My hard desire for 2 years goes down the drain

satish_appasani · 4th September 2006, 17:12

Before i start, this thread is nothing about cars....

For more than 2 years i was dreaming to buy a PDA phone. Slowly this has turned in to hard desire. First i didn't have enough money, then new Windows Mobile 5 is around the corner, then my wife is convinced only after pestering her for 6 months and finally the time comes to get my new PocketPC phone.

After checking all the options, i decided to buy Imate Jasjar with B&W in India and get peace of mind. I paid something that can get me two above mid range Nokia phones and another entry level phone. I wished to use this phone atleast for 3 - 4 years.

I bought the phone on August 1st. Initially i couldn't test all the features like Bluetooth because i didn't have another Bluetooth device. Few times i tried to pair it with friends phone. But it never worked. i thought it was configuration problem and kept trying. Finally i gave up and concluded it's hardware problem. Have to send it to Imate service center in Bangalore through their collection center in Hyderabad. Today i got the message there is some liquid log and the Bluetooth circuit print on the mother board is gone. They are not accepting as manufacturing defect and say warranty is invalid in this case. I am sure i haven't taken it anywhere close to a water or any other liquid.

Initially they were telling me it's moisture. When i questioned, moisture is environmental issue and the device should withstand that, the owner of the Bangalore center swapped his words and is saying that it can be any liquid. The local collection center owner gave me the number of Imate country head but i am unable to reach her so far. Everybody i talk to points me to the owner of Bangalore service center and this guy is very unfriendly. i am 100% sure this is a manufacturing defect.

BTW, the rest of the phone is working perfectly fine. Meanwhile i ordered a BT headset on ebay and got it only after the phone is given at the service center. BT is very important requirement for me and have lots of plans for it.

Is there anyway i can get the think fixed by the company under warranty?

satish_appasani · 4th September 2006, 18:39

If i am ready to pay for the replacement of the mother board it costs 25K.

Do you guys suggest me to file a case in consumer forum? I don't think i will be able to convince the court that i have caused the water logging problem.

condor · 4th September 2006, 19:48

Wait a minute - are they saying that the circuit that's printed, on the board is GONE, dissolved by the liquid that was there? That's BS.

Had you asked the dealer to show you how to get the BT to work?

I dont know the layout of the boards on this device. But:
* If water is able to enter, where is it likely to have entered first? Does it go straight to the area of the PCB which makes the BT work?
* If water does enter, it's going to short the circuits, and your phone should be dead.

Have you tried to google for other reported instances of this problem? This could be from anywhere, not just India.

Also, search for any utils that can be used to test the phone for error codes etc.

satish_appasani · 4th September 2006, 22:19

What they say is that the liquid has shorted the board particularly where BT chip is located. I have downloaded the layout of the motherboard. Tomorrow they are going to send me the snaps of the mother board from my device. I am going to compare both of them.

I searched on the net and forums for similar problems. But no cases found. Phone clearly shows the message "Failure with the Bluetooth Hardware".

Meanwhile i talked to the lady who heads Imate in India. She promised to look in to the issue and get back to me by tomorrow. If at all it is not covered by warranty, she promised that she will give me a fair price.

My plan is, if they don't cover the incident under warranty, i am going to take back my phone and file the case in consumer forum against the dealer who sold me the phone. I am believing as Imate doesn't have a strong presence in India, a strong case against the dealer should be good enough. I am making notes of points that i can use for filing.

Is there anything that i should take in writing from the service center when taking back the phone?

tsk1979 · 4th September 2006, 22:29

Go ahead with the consumer court case. Normaly below 50K cases require just 3-4 hearings with fast track consumer courts.

condor · 5th September 2006, 08:00

When they send you the pics, get them to give you pics that shows water /moisture entry [evidence could be some residue, if it is there]. They just cant say that water entered it - let them prove what they say.

Pls try to have a record of all communication. Atleast e-mails.

