Team-BHP > Shifting gears > Gadgets, Computers & Software


Reply
  Search this Thread
883,982 views
Old 17th August 2020, 19:55   #3466
BHPian
 
Joxster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mechelen
Posts: 619
Thanked: 2,218 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
While, I keep hearing the FX isn't a good enough processor, the geekbench website shows hardly any difference between FX-8350 and 3200G in multicore performance (single core is a weakness for FX, I know :()
Don't even consider the 3200G unless you're getting an amazing deal on it. The Zen 2 based APUs are going to be released very soon, and will be a huge step up from these Zen+ based APUs.
Besides the 12nm node to 7nm node change, they're also on a monolithic die, so latency is reduced. You will really repent if you buy the 3200G now

Cheers

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 18th August 2020 at 17:45. Reason: Typo corrected as requested.
Joxster is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 17th August 2020, 23:45   #3467
BHPian
 
Guite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Noida, NCR
Posts: 732
Thanked: 625 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

I can't seem to be able to find an answer to a question I have been struggling with. What's the difference between a CPU which have 4 cores and 4 threads versus one having 4 cores and 8 threads? How many concurrent threads can the former handle? Similarly, how many by the later.

Another way of looking at the question is: if the number of threads is not mentioned, does number of threads equal number of cores?
Guite is offline  
Old 18th August 2020, 05:12   #3468
Senior - BHPian
 
sandeepmohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wellington
Posts: 3,129
Thanked: 5,426 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
Another way of looking at the question is: if the number of threads is not mentioned, does number of threads equal number of cores?
They usually do. Logical or physical cores * 2 = Threads, provided the cpu supports multi threading. Most current day cpu's do. If you have doubts, always refer manufacturer documentation.

That said, the ability to effectively use those threads will be decided by the software you use.
sandeepmohan is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 18th August 2020, 07:27   #3469
BHPian
 
Guite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Noida, NCR
Posts: 732
Thanked: 625 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
They usually do. Logical or physical cores * 2 = Threads, provided the cpu supports multi threading. Most current day cpu's do.
I had started with the assumption that all modern CPUs support multi threading. Just now I looked at a list of CPUs and some are not multi threaded. So what I have now realised is a 4 cores 4 threads or a 6 cores 6 threads CPU is not multi threaded. No more confusion.

Last edited by Guite : 18th August 2020 at 07:53.
Guite is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 18th August 2020, 18:53   #3470
BHPian
 
Amien's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 253
Thanked: 322 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxster View Post
Don't even consider the 3200G unless you're getting an amazing deal on it. The Zen 2 based APUs are going to be released very soon, and will be a huge step up from these Zen+ based APUs.
Besides the 12nm node to 7nm node change, they're also on a monolithic die, so latency is reduced. You will really repent if you buy the 3200G now

Cheers
On that note, this is probably the last update for AM4 before the switch to a DDR5 platform, so maybe OP would like to wait for that as well considering he dropped the plan to upgrade for now.

The waiting game never ends
Amien is offline  
Old 18th August 2020, 19:08   #3471
BHPian
 
Joxster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mechelen
Posts: 619
Thanked: 2,218 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amien View Post
On that note, this is probably the last update for AM4 before the switch to a DDR5 platform, so maybe OP would like to wait for that as well considering he dropped the plan to upgrade for now.
I wouldn't advise waiting for DDR5. In fact, I would stay far away from the first iteration, and wait for the platform to mature before moving to it.

I will be upgrading to a Zen 3 CPU either by the end of this year or early next year. Eagerly following the rumors and leaks coming out

Cheers
Joxster is offline  
Old 18th August 2020, 23:57   #3472
BHPian
 
Amien's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 253
Thanked: 322 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxster View Post
I wouldn't advise waiting for DDR5. In fact, I would stay far away from the first iteration, and wait for the platform to mature before moving to it.

I will be upgrading to a Zen 3 CPU either by the end of this year or early next year. Eagerly following the rumors and leaks coming out

Cheers
I wouldn't advise waiting for low-end parts in general.

I see your point though, mine was that recommendations are only valid in a snapshot of time. If waiting is an option, then another reason to is the a520 boards that should be released with the new APUs. Zen 3 is exciting, but a lot more so for people already on AM4. Should be a good upgrade from 1000/2000 series stuff

Cheers
Amien is offline  
Old 19th August 2020, 03:45   #3473
Senior - BHPian
 
sandeepmohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wellington
Posts: 3,129
Thanked: 5,426 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
The total cost of all this just for the M.2 SSD speed and some gains
I would not bother with an M.2 for your work load. A quality 2.5" SSD based hard drive will give you all the performance you need and you'll save some money on the build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxster View Post
Don't even consider the 3200G unless you're getting an amazing deal on it.
I think the 3200G is still quite relevant, especially when it comes to budget builds. It has plenty of horse power for the kind of work SLK wants to throw at it. Once the Ryzen 4000G series APU's hits the market, the price for the 3200G will drop even further, making the deal sweeter.
sandeepmohan is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 19th August 2020, 12:55   #3474
BHPian
 
Joxster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mechelen
Posts: 619
Thanked: 2,218 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I think the 3200G is still quite relevant, especially when it comes to budget builds. It has plenty of horse power for the kind of work SLK wants to throw at it. Once the Ryzen 4000G series APU's hits the market, the price for the 3200G will drop even further, making the deal sweeter.
Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you here. SLK's conclusion about the move from the FX-8350 to a 3200G not really being an upgrade is absolutely correct. He's not interested in single-core performance, which is the main reason the 3200G scores higher in a benchmark. He's interested in multi-core performance which is better on a CPU with more threads. The comparison below summarizes that.

