[SLK]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

What is most impressive about the 3200G is the cost to run one, which is 50% cheaper and almost 65% cheaper on cost compared to the old FX. Also; I don't fully understand how much threading SLK's application can tap.

The routinely demanding thing I do is make and run Excel VBA applications, which by design can only run as a single thread and FX is very bad there.

Anyways, my plan to upgrade is off for now, the FX is doing just fine.

And I'm mad enough to get something equivalent to a Ryzen 7 3700X, when I eventually do. For now, I just plugged in 2x32 inch WQHD monitors to my FX and I'm just super enjoying the 5 feet wide screen (and want the work from home to continue! in office I work out of a 13 inch laptop ).

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I have used only assembled PC's, having built my first one way back in 1997-1998. I can say with confidence that they are just as reliable as a branded one. If you pay attention to the components, build and install a legit copy of the operating system, they can last a long time.

Me too, since late 90s, only self assembled systems, they can last longer because its just easy to upgrade and swap out components. I have killed multiple hardrives and somehow SATA controllers too! Burnt multiple graphics cards and for some reason, two Sony Bravia TVs, which randomly fried along with the graphics cards, BUT every-time the system survived.

BTW, what's legit copy of operating system got to do with anything? (I'm running a legit copy!, but not for saving my hardware, think that's just propaganda).

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by SLK

The routinely demanding thing I do is make and run Excel VBA applications, which by design can only run as a single thread and FX is very bad there.

If that is the case, then what are you going to do with something like a 3700X? In fact; even a Ryzen 5 3600 will smash through whatever you throw at it, while being more efficient on power.

Anyway; the final choice of cpu is yours. Guidance is my only intention.

Originally Posted by SLK

BTW, what's legit copy of operating system got to do with anything? (I'm running a legit copy!, but not for saving my hardware, think that's just propaganda).

Has nothing to do with saving your hardware. I've been through the phase of installing a non legit copy, some random update comes along with way and locks me out of my computer, or, I simply have to turn off updates and live with it. It is frustrating when your OS locks you out. You loose time and it ain't worth it. Considering some of us hold onto our computers for a while, it makes sense to factor the cost of an operating system when you build your PC. Now that Microsoft lets you transfer you license on the fly, its easier.

On frying two TV's, sounds like you had a spike flow through your computer. Its a miracle that your PC did not blow or you had some luck. Your PC is usually safe as it is grounded but TV's are not.

[Guite]

If and when I do my PC build I plan to use my existing HP Pavilion micro ATX case. Money saved is not much but I have already built a computer table to its size. New cases are designed mostly for gamers: too long and too tall to fit in.

Btw I am not a gamer. Usage: home video editing, just few minutes long at a time, and some hobbyist 3D rendering.

I have few doubts.

1. It has just one case fan provision. Side panel is perforated but not the top. Will cooling sufficient for this generation of 4 - 6 cores CPUs running at 3.6 GHz or higher? No over clocking of CPU or RAM. RAM install initially at 8 GB, will probably max out at 32 GB few years down the line. No fancy GPU for now. Will start with a basic 2 GB graphics card just for display.

2. Power supply unit is at the top. Most new SMPS seem to have fan facing inside of case. Can I install new power unit in this old case? What does non modular power supply unit mean?

3. Connection for front power / audio / USB 2.0: has socket types changed in recent years? Can I still connect old ones to new motherboard?

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by Guite

If and when I do my PC build I plan to use my existing HP Pavilion micro ATX case. Money saved is not much but I have already built a computer table to its size. New cases are designed mostly for gamers: too long and too tall to fit in.

Btw I am not a gamer. Usage: home video editing, just few minutes long at a time, and some hobbyist 3D rendering.

I have few doubts.

1. It has just one case fan provision. Side panel is perforated but not the top. Will cooling sufficient for this generation of 4 - 6 cores CPUs running at 3.6 GHz or higher? No over clocking of CPU or RAM. RAM install initially at 8 GB, will probably max out at 32 GB few years down the line. No fancy GPU for now. Will start with a basic 2 GB graphics card just for display.

2. Power supply unit is at the top. Most new SMPS seem to have fan facing inside of case. Can I install new power unit in this old case? What does non modular power supply unit mean?

3. Connection for front power / audio / USB 2.0: has socket types changed in recent years? Can I still connect old ones to new motherboard?

1. Just check if the MB is compatible with the case. Many current MB need a different case and Power Supply.
2. I have fitted extra fans around the case. Many MB have fan outputs (a small two pin connector), which are controlled for speed by the MB.
3. Many graphics cards require additional power and the PS has to be able to supply it - both connectors and the power.
4. With modern software especially video editing the more RAM the better. Start with at least 16GB and provision for 64GB in future. Best performance of RAM is when two or more DIMMs are used, then the access is interleaved. That means that you should have at least 4 RAM slots, 8 is better. Servers have 16.

[Guite]

Originally Posted by Aroy

1. Just check if the MB is compatible with the case.
2. I have fitted extra fans around the case.
3. Many graphics cards require additional power and the PS has to be able to supply it - both connectors and the power.
4. With modern software especially video editing the more RAM the better. Start with at least 16GB and provision for 64GB in future.

1. Current MB is micro ATX. New micro ATX motherboards are also same size 24x24cm. I just did comparison of mounting holes location: no problem there either.
2. I am not sure I can do that because there is no other screw holes for mounting extra fan.
3. Right now I will be choosing graphic card with passive cooling but power supply unit selection will cater to possible future active cooled graphic card. My only concern is possibility of mounting new PSU on this old case.
4. I will be choosing CPU and MB with dual channel memory support.

[Amien]

Originally Posted by Guite

If and when I do my PC build I plan to use my existing HP Pavilion micro ATX case. Money saved is not much but I have already built a computer table to its size. New cases are designed mostly for gamers: too long and too tall to fit in.

Btw I am not a gamer. Usage: home video editing, just few minutes long at a time, and some hobbyist 3D rendering.

I have few doubts.

1. It has just one case fan provision. Side panel is perforated but not the top. Will cooling sufficient for this generation of 4 - 6 cores CPUs running at 3.6 GHz or higher? No over clocking of CPU or RAM. RAM install initially at 8 GB, will probably max out at 32 GB few years down the line. No fancy GPU for now. Will start with a basic 2 GB graphics card just for display.

2. Power supply unit is at the top. Most new SMPS seem to have fan facing inside of case. Can I install new power unit in this old case? What does non modular power supply unit mean?

3. Connection for front power / audio / USB 2.0: has socket types changed in recent years? Can I still connect old ones to new motherboard?

Re: building in old case, it can be done, but would be a sub-optimal solution. Modern CPUs boost based on available thermal headroom and that case seems to have limited airflow. It will work, but you will leave performance on the table. You do get smaller/non-gamery cases, here' s one for reference:- https://www.primeabgb.com/online-pri...def-mini-c-bk/
Do share more info. on your table/size/space constraints.

1) If you do decide to build in the existing case, a single fan should be set as intake rather than exhaust. You might be able to install a 2nd fan on the perforated side. RAM etc will depend on your total budget for the build. Same goes for whether a discrete GPU(Memory size doesn't mean much re: performance) is warranted or if you'd be better off with an APU.

2) A top mounted power supply acts as an exhaust for the entire system, whereas a bottom-mounted one only cools the PSU itself and isolates its heat from the rest of the computer. If the case uses a regular ATX PSU, you should be okay. A modular PSU is one that has detachable cables, i.e. you can remove the ones you don't need to reduce clutter.

3) Connections are pretty standard, you should be okay. If the board has a USB 2.0 header then front USB should work. Probably won't be able to use USB 3.0 front panel headers.

Hope that helps, do share your budget/size constraints.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Guite

If and when I do my PC build I plan to use my existing HP Pavilion micro ATX case.

If you are going to use Windows 10, then half that ram is going to be consumed by the operating system. Something to keep in mind.

Your existing cabinet cooling solution should be fine. If it runs hot, you'll know as the cpu, psu fan will make a racket, which is a good indicator that cooling is insufficient. You won't damage anything.

On installing a new psu in your old case, its hard to say. You will have to take measurements of the area where the current psu is mounted and compare to the new one. The fan being inside is no problem. They usually push air out and to the back of the psu.

Modular and non modular can be two things. One is they have a independent power rail for each of the power outputs provided. They usually split the high power draw line from the other ancillary stuff such as hard drive outputs, so you get a more steady supply of power. The other is that they have detachable cables at the psu unit end so you can remove what is excess, which you can't do for a non modular psu. I would not bother with a modular psu. Any quality non modular psu is fine.

Connectors for USB front panel connector should be the same.

[Guite]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

On installing a new psu in your old case, its hard to say. You will have to take measurements of the area where the current psu is mounted and compare to the new one. The fan being inside is no problem. They usually push air out and to the back of the psu.

What I have observed from the new range of bottom mount PSUs and new range of cases is that it seems the fan, which is mounted on the larger surface, which is at the bottom, sucks air out of the PSU and throws it out through grills at the bottom of the CPU case. To mount this on top in an old case would mean hot air of PSU thrown into the CPU / graphic card area. I would not like to do that.

Originally Posted by Amien

You do get smaller/non-gamery cases, here' s one for reference:- https://www.primeabgb.com/online-pri...def-mini-c-bk/
Do share more info. on your table/size/space constraints.

Hope that helps, do share your budget/size constraints.

The Fractal Design case you have linked is just the type I want: clean minimalist design, no frills. However I have only 44cm height available. This case is 41.5. So there is only 25mm (1") to access top USB / audio ports, and top ventilation.

I have found a slightly shorter Antec case, VSK10. This will give me 40mm top clearance.

Budget: I started with 30k budget but now just CPU and MB are coming to that much . It's an ongoing virtual build, not a definite project. I may or may not complete it. In the process I have learned a lot. So even if I eventually do not take it through, I would still have gained a lot of knowledge on personal computer components.

[Amien]

Originally Posted by Guite

What I have observed from the new range of bottom mount PSUs and new range of cases is that it seems the fan, which is mounted on the larger surface, which is at the bottom, sucks air out of the PSU and throws it out through grills at the bottom of the CPU case. To mount this on top in an old case would mean hot air of PSU thrown into the CPU / graphic card area. I would not like to do that.


The Fractal Design case you have linked is just the type I want: clean minimalist design, no frills. However I have only 44cm height available. This case is 41.5. So there is only 25mm (1") to access top USB / audio ports, and top ventilation.

Just a correction, PSU's with a bottom fan draw air up but exhaust it out the back the same way an old-style SMPS does. The fan is an intake so it won't dump heat into the case. I have outlined this in my previous post.

Originally Posted by Guite

I have found a slightly shorter Antec case, VSK10. This will give me 40mm top clearance.

Budget: I started with 30k budget but now just CPU and MB are coming to that much . It's an ongoing virtual build, not a definite project. I may or may not complete it. In the process I have learned a lot. So even if I eventually do not take it through, I would still have gained a lot of knowledge on personal computer components.

Can the cabinet be placed on the top of your table? Another option would be to place it on a roll-out tray of some sort. Question about the perforated side unanswered. If possible, it might actually be preferable to just use the existing case over the VSK.

You should specify a use-case for the PC before establishing a budget. 30k can get you something more than sufficient for general use (I'm talking about the entire build, not just the CPU/Motherboard).

[Guite]

Originally Posted by Amien

Just a correction, PSU's with a bottom fan draw air up but exhaust it out the back the same way an old-style SMPS does.

Ok. Good to know.

Can the cabinet be placed on the top of your table?

It's already too crowded with monitor and printer. So not an option. Moreover functionally there is no need for it to be on top of table.

Question about the perforated side unanswered.

The largest perforation area is 100x110mm. Even if the mounting holes line up I suppose the largest fan I can fit will only be 80mm fan. It seems reputed brands do not make less than 120mm dia. I am a sucker for brands.

You should specify a use-case for the PC before establishing a budget. 30k can get you something more than sufficient for general use (I'm talking about the entire build, not just the CPU/Motherboard).

As mentioned earlier usage is short home video editing and encoding, and casual (casual as in not professional) 3D modeling and rendering. So I have prioritised for CPU clock speed, and then number of cores - threads. While encoding / rendering takes place I just let the PC do it's stuff and I do other things.

At this point of time I am looking at CPU having >3.6ghz clock speed, 4 cores 8 threads or 6 cores 12 threads. For 3D rendering I might consider GPU rendering in future with a graphic card upgrade, but for now will do CPU rendering.

[Amien]

Deepcool has some decent 80mm fans. Even a generic 80mm fan is better than not having it though.

Modern 4 core/8 threads are more than enough for home video editing/encoding and can be done with a 30k build budget. Clockspeeds are pointless as IPC does not scale the same way across architectures (I think you meant single thread performance).

A good build is balanced based on the total available budget, so you'd want to decide on that before narrowing individual component choice.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Guite

What I have observed from the new range of bottom mount PSUs

You need to confirm that the psu actually does what you describe, that is blow air over the cpu, gpu. The Cooler Master, Corsair and some older Seasonic one's I have used blow the other way. These are all with bottom mount fan. That is, they draw air out from the case and exit behind the psu itself, not the case bottom or top. They basically act as an exhaust unit for the case itself.

That said, there are several hundred psu manufacturers out there. I am sure you can find one suitable for your cabinet or if you just can't find one, I am sure you can find a suitable PC case that will fit in the area of your existing one.

[Guite]

Case: I will in all likelihood go for new case, but still stick to micro ATX, to fit into existing table with some compromise. The computer will probably outlast the table. I want this computer build (if it happens) to last the next ten years or so. My existing one is in its 10th year. Other than obsolete technology, no major problem. I have changed HDDs and RAM. But still booting (when required) from a temperamental DVD drive is a bit old tech.
The table itself I want to palm off cheap and build a new one. Maybe soon, maybe eventually. Poor choice of carpenter resulted in poor workmanship; the finish is an eyesore.

CPU: I have already decided on AMD over Intel, because for same price AMD either offers higher clock speed, or more threads. Moreover it seems their supplied cooler is better. I do not want to be doing my own thermal paste application.

In AMD, its Ryzen 5. Within this series, I am not yet decided. Maybe 3400G or 3600.

My biggest dilemma is wrt motherboards. Ruled out MSI (never heard of it before, does not like the aesthetics) and Asrock (used it before, not a fan). I first started with Asus but now I am leaning more towards Gigabyte. I find that expandability provided by PCI slots and M.2 socket is more in Gigabyte boards, compared to Asus. Gigabyte typical has two x16 PCI slot, although the second one is actually only x4. This can be used to mount another M.2 drive through an adapter at a later date. Actual M.2 sockets are two numbers on some of their models.

In terms of chipset, B450 or B550? I am not likely to upgrade CPU later. Do I really need to go for B550 to get PCIe 4? I doubt, but opinions welcome. I have not looked at other chipset options. Too much choice is also a problem.

In Asus I have been looking at their Prime range. Not TUF Gaming range or any other. Should I for my limited use?

In Gigabyte I have been looking at their Ultra Durable and Aorus range. Which one is better for me?

For me durability (last long, really long, ding dong kind of durability) is first priority, then performance and expandability.

[Amien]

Originally Posted by Guite

Case: I will in all likelihood go for new case, but still stick to micro ATX, to fit into existing table with some compromise. The computer will probably outlast the table. I want this computer build (if it happens) to last the next ten years or so. My existing one is in its 10th year. Other than obsolete technology, no major problem. I have changed HDDs and RAM. But still booting (when required) from a temperamental DVD drive is a bit old tech.
The table itself I want to palm off cheap and build a new one. Maybe soon, maybe eventually. Poor choice of carpenter resulted in poor workmanship; the finish is an eyesore.

CPU: I have already decided on AMD over Intel, because for same price AMD either offers higher clock speed, or more threads. Moreover it seems their supplied cooler is better. I do not want to be doing my own thermal paste application.

In AMD, its Ryzen 5. Within this series, I am not yet decided. Maybe 3400G or 3600.

My biggest dilemma is wrt motherboards. Ruled out MSI (never heard of it before, does not like the aesthetics) and Asrock (used it before, not a fan). I first started with Asus but now I am leaning more towards Gigabyte. I find that expandability provided by PCI slots and M.2 socket is more in Gigabyte boards, compared to Asus. Gigabyte typical has two x16 PCI slot, although the second one is actually only x4. This can be used to mount another M.2 drive through an adapter at a later date. Actual M.2 sockets are two numbers on some of their models.

In terms of chipset, B450 or B550? I am not likely to upgrade CPU later. Do I really need to go for B550 to get PCIe 4? I doubt, but opinions welcome. I have not looked at other chipset options. Too much choice is also a problem.

In Asus I have been looking at their Prime range. Not TUF Gaming range or any other. Should I for my limited use?

In Gigabyte I have been looking at their Ultra Durable and Aorus range. Which one is better for me?

For me durability (last long, really long, ding dong kind of durability) is first priority, then performance and expandability.

Lots of questions but I still see no sign of a total build budget.

Some expectations need to be set straight re:longevity. While a computer built today can last 10 years, it is not wise to assume so. As fabrication gets finer and more power efficient, things become more susceptible to environmental/heat degradation. This is the primary reason for electronics not lasting as long, more so than build quality etc.

Gigabyte, ASUS and MSI are all tier 1 brands and you likely won't go wrong with any of them. Each slightly outdoes the other every board generation. Range/Series are marketing categories that don't mean much.

You don't need PCI-E 4.0 and will likely not use more than 2 M.2/4 SATA drives over the lifetime of the PC. Chipset choice is dependent on the parts its being paired with, which is again dependent on the total build budget.

[govigov]

After a long time, (about 15 years), I want to get a VFM gaming pc, that can run most sim racing games, any recommendations on what to get and where to get started is appreciated.