I second Tanveer here - take them to court.

navin · 5th September 2006, 13:04

I have notbeen happy with th service on Imate or O2 in India. The people at the collection centers are not able to diagnose even simple problems locally or help with configuring their phones. I have had a string of problems with my Atom and have finally decided to get the Sony P990 (once it is released) and then send my Atom to Chennai for service. After all I still need a phone. If the Atom ever comes back working fine I'll sell it, gift it to a relative I dont like, or shoot it. I dont think anything fruitful will come out of consumer court atleast in Mumbai.

The Atom is decent PDA but a buggy phone. I assume the JasJar is the same.

Other than the fact that one has to carry 2 devics I did not find a better combo than my Palm T3 and Nokia 6230i. The Palm served as an excellent PDA and MP3 player while the 6230i waas my camera-phone.

Steeroid · 5th September 2006, 13:11

Are you registered on Club Imate? Post your issue there for resolution - you can also start a live session with a service agent in Imate Dubai. Explain the problem to them and request for help to resolve the same. Shorting of the board "where the bluetooth chip sits" is nothing but wholesale bulls##t. Ask them to show you the part of the board where this bluetooth chip sits - things are so miniature these days that it is almost impossible to short just one function!

satish_appasani · 5th September 2006, 13:29

I am a member of Club Imate and posted a thread in the forum more than 10 days ago. There are no responses.

Also, i chatted with the live support people online. They are not of much help. The latest response i got from them is the company does not directly deal with the end users. It is left to dealers and support centers and they decide whether to replace, service or ditch people.

I called up the bangalore service center and asked them to send me the pics of the mother board where it has gone bad and possible location on the casing from where water could have creeped in. If things don't turn better, probably i will travel to Bangalore this weekend.

Apart from this issue, Jasjar works perfectly fine for me. It is also good as a phone. True sometimes you have to soft reset the device but it never hangs without you noticing it. I never missed a call. I believe the roms released over time have fixed most of the issues that were there in the initial stages. People with other brands of the same phone also load Imate rom.

zulfikar · 5th September 2006, 13:34

I just bought O2 XDA Exec on Sat....
a frien of mine had bought it and then i bought it from him.
the only problem i have is that the phone is very big,....

Did rom upgrade yesterday online, its a bit faster but again lost all the software and have to install every thing back...

satish_appasani · 7th September 2006, 18:02

Here is the update on my phone:

I received images of the motherboard from the service center. I compared his images with the Jasjar motherboard layout posted on xdadevelopers.com. Here is the link to the layout: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=26375.

Then this is the first image sent by the service center:

The area circled in red (has white marks) is mentioned as water logged area by the service center and the circuit next to it is bluetooth circuit. But when i matched this with the image on xda-developers, the chip next to the marked area is Qualcomm RTR6250 chip and this is a UMTS receiver. This information is found at http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releas...press1130.html. Also the white marks are present in the first image too. I zoomed this a little bit.

.

As i gather more and more information, i am more worried about the service center.

Here are other images

satish_appasani · 7th September 2006, 18:35

Quote:

Also the white marks are present in the first image too.

Here i refered first image to the image on xda-developers site. I mean to say that the board in that image too has similar marks as the ones that the service center mentioned as water logging. Second image in the above post is part of xda-developers image.

If nothing happens by tomorrow, i am planning to travel to Bangalore on Saturday or Sunday.

condor · 8th September 2006, 08:02

I dont see any white marks in the marked area - only see a couple of whitish spots near the pins, which would most probably be reflected light.

Even if that area had water, is the adjacent point on the case of the device, such that water entry can happen?

