Team-BHP - Google cuts ties with Huawei

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Originally Posted by ashokrajagopal (Post 4592453)

I have a question here, just trying to understand. Tracking mobile telephony growth, tracking it in a simplistic way of GSM -> 2G -> 3G -> 4G -> 5G, once data became more important than voice, around the 2G era, up until now, IP and the patents are mostly held by Qualcomm, right ?
Considering Qualcomm's unique business style, they did business in China extensively and in the process Huawei acquired some knowledge, which its continued R&D arrived at today's 3GPP standardization for Huwaei, using their technology. Can this be assumed correct ?

If the above is true, US has to be worried for its players. Huwaei with its market penetration in this hemispere, can easily be the dominant player, without paying or playing along with any IP owner when it comes to this part of 5G, right ?

Qualcomm initially developed the CDMA technology which was used extensively in US. Later they developed IP in WCDMA (3G that we used) and became dominant. They continue this in 4G and 5G and just royalties are a great part of their revenue.

3GPP standardization is complex and goes on for years. Some basic things are formulated in terms of requirements initially. Later they start discussing about technologies that could be used. All companies now start showing the technologies they own, their trials, proof of concepts etc and open them up for standards. When they do so they agree to license them at fair terms. All technologies from different companies get added by in similar way. No single company owns everything. So 5G is certainly does not belong to Huawei.

Now Huawei has been aggressive with their investment/trials/getting good people from other companies etc and own part of the IP in 5G. Now they cant be arm twisted in cross-licensing. The key is, given their price they would dominate in deployment. They are now on par with others in R&D. They might have arrived there by hook or crook or with govt helps and the huge chinese market.

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Originally Posted by srishiva (Post 4592542)

Qualcomm initially developed the CDMA technology which was used extensively in US. Later they developed IP in WCDMA (3G that we used) and became dominant. They continue this in 4G and 5G and just royalties are a great part of their revenue.

3GPP standardization is complex and goes on for years. Some basic things are formulated in terms of requirements initially. Later they start discussing about technologies that could be used. All companies now start showing the technologies they own, their trials, proof of concepts etc and open them up for standards. When they do so they agree to license them at fair terms. All technologies from different companies get added by in similar way. No single company owns everything. So 5G is certainly does not belong to Huawei.

Now Huawei has been aggressive with their investment/trials/getting good people from other companies etc and own good part of the IP in 5G. Now they cant be arm twisted in cross-licesing. The key is, given their price they would dominate in deployment. They are now on par with others in R&D. They might have arrived there by hook or crook or with govt helps and the huge chinese market.

Thank you for the explanation, it is much clearer.

Another thing that adds up to this ban is the competition that Huawei brings to Cisco and Motorola in the world of IT infrastructure. There had been serious competition between these players in the field of building up the internet infrastructure (or say expanding them). One of the main reason for targeting Huawei is the still not proven claims of data spying by the router and switches made by Huawei.

They make great phones and they have the best antennas for network reception, call quality on Huawei phones just make iPhones fail miserably.

Huawei phones can never challenge Apple, to be honest. Apple sells an image, a lifestyle - and the buyer doesn't look at antenna reception. The issue seems to be resolved, somewhat, and I hear 'warmongering' and 'chest thumping' very close to the US elections.

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Originally Posted by psmenon (Post 4592819)

They make great phones and they have the best antennas for network reception, call quality on Huawei phones just make iPhones fail miserably.

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Originally Posted by Sebring (Post 4592838)

Huawei phones can never challenge Apple, to be honest. Apple sells an image, a lifestyle - and the buyer doesn't look at antenna reception.

I don't believe it's just about the brand image impact; rather the impact on the stock movement. From a numbers perspective, Huawei is racing ahead and already taken the #2 spot worldwide from Apple (with a few back & forth swings); plus their strategy is working much better in China and smartphone growth areas like India and SE Asia; while they have been trying hard to hit stronger in the US. And that impacts the stocks much more than the brand or lifestyle quotient.

In fact there has been a lot of push on the US carriers to prevent them from selling Huwaei mobiles as an alternative to Apple & Samsung.

