How to connect two buildings via wireless LAN

amitverma · 8th March 2007, 23:48

why not setup a radio link between the 2 buildings. i am currently using a radio link between my 2 offices in new delhi which happen to fall under a 1.5 km radius with no clear LoS. and it works like a charm.
i havent followed the thread completely, so tell me if i am missing anything.

tsk1979 · 9th March 2007, 13:08

What is the througput you are getting. With WLAN(g) you can get actual throughput of about 15-20MBps.

amitverma · 9th March 2007, 14:56

i am a Cable Internet Provider in New Delhi. being covering a large area, we setup 2 offices to cut down on wire costs. the throughput is enough to cater to our needs which surely u can imagine are quite high. and it will not be the most economical solution, as, the last i remember, i paid 15k for the radio link a year back, but, this surely would be a very good alternative to all the suggestions that have been given in the thread thus far. no offence meant to anyone.

tsk1979 · 9th March 2007, 15:38

But sure you would have measured the throughput.
IS it as high as 20Mbps which is with WLAN?
Quite high is not really specific. When I started on internet 14400bps was "quite high", and 8MB of RAM was quite a bit.

esteem_lover · 9th March 2007, 15:52

to add to that : and a HDD was awesome

SumitB · 9th March 2007, 16:51

Radio link is a good thing for ISP services.....i.e. getting the bandwidth from your supplier (eg. Primus) to your last mile distribution center. Whats the maximum bandwidth are you using? You cannot go above 8Mbps on the radio link therefore using Radio for a LAN setup is a definite no-no. Radio in real-life situation will be a headace if used as a LAN medium. Samurai's requirement is more or less 500mts. If he uses a radio link, he cannot get above 8Mbps. But with a WiFi 802.11x, he can get upto 54 Mbps (I am not going into boost links which claim 108 or even greater). This for a LAN is ideal as there will not be any slowdowns. Also keep in mind that the Radio link will be affected by the weather whereas the weather has little influence on the WiFi link.

OT @ AmitVerma: Which part of delhi do you operate. Can I have some information about your fanchisee terms?

amitverma · 14th March 2007, 00:33

we have allocated 2MBPS to the region. i am sorry but i didnt quite know the actual throughput being transferred through the radio link.
anyhow, as Sumit has correctly pointed out, radiolink clearly isnt the way to go as far as LAN is concerned. I was under the impression, if the radio link can handle internet bandwidth, it sure as hell can handle Local Area Connections. thanks for pointing that out Sumit.

anyways, i would really be interested to know what solution does make it to the end? Samurai, do keep us posted.

rishibravo · 15th March 2007, 16:33

I think Wi Max can be a solution. Its IEEE 802.16 .Dont know how expensive it would get but you just need two accesspoints on the two building and it would suffice

SumitB · 15th March 2007, 17:10

WiMax as a consumer to consumer solution will be exorbitantly expensive at the moment. WiMax is a solution which is currently being deployed by Service Providers and the Base Stations are quite costly. As far as I can read into the requirement here, WiFi 802.11b will be ideal for Samurai.

normally_crazy · 24th April 2007, 21:30

I had this this problem of connecting my other 2 locations to the main location. Wanted both of them on LAN.

Bldg A is the main building housing the server. Bldg B and C are my other locations with a third party location and 2 roads 65 feet wide in between.

So now what i have done -

1) Got 3 outdoor wireless access points in bridged mode on top of all 3 buildings. Apparently these have a range of upto 5 kms.

2) Got the Outdoor access points wired to a wifi access point (linksys) in building B and C.

3) Set up the system and voila , I am in business now. A couple of desktops have wifi Lan cards and the laptops as it is are wifi enabled.

I can access data on my LAN server in Building A and also internet is now shared in all 3 buildings. i haven't noticed a drop in speeds while surfing ( will update in a couple of days )

Also now with this system I can have other add ons as well. Like IP cameras in B and C , EPABX can also be setup via these outdoor access points, as can swiping of cards in different locations (A,B,C) which can be updated in a server in one place say A.

have called for a demo of EPABX system and the swipe card system for employees which should be probably next week. Will keep you guys updated.

Also will post some pics of the actual equipment used tomorrow.

ankur · 25th April 2007, 18:07

If you want a serious reliable link, go for a managed wire link, ideally ethernet on fiber. Your local ISP/phone provider may be able to help you set this up and manage it.

Wifi outdoor (or 2.4ghz even indoors) is prone to serious interference and you may have service interruptions.

cheers.

Samurai · 31st July 2007, 18:56

The time has arrived, I have the equipment ready, but now I am concerned about security.

I have two Buffalo WiFi router/AP and two Backfire directional antennas.

Planning to connect it this way. There is an antenna at each end.

The default connections are no brainer, the equipment vendor (Radio Lab) suggested repeater mode using WDS. BUT, WDS only works with WEP and not WPA. I don't want to use WEP, it can be easily broken, you can download WEP crackers from the Internet.

Is there any other mode I can use which allows me to use WPA? The wireless connectivity is strictly between the two AP, I don't plan to connect any Wifi client.

Would some Wifi guru kindly tell me how I can avoid WDS and still make the above connection work? How to bridge without WDS? I just need a point-to-point wireless ethernet bridge.

Samurai · 1st August 2007, 20:34

May there is a solution... the router I have is Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 and this is supported by DD-WRT. So, this hack is the only way to go.

spadival · 1st August 2007, 20:48

I think you can also restrict the computers that connect to the A/P by specifying the MAC address of each n/w adaptor that connects to the A/P.

