[govigov]

Originally Posted by Fillmore

At the end of the day a regular joe would

• Check mail
• Browse some sites / social media
• Transact on some e-commerce / banking sites / pay bills

My friend and I were having this conversation. We were drawing from experience, on how almost all of these things can be done on an iPad. All you need is a regular tablet for your portability, this can be complemented with a desktop at home for all other tasks.

I am now looking at desktops, as my current laptop cannot be upgraded to a better graphics card, this is a 8th gen core i7 with 16GB mem we are talking about, sadly no USB 3.2/thunderbolt for external graphics card as well. Almost all of my social media / streaming media is on the iPad for the convenience it offers.

[Amien]

Originally Posted by Fillmore

I still say the desktop era is gone

I've been hearing this for the past 10 years and will no doubt keep hearing it for the next 10. Meanwhile, anyone who needs to do real work on a computer will continue to be best served by a desktop. Having one also makes your mobile device choices a lot less consequential.

[Aroy]

I have a dual XEON desktop with 3 HD monitors. The system has been working for the last 10 years. The only thing that I upgrade is the hard disks. Started with 300GB, the 750 then 1TB and now 2TB. By the way I have 6 HDD and there is space for 6 more.

This is something that is difficult to implement with a laptop. My sons have Apple Laptops the latest with 32GB RAM and the works and cost him nearly 3L. But their use does not require upgrades so they change the laptops every 3-4 years.

Coming to the debate.

1. If you are satisfied with a laptop and you are going to change it every 3-5 years, then a laptop is in my opinion the best solution - very little desk real estate, no power related problems and it is portable.

2. If your use requires fairly long ownership and regular upgrading then a desktop is the way to go. You can build a mini supercomputer with high power CPU( two or more if using XEONs) lots and lots or RAM and lots of hard disks.

There is a class of laptops - Mobile workstations that can be configured to beat average desktops - 2 XEON Processors, 128GB RAM extremely fast Graphics card, 4K display etc. But that comes at a steep price - 2.5L to 4L. So unless you need portability (and a lot of users do) a desktop of similar configuration will always be less expensive.

Ultimately it is what you are comfortable with.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by Fillmore

Unless you are a gaming freak needing a special config. Laptops are the only way to go ahead. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.

False on all counts. Please allow me to tear your argument apart and hand it back to you on a platter .

- You can place it literally anywhere in the house and work, with a desktop one entire table and real estate is blocked for the pc.

Yes please go ahead and ruin your spine by working with a bad posture. The laptop won't pay for medical bills.

- Desktops are dust magnets and it really takes an effort to clean them especially the cable clutter behind it.

Have you ever heard your laptop whine away to glory? You know what that is? It is dust accumulation in the tiny fans. If enough accumulates over time, I'm sorry but your laptop will first throttle and then die.

- For speed typing a laptop keypad is best suited.

It is quite obvious you've never used a mechanical keyboard in your entire life. Please try one - it might be life changing.

- You don't need a UPS with a laptop

Depending on where you stay, you don't need it for a desktop either.

- A monitor gives you the ability of an Extended dual desktop screen which you will not get with a traditional desktop

Au contraire, You can connect upto 6 displays to a modern GPU and depending upon the motherboard, you can have upto 4 GPUs that gives you a grand total of 24 displays that can be driven by a single desktop vs 3 at best on a laptop.

- Repair and upgrade features of the desktop are just a hogwash. Once every 4 yrs your entire generation of devices progress and they will not be compatible. The other peripherals like ram, SSD etc you can upgrade in laptops as well.

Who says so? I bought my first gen ryzen 1700 with 8 cores in 2016. Last year I upgraded it to a 3950x with 16 cores and 2.5x the performance. A desktop can have upto 16 dimm slots which means 1TB or more memory. Try fitting that into a laptop. GPUs can be upgraded every generation if you have an adequate power supply. Laptop CPUs end at 45w due to TDP limitations in a small chassis. Desktop CPUs go upto 250-280W in a single socket. Try running Davinci Resolve with 8k footage on your laptop and see it cry.

How many SSDs can a laptop hold? A max of two. How many SSDs can a desktop hold? 2 or 3 NVME drives + 6 SATA drives + any further pci express expansion cards that can hold even more. I use an IBM 105s SAS card in my storage server that can control 8 enterprise hard drives from one socket at full bandwidth. Try doing that in a laptop .

Dissing desktops due to ignorance is simply not okay. Nor is preaching without doing your research.

[d3mon]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

False on all counts. Please allow me to tear your argument apart and hand it back to you on a platter .
...
Dissing desktops due to ignorance is simply not okay. Nor is preaching without doing your research.