4th September 2006, 17:12	#1
satish_appasani Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,112 Thanked: 104 Times View My Garage	My hard desire for 2 years goes down the drain Before i start, this thread is nothing about cars.... For more than 2 years i was dreaming to buy a PDA phone. Slowly this has turned in to hard desire. First i didn't have enough money, then new Windows Mobile 5 is around the corner, then my wife is convinced only after pestering her for 6 months and finally the time comes to get my new PocketPC phone. After checking all the options, i decided to buy Imate Jasjar with B&W in India and get peace of mind. I paid something that can get me two above mid range Nokia phones and another entry level phone. I wished to use this phone atleast for 3 - 4 years. I bought the phone on August 1st. Initially i couldn't test all the features like Bluetooth because i didn't have another Bluetooth device. Few times i tried to pair it with friends phone. But it never worked. i thought it was configuration problem and kept trying. Finally i gave up and concluded it's hardware problem. Have to send it to Imate service center in Bangalore through their collection center in Hyderabad. Today i got the message there is some liquid log and the Bluetooth circuit print on the mother board is gone. They are not accepting as manufacturing defect and say warranty is invalid in this case. I am sure i haven't taken it anywhere close to a water or any other liquid. Initially they were telling me it's moisture. When i questioned, moisture is environmental issue and the device should withstand that, the owner of the Bangalore center swapped his words and is saying that it can be any liquid. The local collection center owner gave me the number of Imate country head but i am unable to reach her so far. Everybody i talk to points me to the owner of Bangalore service center and this guy is very unfriendly. i am 100% sure this is a manufacturing defect. BTW, the rest of the phone is working perfectly fine. Meanwhile i ordered a BT headset on ebay and got it only after the phone is given at the service center. BT is very important requirement for me and have lots of plans for it. Is there anyway i can get the think fixed by the company under warranty?
	() Thanks

4th September 2006, 18:39	#2
satish_appasani Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,112 Thanked: 104 Times View My Garage	If i am ready to pay for the replacement of the mother board it costs 25K. Do you guys suggest me to file a case in consumer forum? I don't think i will be able to convince the court that i have caused the water logging problem.
	() Thanks

4th September 2006, 19:48	#3
condor Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Speed-brkr City Posts: 15,864 Thanked: 16,008 Times View My Garage	Wait a minute - are they saying that the circuit that's printed, on the board is GONE, dissolved by the liquid that was there? That's BS. Had you asked the dealer to show you how to get the BT to work? I dont know the layout of the boards on this device. But: * If water is able to enter, where is it likely to have entered first? Does it go straight to the area of the PCB which makes the BT work? * If water does enter, it's going to short the circuits, and your phone should be dead. Have you tried to google for other reported instances of this problem? This could be from anywhere, not just India. Also, search for any utils that can be used to test the phone for error codes etc. Last edited by condor : 4th September 2006 at 19:55.
	() Thanks

4th September 2006, 22:19	#4
satish_appasani Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,112 Thanked: 104 Times View My Garage	What they say is that the liquid has shorted the board particularly where BT chip is located. I have downloaded the layout of the motherboard. Tomorrow they are going to send me the snaps of the mother board from my device. I am going to compare both of them. I searched on the net and forums for similar problems. But no cases found. Phone clearly shows the message "Failure with the Bluetooth Hardware". Meanwhile i talked to the lady who heads Imate in India. She promised to look in to the issue and get back to me by tomorrow. If at all it is not covered by warranty, she promised that she will give me a fair price. My plan is, if they don't cover the incident under warranty, i am going to take back my phone and file the case in consumer forum against the dealer who sold me the phone. I am believing as Imate doesn't have a strong presence in India, a strong case against the dealer should be good enough. I am making notes of points that i can use for filing. Is there anything that i should take in writing from the service center when taking back the phone?
	() Thanks

4th September 2006, 22:29	#5
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,823 Times View My Garage	Go ahead with the consumer court case. Normaly below 50K cases require just 3-4 hearings with fast track consumer courts.
	() Thanks

