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Old 10th January 2022, 20:00   #3781
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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Originally Posted by CzechItaliaMoto View Post
I honestly think this is not the time to be assembling a PC, due to the insane GPU prices and the chip shortage. A decent gaming laptop which costs 50-60k comes with a decent processor and a really good GPU compared to an integrated one.
Sony has stopped manfacture of some of it cameras because of chip shortage. Chip shortage is currently applying to all electronics. Surely laptops are also affected?
Quote:
Keeping the 60k budget for the tower alone, you might be spending around 10k for the monitor alone and add 2-3k for peripherals
Part of the appeal of the desktop (misleading name: it can be a desk-beside, desk-under, etc etc) is the freedom to buy all those peripherals as suits. My hobby is photography: my monitor is 24-inch and cost 25k, which is actually much lower than pro graphics monitors but much more than many would spend. My keyboard is currently an Amazon Basics and cost about 400Rs. Freedom! I have a modestly expensive monitor, a dirt-cheap keyboard. Oh, and an expensive arm assembly that puts my monitor where I want it, to match my awful, unhealthy, feet-up working posture!

Frankly, I could not even work happily with a laptop. We do have one in the house, so I do know. Yes, of course I could use it as a temporary or travel device, but for more, I could not. I don't know if I could even get a big enough monitor, and if I did, I'm sure the laptop would be top-whack price.
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If you look at it from this angle a laptop may be a very feasible choice, which will last for 2-3 years minimum.
I would not want to spend that much on anything with only a couple of years of life! And frankly, I would expect more. Our current laptop is more than five years ago, although it has had some service/repairs (a new keyboard for a laptop is a service-shop job, of course. The laptop we had before that was built like a tank, and lasted nearly a decade.

Unless one is in the video trade, or a gaming programmer, or some such thing that requires cutting-edge performance, computers are too expensive to be short-term buys. Costs more than a washing machine: should last at least as long, and all mine have.

It's odd, This laptop v desktop thing gets almost religious! I know someone who thinks I'm an outdated stick-in-the-mud. But my system is bang up to date (well, a few months ago). Technically, a laptop doesn't suit my needs; physically it doesn't suit my needs. I can't use my system on the sofa, on the floor... or on a train, but I don't want to. I absolutely intend that no major part of it will be replaced unless it fails, although extra storage and ram may well be added.

Each to their own, but let it be according to needs, not the current fads, which strongly favour laptops or even tablets! (Aside: I'd love to have a good tablet for previewing my photos away-from-home. I have an 8-inch Lenovo but would like bigger+better-display. Luxury wish only, I'll probably buy my next lens before that)

By the way, the life of many laptops is reduced by doing many of the things that can be done with a laptop. Like using it on one's lap, or a cushion, rug, etc, and blocking ventilation.
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Old 10th January 2022, 21:54   #3782
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

The main issues with laptops in my opinion are

1. working posture
2. thermals
3. battery backup

I solve the first one by using a desk/ chair setup, with secondary display and keyboard/ mouse, using the laptop as just the CPU box. Else if I use the laptop in its literal sense, I'll get back pain.

The second problem is not easy to solve, because of the small form factor design. There is no place for heat to dissipate with so many components cramped within a small area.

The third problem is that all components are designed so that the laptop does not shutdown when AC power is off, which is why all laptop components are always at a lower spec than desktops.

As a result, I don't actually "own" a laptop (the one above is at work). My personal computer is a desktop and will always be so. The flexibility of upgrading and selecting components the way I want is always going to triumph the need for a portable machine.

The issue with AIO desktops is that they make huge profits by just selling "convenience"; most parts are substandard or proprietary which cannot be replaced or upgraded. Some of them have severe forms of problem #2 above, just because of the design.

If portability is not required, go for an assembled desktop only. Not just can the components be upgraded without throwing away the other working ones, but depending on the component it can also be replaced/ repaired.

Some examples:

1. The infamous BLR power cuts and return of power with a bang took down my PSU in 2014. All I had to do was buy a PSU and replace. (This is also why quality should not be compromised in PSU - it should die without passing on the damage).

2. The motherboard battery was dead once - it would reset to a date from 2001 every time I booted; I got a coin battery of same make and replaced it. Such trivial cases do not even need to be taken to the shop - 5 mins on Youtube and an Amazon order, then 5 mins to change it.

3. Here is my 2016 GTX 970 Noctua edition , the 80 mm fans strapped DIY after the OEM fans broke. It now gives me lower temperatures than original and also allows me to overclock safely.

The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread-img_20220110_203932_1.jpg

A laptop would never allow such repairs (apart from maybe RAM/ SSD upgrade), whereas a AIO desktop may not have worked depending on the case clearance and psu connectors.
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Old 10th January 2022, 22:39   #3783
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodie09
I am looking to set up a desktop computer for my 12 year old son, primarily for studying and projects. However, gaming cannot be ruled out with kids. I am not much into computer configurations and only understand the basics. I did search a few online but ended up confused.
I have recently built a PC for my niece, similar age group, little older.

I purchased the parts from local Kolkata Computer market. Prices were around 10-12% cheaper compared to online.

My selection,

Processor -> Intel Core i5 10400 || Rs. 15,800/-
Cooler -> Deep Cool GAMMAXX V200 || Rs. 710/-
Motherboard -> Gigabyte H510 || Rs. 5,800/-
RAM -> Crucial 8x2 16GB DDR4 2666 MHz || Rs. 4,400/-
SSD -> 240GB WD Green M.2 SATA || Rs. 2,150/-
HDD -> 1 TB 7200RPM (some local unknown brand, Consistent) || Rs. 2,350/-
Cabinet -> Mini Tower Local Brand (full black, no RGB + 1 rear fan) with front USB 3 & generic 500W SMPS || Rs. 1,800/-
Display -> LG 24" 75Hz IPS || Rs. 11,800/-
Keyboard / Mouse -> HP Wired Combo || Rs. 750/-

Mouse Pad / Sony MDR-ZX110A (headphone) -> Free Gift

Total -> Rs. 45,560/-

I have compromised with PSU since there is no dedicated GPU. I have avoided the dedicated GPU purchase for the sky high price.

Here it is, pictures taken while putting it together.

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Yes, I had to do some store to store hard bargaining to get a sweet deal.

Thanks.
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Old 11th January 2022, 02:53   #3784
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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Originally Posted by Rodie09 View Post
I am looking to set up a desktop computer for my 12 year old son, primarily for studying and projects.
I am going to go against most recommendations here and suggest you buy a iMac for your kiddo. It is expensive and trust me, it will work without a hitch for 5 years minimum, possibly longer. If that is out of reach, get a Mac Mini with the new ARM chip (I believe thats the only one they sell right now. Intel one's are now retired). iOS and the Mac eco system is most recommended platform in the education space. Its also safe and gives you incredible levels of control over what your kid can and cannot do, without the need for third party Apps. Windows lets you do this and I find it a pain in comparison. Security is unmatched too. No need to download third party apps to secure the computer. Apple's built in security works flawless and I've yet to come across a situation where my son has ever had to reach out to me for help.

The only negative I can highlight with the above is gaming. Most game titles are PC only so this maybe a problem. However, if your kiddo is playing something cloud based like Roblox, it will work on a Mac too.
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Old 11th January 2022, 11:51   #3785
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I am going to go against most recommendations here and suggest you buy a iMac for your kiddo. It is expensive and trust me, it will work without a hitch for 5 years minimum, possibly longer.
I may be a little biased towards PCs, but i don't really think tripling your budget is the way to go here. I think we can rather spend 60-70k on a good Ryzen 5 or R7 PC and it will run without any issues or any bottlenecks for years to come. One thing I've noticed is that GPUs on OLX from hardware resellers are marginally priced lesser than Amazon right now, so that's one place to look out for (scalpers exist everywhere, I don't disagree). Moreover, the integrated graphics on the 5000 series of Ryzen chips are really good AFAIK, and i think the Intel Iris XE graphics are even better! Just my take on this..
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Old 11th January 2022, 12:16   #3786
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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Sony has stopped manfacture of some of it cameras because of chip shortage. Chip shortage is currently applying to all electronics. Surely laptops are also affected?

I agree with everything you are saying, but I actually targetted at only the GPU, which is non existent in desktops nowadays because of the prices, but in laptops, we can get a GTX 1650 for 55k along with a decent, although maybe not as good as a desktop, CPU. For gaming, this would be pretty essential, which is why getting a laptop and hooking it up to a monitor and getting a keyboard + mouse makes much more sense to me. If someone's not willing to get a GPU and use integrated, then that's pretty sweet as well, it won't do much harm on gaming if they are using Iris XE or R5000's integrated graphics.
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Old 12th January 2022, 02:22   #3787
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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I may be a little biased towards PCs, but i don't really think tripling your budget is the way to go here.
Who says you need to triple your budget?

An iMac starts at Rs. 120k and that's pretty much all you need. It is more than capable for what a Student is going to do with it. That is a computer with everything integrated into it. You get the operating system and several well designed Apps built in. Stability is unmatched. The quality of the display alone justifies the extra you pay. Try matching that with a PC and you are likely to pay 80% the cost. No wires running around or clutter. Take out of the box, plug in and you're good to go. No messing with unpredictable driver and software updates. It just works.

A Mac Mini costs the same as the hardware you'll need to build a basic PC.

I am not averse to PC. I use both. For certain applications and use cases, a Mac is unbeatable. For a student, I'd not look ant anything other than a Mac. Besides; Students are eligible for discounts.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 12th January 2022 at 02:27.
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Old 12th January 2022, 02:45   #3788
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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Who says you need to triple your budget?

An iMac starts at Rs. 120k and that's pretty much all you need. It is more than capable for what a Student is going to do with it. That is a computer with everything integrated into it. You get the operating system and several well designed Apps built in. Stability is unmatched. The quality of the display alone justifies the extra you pay. Try matching that with a PC and you are likely to pay 80% the cost. No wires running around or clutter. Take out of the box, plug in and you're good to go. No messing with unpredictable driver and software updates. It just works.

A Mac Mini costs the same as the hardware you'll need to build a basic PC.

I am not averse to PC. I use both. For certain applications and use cases, a Mac is unbeatable. For a student, I'd not look ant anything other than a Mac. Besides; Students are eligible for discounts.
I know I might be nitpicking here, but having a Mac has its own advantages and disadvantages. One of the major ones would be hardware upgradability. With the new M1 chips rolling in, hardware and storage cannot be upgraded which will be a problem in the future. Many people I know have an external HDD which does solve the storage problem but not the RAM. I have used a Mac before (I am a power user, I use around 17 GB out of 28 total on my PC), and after putting a similar amount of load on a 16 GB MacBook Pro, things really started to slow down, which is typical but pretty amazing when you look at how well Mac OS is optimized. Moreover, students do like to game a lot nowadays and especially since the kid is 12 years old, he has plenty of time to play! You don't really have to guess how much kids spend on gaming nowadays especially during the lockdowns . Coming to my third point, I may be wrong on this but I think many programs have not yet been optimized for the M1 chip, which puts a question mark on usability. To sum it up, I honestly think a Mac is great for productivity but I don't think it makes a good all round computer for a teenager.
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Old 12th January 2022, 04:05   #3789
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

We have reached the point at which the question becomes not what is the best hardware, or even the best platform, but what culture does one want to belong to? What way of doing things? The how behind the how things work.

I stepped onto the computer roundabout with Unix (which I then made a career of); I despised DOS as not actually doing something useful, thought Windows was ridiculous as it would not even run two consecutive copy commands, when there were already multi-user derivatives of Unix that ran on the same hardware and Mac... I sort-of knew it was not for me.

So, my chosen system and culture, now, is, of course, Linux. But no, I do not expect it to become the prime operating system on the world's actual desktops, or even the premier platform in certain graphics/etc environments. It's probably not going to top the gaming leagues in the foreseeable future either.

I'd suspect that our 12-yr-old-under-discussion, unless they are inclined towards a system that is fun and interesting to do geeky stuff with in itself before even getting any other software is probably going to be inclined towards Windows. Sad, but that's the truth of it.
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Old 12th January 2022, 04:49   #3790
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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I know I might be nitpicking here, but having a Mac has its own advantages and disadvantages. One of the major ones would be hardware upgradability.
That can be said with just about any operating system you pick.

When you say upgradeability, how often does one head down this road? Ideally, you build your computer with a certain amount of future proofing within. (There is only so much future proofing that you can do these days too, with the advancement of microprocessors and other components)

I don't think a company like Apple would pick a micro processor that will be incompatible with a bulk of software. That will be suicide for their business.

The company I contract for buys no less than 100 Mac's of various kinds a year. Mostly Mack Book Pro's and Mini's. We've yet to run into compatibility issues so far with the M1 chip. We run a few proprietary tools and software on them. We had the same reservations about the M1 initially. So far, it all works flawlessly. The biggest gain has been power efficiency. Those laptops can stay unplugged a lot longer.

Anyway, I am done here. My intent was to point the FM to another suitable option. If it does not work, I understand. They can head down the route they prefer or whatever works best.
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Old 12th January 2022, 23:07   #3791
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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When you say upgradeability, how often does one head down this road?
My computer, first-generation motherboard/cpu went through incremental additions to storage, memory, adding a basic graphics card instead of onboard gpu, etc, etc. It depends on one's wishes. Some people do see computers as "lasting" a certain amount of time. I see them as lasting as long as they physically/electrically work and do the job that one bought them for. Of course, people are also free to spend their money staying up-to-date with the newest and best!
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Anyway, I am done here. My intent was to point the FM to another suitable option. If it does not work, I understand. They can head down the route they prefer or whatever works best.
Absolutely. I never wanted an Apple, but I strongly disagreed with naysayers who claimed that the company was doomed because it only had a small percentage of the PC market. I was right, even though I didn't dream of the iProducts that would come. The Apple thing I really regret not buying is stock!