I think you are taking an extreme example of content creation in 8K as being untenable on a laptop to make the case that Desktops are always better than laptops? Sure, for the 0.01% of PC users in this world who render in 8K, a desktop makes more sense. But for someone who just needs to do mundane tasks (including gaming), laptops are just fine with advantages of their own.

Fact is - Gaming laptops are exploding (CAGR > 20% YoY) in sales, while desktops are stagnant as best. This is because Laptops can finally deliver "good enough" (1080p60 or above) gaming performance for a very reasonable price (<70k). This is in stark contrast to the times of yore, when you'd need to spend tons of money and still get a very compromised gaming experience. With Thunderbolt connectivity, you can add whatever peripherals that you want, including 4 - 6 monitors (using an external dock, or an eGPU).

For even more extreme use cases, you can get DTRs (Desktop replacements) with up to Threadripper CPUs / Xeons - you name it, some with socketed CPUs that you can replace yourself! I'm sure you know about this yourself but somehow this didn't feature in your comment.

Desktops will always have their place - it's just that laptops no longer have a 2-4x delta as they used to before. It's more like 10-20% for mainstream use cases (including gaming) and probably 30-40% for extreme use cases. And that's a trade off that more and more users are willing to make in favor of portability and other benefits that a laptop brings to the table.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by d3mon

... portability and other benefits that a laptop brings to the table.

"Other benefits." There aren't any, except aesthetics according to some people's taste, to which they are absolutely entitled.

Twenty years ago, when I was still working, there were two reasons why certain staff had laptops...

1. They were head-office staff, and they used laptops that came from Japan. At least at that time, there was no way we could provide anything comparable of any kind from our local market.

2. They were senior staff who saw some sort of snob value in having a laptop. That I never could understand. Similarly, for desktop machines, they had to have the highest spec, despite doing the least work. We unplugged one guy's keyboard once: it was nearly two weeks before he asked us why his PC wasn't working .

In the end, it's a free world and each to their own choice. I cannot justify owning a diesel car for a tiny annual, urban mileage, except I like it.

But markets are not sensible. Replacing a computer every two or three years seems absurd to me (mine's ten). A tiny proportion of computer users do stuff that is perpetually up against the cutting edge of computing and graphic power and can afford to move with that edge.

So let's round up the PC/Laptop echo chamber with that famous saying from Bart Simpson: Whatever.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by d3mon

I think you are taking an extreme example of content creation in 8K as being untenable on a laptop to make the case that Desktops are always better than laptops? Sure, for the 0.01% of PC users in this world who render in 8K, a desktop makes more sense. But for someone who just needs to do mundane tasks (including gaming), laptops are just fine with advantages of their own.

Any sort of content creation with render times causes laptops be it gaming or productivity to throttle bigtime. It is inherent in their design. If you check a cpu frequency plot, the clocks will drop near base clocks in less than five minutes. I have an Asus G14 with an octacore 4800HS and it throttles hard when you throw any major workload - say a video export or photo processing in Lightroom or even a build for a medium sized project on it. Once that happens, performance tanks hard compared to a desktop. It is not just limited to video encoding.

Fact is - Gaming laptops are exploding (CAGR > 20% YoY) in sales, while desktops are stagnant as best. This is because Laptops can finally deliver "good enough" (1080p60 or above) gaming performance for a very reasonable price (<70k). This is in stark contrast to the times of yore, when you'd need to spend tons of money and still get a very compromised gaming experience. With Thunderbolt connectivity, you can add whatever peripherals that you want, including 4 - 6 monitors (using an external dock, or an eGPU).

Agree partially. Gaming laptops have become far better than what they once were. They have decent battery life, decent screens, good enough performance for the money. Gaming is good too with the caveat that you have to be plugged in while gaming. Else performance tanks to unplayable levels. As for thunderbolt, performance of an e-gpu is extremely poor compared to native PCI-e x16 due to bus limitations. Again this might improve in the future but it isn't meant for gaming. Digital signage maybe but not for gaming or high end productivity either.

The other thing to note which is more of an issue with chip manufacturers rather than laptop builders is that the same named desktop and laptop chips are not identical in performance. So while you pay for say a 2060 in a laptop, you only get 1660 level performance which is around 25% less than a desktop with a 2060. The same holds true for CPUs too. As I mentioned earlier - they throttle really hard on multicore work loads.

For even more extreme use cases, you can get DTRs (Desktop replacements) with up to Threadripper CPUs / Xeons - you name it, some with socketed CPUs that you can replace yourself! I'm sure you know about this yourself but somehow this didn't feature in your comment.

I don't consider DTRs as laptops. They bring in all the disadvantages of a laptop with none of the benefits of desktops. Portability goes for a toss, power consumption goes for a toss, thermals and acoustics go for a toss, battery life goes for a toss, expandability goes for a toss. What's left is a hot, noisy, horrible device for lots of money that is better spent on a desktop. The only place where I see a use for DTRs is in consumer expos where carrying a lot of desktops is a problem. We do the same and have an MSI GT80 titan sli for this exact purpose. No one uses it otherwise.

Desktops will always have their place - it's just that laptops no longer have a 2-4x delta as they used to before. It's more like 10-20% for mainstream use cases (including gaming) and probably 30-40% for extreme use cases. And that's a trade off that more and more users are willing to make in favor of portability and other benefits that a laptop brings to the table.

More like 50%-100% for extreme use cases and 20-30% for mainstream applications. But yes the difference has reduced.

[Aroy]

As I said a few posts back - You do get Laptops (Mobile Workstations) which will meet or exceed the specifications on most desktops; except servers; but at a much enhanced price. Here is what I got after customising:

https://www.lenovo.com/in/en/laptops...IN0/customize?

THINKPAD P17 GEN 1

Intel Xeon W-10885M vPro Processor (2.40GHz, up to 5.30GHz with Turbo Boost, 8 Cores, 16MB Cache)

Windows 10 Pro for Workstations 64

64GB(16x4) DDR4 2933MHz ECC SoDIMM

1TB Solid State Drive, M.2 2280, PCIe-NVMe, OPAL2.0, TLC

43.94cms UHD (3840x2160) IPS Anti Glare 500nits Non-Touch

Smart Card Reader

Summary
Base Price ₹179,900
As Configured ₹360,300
Use Coupon BUILDNSAVE* -₹10,809
Your Price ₹349,491
Delivers within 6 weeks

Now at much lower price I could get a dual XEON with 128GB ECC RAM and two graphics cards that would drive at least 4 UHD Monitors, as well as a few UHD Monitors.

So, you can get laptops that match the power user's specifications, but at a much higher price. Oh nowadays you do not get HDD but Solid State drives only. For my work I need Magnetic Media for archiving and redundancy.

[Guite]

It's been two weeks since my PC build. It's running smooth so far.

I had been making my shortlist and saving on my wishlist in Amazon India app. It's slightly more expensive than Prime ABGB but I figured return will be more convenient if required. Moreover constant tracking of transit status in Amazon is very reassuring, with clear delivery dateline. It's another matter that I ordered one item on Prime Abgb, cancelled it within one day, followed up for five days, got refund reference number but can't confirm with HDFC Bank because they are incommunicado.

Earlier on I ordered Fractal Design Mini C from Prime ABGB. It arrived in four days Mumbai to Delhi, with excellent packaging. They put in additional cardboards to prevent any accidental dent to the case. All other components are ordered from Amazon. Purchase began on sale night on 16th October. It took about five days for all items to reach.

I went conservative on choosing RAM because I read multiple posts on internet fora about boot post failure due to incompatible RAM. So I choose exact match to motherboard QVL. Next time I will be more liberal about it.

Motherboard I had chosen was B550m Aorus Pro, but could not get it (long story in the online shopping thread). So I settled for B550m DS3H. Processor is Ryzen 3300X, price to performance is excellent. I also picked up an M.2 NVMe for OS drive. Storage is served by two not very old 1TB HDDs.

Assembly was fairly straightforward though I struggled a bit with screwing down the stock cooler. Some screws did not catch the thread easily, it had to be pressed down fairly hard.

After installing OS, initially I could not get into bios. After some reading up I upgraded the bios and could enter. I ran Cinebench test and found the CPU clocking 4.1 GHz instead of 3.8 base. CPU temperature went up to maximum 85 C. Thus began a confusing research into undervolting, voltage offset, changing power allocation, Ryzen master utility, etc. Ultimately I entered bios setup and explored there. I found core boost and turned it off. Now it is running at base clock speed and max temperature at 65 C under rendering test.

Overall a very rewarding experience. I love to tinker, so I am itching for more tinkering opportunity.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by Aroy

As I said a few posts back - You do get Laptops (Mobile Workstations) which will meet or exceed the specifications on most desktops; except servers; but at a much enhanced price. Here is what I got after customising:

https://www.lenovo.com/in/en/laptops...IN0/customize?