Link

This news is music to my ears since Monday. In Dubai my dream phone is already within my budget 'The Mighty Mate 20 X'. I had tweeted many times in the past to Huawei India requesting to launch this phone in India and every time they will reply "watch this space".

As all the existing phones manufactured will be supported I'm not at all worried. With 205 Million shipments last year Huawei is a Blue Whale out of the net for Google if they let loose them so easily.

I seriously believe that it's time for a new OS competitive enough to challenge IOS & Android. Hope this will be a triggering point.

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by myavu (Post 4592856)

I seriously believe that it's time for a new OS competitive enough to challenge IOS & Android. Hope this will be a triggering point.

Cheers!

Bigger players like Microsoft/Samsung are out of the OS game. With the amount of money Google/Apple has, they will just buy and kill a new entrant in no time. Only potential is a Chinese OS, which has never been their strength.

Look, if you're talking stocks, Apple is perched at the very top. Being the most valuable company, and all. From here, it can only move southwards, unless they have something earth shattering in the pipeline, which I doubt. It's very tough to convert an Apple user to Huawei was what I'm implying. In the Android space, they are stealing market share from each other. The rest of the pie is larger, as you know! Regarding protectionism, I feel that will reduce as Apple will be making the iPhone in India now, and contrary to what Trump wants!

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli (Post 4592848)

I don't believe it's just about the brand image impact; rather the impact on the stock movement.

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Originally Posted by PrideRed (Post 4592865)

With the amount of money Google/Apple has, they will just buy and kill a new entrant in no time. Only potential is a Chinese OS, which has never been their strength.

But not in the case if Huawei come up with a new OS. They will not be selling it to Google or Apple definitely. They have a huge number of consumer base around the globe. Their phones are desirable. Their SOCs are monsters as well as power efficient. The only challenge is most common apps. If the portability is ease and developers paid well they can bridge the gap.

Huawei coming up with a global OS and making it a success is a very tough ask. Bigger stalwarts like Nokia , Samsung and Blackberry tried and failed. It simply is not possible to match the app ecosystem of android and iOS. It is the basic apps like Whatsapp and google suite of products that will pose a problem. Just Facebook can kill an upcoming OS by deciding they will not make apps for them. All these supposed social network sites works on custom protocols and it is not possible to develop clients for them without owners consent.

Another thing to consider here is the government support. If Chinese goverment decides to ban android in china, then it is game on. That is all the support Huawei will need to prosper a new OS. App ecosystem will grow in china and it would be less difficult for them to take that ecosystem to the outside world and complete with android and iOS.

As a side note to this topic, all this is in some way a result of American corporate "greed".

The cost cutting, margin improvement programs that involved offshoring of manufacturing to China in the previous millennium starting with biggies like GE and later came the IT companies only facilitated all this fiasco about copy-cat culture in China ... all in the name of globalization (one integrated global economy) perhaps?

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Originally Posted by https://www.afr.com/technology/web/security/how-chinese-hacking-felled-telecommunication-giant-nortel-20140526-iux6a

Shapiro says China has a different moral system to the US.
“I speak to my companies in China and they know stuff is going out the back door and being copied," he says.

“It’s the biggest problem anyone who does business with China has.
“You can’t do business there without a local partner, and eventually they’ll figure out what you do and take it from you."

Very true. In fact we in India (with extremely lax business ethics) feel quite threatened by the level of unscrupulous behavior displayed our Chinese counterparts (anecdotally with respect to my profile and industry)

I'm now regretting to have gone with a Huawei phone. I was a bit tight on budget and was also longing for a flagship experience on a budget (let's say owning a Merc but owning a Merc A-Class!). That is when Huawei matched my requirements and I went ahead with my purchase.

I was expecting this to happen sooner or later. Huawei is accused of stealing the data from back end which is not a good thing. Despite this, they held strong in the market and their market share spoke for themselves.

What this potentially means is, no new software updates over-the-air (in which Huawei was always prompt in updating their older devices too) and no Google support means we're literally doomed. But I hope it's sorted out soon. It's hardly a month or more since I got my hands on my phone and getting a phone for an unemployed student is a big thing!!