There are choices. People are free to select or recommend. Of course, each choice has its why-nots too.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 12th January 2022 at 23:09.
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Old 16th January 2022, 22:44   #3792
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Hello All,

Firstly, thanks to all who have been so kind to share their advise promptly on my ask. Really appreciate. So, here I am back with some config and pricing from a reputed and knowledgeable vendor.

Please take a look at the specs and pricing and suggest. Of course this is going way above my 55 K budget for a laptop or AIO initially. But if all this is really worth it, then am okay to stretch. This is now reaching 75-85 k range.
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Old 17th January 2022, 07:25   #3793
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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Please take a look at the specs and pricing and suggest. Of course this is going
I would go with 5600G. That 1030 GPU is not any good at that price. If you feel the need of dedicated GPU then add a better one later when the prices come down.

I would swap the B450 motherboard with B550 for having PCIe-4 buses communicating directly with the CPU, compatibility with high end 5900/5900 and gen 4 M.2 SSD. 550W Power supply is just at the edge, 650W+ will be preferred to accommodate more addon components in future, which surely come with the time goes on. Get only some branded PSU.

About the CPU cooler, get some decent air cooler. Deepcool AS500, Noctua NH U12S/U14S will be silent and will survive far longer, maximum you may have to replace the fan,that too after very long time. These coolers will also be enough for more powerful CPUs like 5900x/5950X so you won't have to buy new cooler when you plan to upgrade the CPU in future. Deepcool is VFM but the pricey Noctua has track record of providing mounts to it's existing buyers if the mounting design is changed in the future iteration of CPU/motherboards.

About the keyboards, get the mechanical keyboard. Though the keyboards with German Cherry MX switches are preferred, but they usually cost above 8K+. Cheapest KB with Cherry MX is Gigabyte K83 which used to be priced at less than 3K when it was last available in India. Check if you can get hands on it anyhow, that will be a investment for lifetime. I still have 25 years old KB with genuine Cherry MX Black switches which came with my first computer, its still in perfectly working condition. Though it lacked some feature like anti ghosting keys so I got new one with Cherry MX Brown switches. Also got another ten-keyless KB from Gamidas for other computer which has got some replica Blue switches, thats also working fine.

That Ant E Sport is mechanical but comes with Chinese replica of Cherry switches which are not bad at that price point. Avoid those membrane based keyboards like Logitech G213, they are pain to use after few months. Though the G512 comes with Logitech's proprietary mechanical switches.

Don't overlook the KB/Mouse, afterall they are the components which connect you with your desktop and can make or spoil the overall user experience.

Last edited by tbppjpr : 17th January 2022 at 07:28.
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Old 17th January 2022, 14:51   #3794
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodie09 View Post
Hello All,

Firstly, thanks to all who have been so kind to share their advise promptly on my ask. Really appreciate. So, here I am back with some config and pricing from a reputed and knowledgeable vendor.

Please take a look at the specs and pricing and suggest. Of course this is going way above my 55 K budget for a laptop or AIO initially. But if all this is really worth it, then am okay to stretch. This is now reaching 75-85 k range.
As tbppjpr mentioned, the GT1030 is pretty much useless, 5600G offers a good integrated GPU. Instead of B450, using B550 would let you use newer CPUs with a BIOS update as well if you want to retain the motherboard. I would recommend looking at the HP K500F which I have been using for around 1.5 years. I really liked the feedback from the keys and it is very comfortable to type on. As for the mouse, I'd go for a Logitech G302 or a Corsair Harpoon Pro, although I do know for a fact that the Logitech will last a lot longer.
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Old 17th January 2022, 15:31   #3795
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Re: The Desktop Computer & Configuration Thread

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... the pricey Noctua has track record of providing mounts to it's existing buyers if the mounting design is changed in the future iteration of CPU/motherboards.
Yes, they do! I got a replacement mount for my new Ryzen processor/motherboard, for a cooler bought nearly a decade ago. Despite their webpage warning that deliver could take some time, it arrived within a couple of weeks of my request, despatched from a distributor in Germany. This is one of the best experiences of customer service I have ever known.

Actually, the Ryzen came with it's own cooler, and it is very quiet and seems good, so I am using that. But nice to have the big Noctua available.
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