THINKPAD P17 GEN 1

Intel Xeon W-10885M vPro Processor (2.40GHz, up to 5.30GHz with Turbo Boost, 8 Cores, 16MB Cache)

Windows 10 Pro for Workstations 64

64GB(16x4) DDR4 2933MHz ECC SoDIMM

1TB Solid State Drive, M.2 2280, PCIe-NVMe, OPAL2.0, TLC

43.94cms UHD (3840x2160) IPS Anti Glare 500nits Non-Touch

Smart Card Reader

Summary
Base Price ₹179,900
As Configured ₹360,300
Use Coupon BUILDNSAVE* -₹10,809
Your Price ₹349,491
Delivers within 6 weeks

Now at much lower price I could get a dual XEON with 128GB ECC RAM and two graphics cards that would drive at least 4 UHD Monitors, as well as a few UHD Monitors.

The only benefit of a standard CPU with this Xeon is ECC. Absolutely nothing else. For all other purposes, its a standard 45W laptop CPU (i9-10980HK) that won't hold a candle to a 8 core 16 thread Ryzen 3700x or Intel 10700K desktop CPUs which cost below INR 30,000.

Also just FYI - this CPU will get murdered by a Ryzen 4800H CPU found in mid-high end notebooks that cost a third of that.

Intel has completely lost the laptop CPU war to AMD - be it performance, power efficiency or price .

[ani_meher]

I am using a Tenda 150mbps wifi USB module to enable wifi on my desktop. I noticed that the speeds on desktop are 1/4th or even lesser than what I get on mobile or ipad using the same wifi network. What could be wrong? Is there any problem in the wifi USB module or some setting?

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

I am using a Tenda 150mbps wifi USB module to enable wifi on my desktop. I noticed that the speeds on desktop are 1/4th or even lesser than what I get on mobile or ipad using the same wifi network. What could be wrong? Is there any problem in the wifi USB module or some setting?

That's a horrible usb dongle. Get something better which supports at least AC1200/AC1900.

[Samfromindia]

AMD officially kills Intel in both productivity + gaming with Ryzen 5000 Series Desktop processors !

https://youtu.be/iZBIeM2zE-I

https://youtu.be/gWJJekUVm8U

[AnandB]

Tbf the gaming is only applicable at 1080p where it is cpu bound. So all the benefits are only applicable to competitive gamers who play 1080p and 200+ fps for their 200+ hz monitors. I checked loads of reviews and there is negligible gain over 3xxx series or even 10900k at 1440p or 4k. Good for me as i don't have to upgrade from my 3900x.

Big improvements in productivity though.

[TRR]

Originally Posted by Amien

I would wait for the 5600 to be available before thinking about the upgrade. Waiting for AMD's big Navi launch next month is also a good idea. Availability for Nvidia's GPUs should also improve by then.

Originally Posted by Joxster

As Amien already said, I would wait for the equivalent Zen 3 CPU, as it's a big step ahead especially in gaming.

However, your GPU choice is not correct for a 1080p 144Hz build. The RTX 3070 is the right GPU for a 1440p 144Hz build. For a 1080p 144Hz, a 3060/3060 Ti or its RDNA 2 equivalent would be enough for a 1080p high refresh rate build.

Once the new parts are out, we can help you finalize a build within your budget, but you'll need to hold out for a little while until they're released.

I am now waiting for availability on the AMD Ryzen 5 5600X. Currently seems to be out of stock at every Indian retailer so will have to stake my chances in December for this. And thanks to both of you for suggesting to wait for the 5600X. Your advice stopped me from impulsively pulling the trigger on a 3600XT at that time. All the reviews seems to indicate excellent gaming performance and it has been launched at a price that I can stomach, with the savings on the GPU (detailed below) being sufficient to offset the price differential between the 3600XT and the 5600X.

@ Joxster, I know you suggested not to go for the RTX 3070 for my use case, but I got an opportunity to purchase the RTX 3070 Founder's Edition and couldn't stop myself from going for it. Figured the RTX 3060 would take some time to launch at which point, it would make just as much sense to wait for the AMD equivalent before taking a call and on and on would go the endless wait

The 3070 was available at a price that was well within the budget I had set aside for the GPU and considering the performance and the (current) scarcity of the 3070 FE, I went ahead and impulsively made the purchase. Either way, since I most likely will not be upgrading the GPU for the next 4-5 years, I thought that it wouldn't hurt to future proof the system, in case I shifted to a 1440p high refresh rate monitor.

Got this beauty on the 2nd of November:





Unfortunately though, it'll be sitting in its box till January when my brother will fly down from the Netherlands with the RAM and the SSD, which I got for a good price over there. That however gives me time to assemble the parts for the rest of the build.

Will update further as I collect more of the parts

Oh, and any suggestions on possible improvements to the build are most welcome!