Just take a look at the difference in performance between his current CPU, the 3200G & the 4300G (yet to be released):

The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread-cpu-comparison.jpg

Source

To be honest, 4 core 4 thread CPUs shouldn't even exist in the Ryzen or Core series line-ups. 8 threads is the minimum any of these CPUs should have, and that's exactly what both AMD and Intel have now implemented.

I stick with what I said earlier. The Zen+ APUs should be avoided if possible. The Zen 2 APUs are going to blow them out of the water

Cheers
Joxster is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 19th August 2020, 19:04   #3475
BHPian
 
indian21r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 963
Thanked: 807 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amien View Post
Anecdotes aside, I hope you find something that fits. I'm interested in picking up one of the ARM bases Macs next year if initial impressions are good.
Today I tried running the class session on the 21" monitor I currently have. Everything was set but we felt that the monitor maybe too big for the Kids to focus on. So 27" will be worse off. My wife felt Ipad more handy and preferred to use that. I used my iphone as webcam (iVCam app) and the clarity was excellent. For the next session I will try to move the kids away from the PC and I will test it again. That will decide whether I will buy the Mac now or wait for the ARM based ones (with thinner bezels hopefully).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
For the first-time builder, or the enthusiast, sure it can be made into a tinkering job, and it is never going to beat having the finished machine arrive at the doorstep in one ready-to-go piece.
I guess I have entered the phase where I prefer my machines to run like clockwork. Getting old
indian21r is offline  
Old 19th August 2020, 21:44   #3476
BHPian
 
Guite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Noida, NCR
Posts: 732
Thanked: 625 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by indian21r View Post
I guess I have entered the phase where I prefer my machines to run like clockwork. Getting old
Does this mean assembled PCs don't run like clockwork?

Getting old and itching to build my own. I seem to be going in the opposite direction. I have been reading up a lot lately and beginning to realise it's a complicated marriage of parts from various vendors. I never knew the role of the chipset is so important. Whether I ultimately build or not, I have and will learn a great deal just from the reading alone.
Guite is offline  
Old 19th August 2020, 22:05   #3477
BHPian
 
indian21r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 963
Thanked: 807 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
Does this mean assembled PCs don't run like clockwork?
No they do run well if you take care in the initial stages. But it needs time which I was lazy to give and I was leaning towards a Mac.
indian21r is offline  
Old 20th August 2020, 04:21   #3478
Senior - BHPian
 
sandeepmohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wellington
Posts: 3,129
Thanked: 5,426 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxster View Post
Just take a look at the difference in performance between his current CPU, the 3200G & the 4300G
I won't deny what you're saying on the 4300G. Yes; it is worth the wait.

The FX series from AMD were not good cpu's to start with. They ran really hot and were not that great based on all the hype from AMD. If you look at the price of the old FX and the TDP, you're getting marginally improved performance with the 3200G. What is most impressive about the 3200G is the cost to run one, which is 50% cheaper and almost 65% cheaper on cost compared to the old FX. Also; I don't fully understand how much threading SLK's application can tap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
Does this mean assembled PCs don't run like clockwork?
I have used only assembled PC's, having built my first one way back in 1997-1998. I can say with confidence that they are just as reliable as a branded one. If you pay attention to the components, build and install a legit copy of the operating system, they can last a long time. The one my father uses is almost a decade old and still going strong.
sandeepmohan is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 20th August 2020, 05:29   #3479
BHPian
 
Amien's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 253
Thanked: 322 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by indian21r View Post

I guess I have entered the phase where I prefer my machines to run like clockwork. Getting old
Probably for the best. While iPads and macbooks are still relevant, I can't really recommend regular macs even for niche use-cases. The hardware is too underwhelming/thermally constrained, design too dated and the value is non-existent. Projected switch to ARM just puts the nail in the coffin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
Does this mean assembled PCs don't run like clockwork?

Getting old and itching to build my own.
Few things you can buy give you as much ROI as a DIY PC, Performance/value, individual component warranty and the gratification of having put together something that caters to your exact needs. It doesn't hurt that this is probably the best time in the last decade to build a PC (pandemic notwithstanding) and only slated to get better in the coming years.

Do share your plans/component selection if you do
Amien is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 20th August 2020, 14:59   #3480
BHPian
 
Joxster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mechelen
Posts: 619
Thanked: 2,218 Times
Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
The FX series from AMD were not good cpu's to start with. They ran really hot and were not that great based on all the hype from AMD. If you look at the price of the old FX and the TDP, you're getting marginally improved performance with the 3200G. What is most impressive about the 3200G is the cost to run one, which is 50% cheaper and almost 65% cheaper on cost compared to the old FX.
Absolutely agree about the FX processors. They were no match for their Intel Core rivals at the time, and are not competitive CPUs today either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I have used only assembled PC's, having built my first one way back in 1997-1998. I can say with confidence that they are just as reliable as a branded one. If you pay attention to the components, build and install a legit copy of the operating system, they can last a long time. The one my father uses is almost a decade old and still going strong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amien View Post
Few things you can buy give you as much ROI as a DIY PC, Performance/value, individual component warranty and the gratification of having put together something that caters to your exact needs. It doesn't hurt that this is probably the best time in the last decade to build a PC (pandemic notwithstanding) and only slated to get better in the coming years.
+1

An assembled PC with good parts is no less reliable than a pre-built. The main difference usually being that you need to go back to the place that sold you the parts if something goes wrong versus having a company technician visit your house for the repair. For the customized specifications and flexibility of putting whatever you want in the build, there is just no replacement.

Cheers
Joxster is offline  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks