iMac, but times are not right. Then thought about an eGPU, but even that is a pricey option (>50k Rs.) in India. So, I have decided that why not build a small form factor Windows machine instead?

The purpose of this new device is 2 fold -
Initially, it will be used as a storage and print server, and when I can add more powerful hardware, will use it as a gaming rig (but only for the games mentioned above). I'm not a fan of 1st person shooter games except CS, which practically can run off any machine.

Here are some of my requirements:
1. Case ventilation should be from front, rear and top only. The place where it will sit will have things close to it on the sides.
2. A minimum of 2 3.5 inch drives and 2 2.5 inch drives (SSDs)
3. Bluetooth for keyboard and mouse - could be a USB dongle for all I care
4. Atleast 1 USB type A port at the front / top

Other considerations
1. I have the Windows license, couple of SSDs and 1 3.5 inch drive.
2. LAN port is available near the CPU location
3. I already have a 1080p monitor with VGA and Hdmi inputs
4. I use steam for my games

Here is a setup that I have so far come up with:
Start with the following:
AMD Ryzen 5 3500X 11k
Asus PRIME B450M-K 6.8k
Ram 8Gb 1 stick 3.6k
Corsair CX 500 4.5k
Antec VSK10 Window (Black) 3k
Basic graphics card 1.5k
Bluetooth dongle 0.8k
1 Tb SSD (already have)

Total = 31.2k

Future upgrades (max after 6 months, could happen earlier):
AMD RX 580 4gb DDR5 13.5k
8gb ram 3.6k
2X 4tb HDD - 15k

Total = 32.1k

Now, my question to all of you is the following - Is it possible to fit in the initial cost at ~25k range? While I can stretch to 30k, the lesser the better. I am open to different cases (but prefer small form factor than towers), or any different components that you can suggest better than my list. Do note that I've not read up much on AMD apart from searching the web for the basics.

Also, can someone comment on the overall gaming capability of the system post all upgrades? I checked on https://www.game-debate.com/, and except for the graphics card, all is shown very good (graphics card is given a 6.8 / 10).

[Rohit_Quad]

Originally Posted by Joxster

...
Better HDD - Because 256MB of cache will mean that this HDD runs a bit more snappy than the one you selected with 64MB of cache...

Thanks for the recommendation. My friend needs the PC very urgently, hence can't wait. I have changed the HDD to your suggestion, for now, as it is a no brainier (the cache didn't cross my mind when selecting the components ). Will discuss and update here after finalizing the other components.