5th September 2006, 08:00	#6
condor Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Speed-brkr City Posts: 15,864 Thanked: 16,008 Times View My Garage	When they send you the pics, get them to give you pics that shows water /moisture entry [evidence could be some residue, if it is there]. They just cant say that water entered it - let them prove what they say. Pls try to have a record of all communication. Atleast e-mails. I second Tanveer here - take them to court. Last edited by condor : 5th September 2006 at 08:01.
	() Thanks

5th September 2006, 13:04	#7
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,176 Thanked: 9,264 Times	I have notbeen happy with th service on Imate or O2 in India. The people at the collection centers are not able to diagnose even simple problems locally or help with configuring their phones. I have had a string of problems with my Atom and have finally decided to get the Sony P990 (once it is released) and then send my Atom to Chennai for service. After all I still need a phone. If the Atom ever comes back working fine I'll sell it, gift it to a relative I dont like, or shoot it. I dont think anything fruitful will come out of consumer court atleast in Mumbai. The Atom is decent PDA but a buggy phone. I assume the JasJar is the same. Other than the fact that one has to carry 2 devics I did not find a better combo than my Palm T3 and Nokia 6230i. The Palm served as an excellent PDA and MP3 player while the 6230i waas my camera-phone.
	() Thanks

5th September 2006, 13:11	#8
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	Are you registered on Club Imate? Post your issue there for resolution - you can also start a live session with a service agent in Imate Dubai. Explain the problem to them and request for help to resolve the same. Shorting of the board "where the bluetooth chip sits" is nothing but wholesale bulls##t. Ask them to show you the part of the board where this bluetooth chip sits - things are so miniature these days that it is almost impossible to short just one function! Last edited by Steeroid : 5th September 2006 at 13:13.
	() Thanks

5th September 2006, 13:29	#9
satish_appasani Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,112 Thanked: 104 Times View My Garage	I am a member of Club Imate and posted a thread in the forum more than 10 days ago. There are no responses. Also, i chatted with the live support people online. They are not of much help. The latest response i got from them is the company does not directly deal with the end users. It is left to dealers and support centers and they decide whether to replace, service or ditch people. I called up the bangalore service center and asked them to send me the pics of the mother board where it has gone bad and possible location on the casing from where water could have creeped in. If things don't turn better, probably i will travel to Bangalore this weekend. Apart from this issue, Jasjar works perfectly fine for me. It is also good as a phone. True sometimes you have to soft reset the device but it never hangs without you noticing it. I never missed a call. I believe the roms released over time have fixed most of the issues that were there in the initial stages. People with other brands of the same phone also load Imate rom.
	() Thanks

5th September 2006, 13:34	#10
zulfikar BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 532 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	I just bought O2 XDA Exec on Sat.... a frien of mine had bought it and then i bought it from him. the only problem i have is that the phone is very big,.... Did rom upgrade yesterday online, its a bit faster but again lost all the software and have to install every thing back...
	() Thanks

7th September 2006, 18:02	#11
satish_appasani Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,112 Thanked: 104 Times View My Garage	Here is the update on my phone: I received images of the motherboard from the service center. I compared his images with the Jasjar motherboard layout posted on xdadevelopers.com. Here is the link to the layout: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=26375. Then this is the first image sent by the service center: The area circled in red (has white marks) is mentioned as water logged area by the service center and the circuit next to it is bluetooth circuit. But when i matched this with the image on xda-developers, the chip next to the marked area is Qualcomm RTR6250 chip and this is a UMTS receiver. This information is found at http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releas...press1130.html. Also the white marks are present in the first image too. I zoomed this a little bit. . As i gather more and more information, i am more worried about the service center. Here are other images
	() Thanks

8th September 2006, 08:02	#13
condor Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Speed-brkr City Posts: 15,864 Thanked: 16,008 Times View My Garage	I dont see any white marks in the marked area - only see a couple of whitish spots near the pins, which would most probably be reflected light. Even if that area had water, is the adjacent point on the case of the device, such that water entry can happen?
	() Thanks