But if only this method is used to restrict access, it probably means the signals arent encrypted ?

Samurai · 2nd August 2007, 23:30

Today I finally got the setup to work. I connected one router to Airtel at my home and the other router (in bridge mode) at the office. I replaced the original antenna with long range backfire antenna. It worked in the very first attempt. Then I reduced the power on both side to 25% and still worked equally well. The distance covered is 760 meters.

However, today I used WEP, that is not so safe. But the buffalo router doesn't allow anything better. Therefore, I replaced the firmware of these brand new routers with dd-wrt opensource firmware. Tomorrow I will be testing this setup with WPA-PSK. Ideally I want to make it work with WPA2. Well, one step at a time.

8th March 2007, 23:48	#46
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 140 Times	why not setup a radio link between the 2 buildings. i am currently using a radio link between my 2 offices in new delhi which happen to fall under a 1.5 km radius with no clear LoS. and it works like a charm. i havent followed the thread completely, so tell me if i am missing anything.
	() Thanks

9th March 2007, 13:08	#47
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	What is the througput you are getting. With WLAN(g) you can get actual throughput of about 15-20MBps.
	() Thanks

9th March 2007, 14:56	#48
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 140 Times	i am a Cable Internet Provider in New Delhi. being covering a large area, we setup 2 offices to cut down on wire costs. the throughput is enough to cater to our needs which surely u can imagine are quite high. and it will not be the most economical solution, as, the last i remember, i paid 15k for the radio link a year back, but, this surely would be a very good alternative to all the suggestions that have been given in the thread thus far. no offence meant to anyone.
	() Thanks

9th March 2007, 15:38	#49
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	But sure you would have measured the throughput. IS it as high as 20Mbps which is with WLAN? Quite high is not really specific. When I started on internet 14400bps was "quite high", and 8MB of RAM was quite a bit.
	() Thanks

9th March 2007, 15:52	#50
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	to add to that : and a HDD was awesome
	() Thanks

9th March 2007, 16:51	#51
SumitB BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Shillong Posts: 986 Thanked: 263 Times	Radio link is a good thing for ISP services.....i.e. getting the bandwidth from your supplier (eg. Primus) to your last mile distribution center. Whats the maximum bandwidth are you using? You cannot go above 8Mbps on the radio link therefore using Radio for a LAN setup is a definite no-no. Radio in real-life situation will be a headace if used as a LAN medium. Samurai's requirement is more or less 500mts. If he uses a radio link, he cannot get above 8Mbps. But with a WiFi 802.11x, he can get upto 54 Mbps (I am not going into boost links which claim 108 or even greater). This for a LAN is ideal as there will not be any slowdowns. Also keep in mind that the Radio link will be affected by the weather whereas the weather has little influence on the WiFi link. OT @ AmitVerma: Which part of delhi do you operate. Can I have some information about your fanchisee terms?
	() Thanks

14th March 2007, 00:33	#52
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 140 Times	we have allocated 2MBPS to the region. i am sorry but i didnt quite know the actual throughput being transferred through the radio link. anyhow, as Sumit has correctly pointed out, radiolink clearly isnt the way to go as far as LAN is concerned. I was under the impression, if the radio link can handle internet bandwidth, it sure as hell can handle Local Area Connections. thanks for pointing that out Sumit. anyways, i would really be interested to know what solution does make it to the end? Samurai, do keep us posted.
	() Thanks

15th March 2007, 16:33	#53
rishibravo BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 579 Thanked: 11 Times View My Garage	I think Wi Max can be a solution. Its IEEE 802.16 .Dont know how expensive it would get but you just need two accesspoints on the two building and it would suffice
	() Thanks

15th March 2007, 17:10	#54
SumitB BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Shillong Posts: 986 Thanked: 263 Times	WiMax as a consumer to consumer solution will be exorbitantly expensive at the moment. WiMax is a solution which is currently being deployed by Service Providers and the Base Stations are quite costly. As far as I can read into the requirement here, WiFi 802.11b will be ideal for Samurai.
	() Thanks

24th April 2007, 21:30	#55
normally_crazy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,369 Thanked: 528 Times View My Garage	I had this this problem of connecting my other 2 locations to the main location. Wanted both of them on LAN. Bldg A is the main building housing the server. Bldg B and C are my other locations with a third party location and 2 roads 65 feet wide in between. So now what i have done - 1) Got 3 outdoor wireless access points in bridged mode on top of all 3 buildings. Apparently these have a range of upto 5 kms. 2) Got the Outdoor access points wired to a wifi access point (linksys) in building B and C. 3) Set up the system and voila , I am in business now. A couple of desktops have wifi Lan cards and the laptops as it is are wifi enabled. I can access data on my LAN server in Building A and also internet is now shared in all 3 buildings. i haven't noticed a drop in speeds while surfing ( will update in a couple of days ) Also now with this system I can have other add ons as well. Like IP cameras in B and C , EPABX can also be setup via these outdoor access points, as can swiping of cards in different locations (A,B,C) which can be updated in a server in one place say A. have called for a demo of EPABX system and the swipe card system for employees which should be probably next week. Will keep you guys updated. Also will post some pics of the actual equipment used tomorrow.
	() Thanks

25th April 2007, 18:07	#56
ankur BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 171 Thanked: 2 Times	If you want a serious reliable link, go for a managed wire link, ideally ethernet on fiber. Your local ISP/phone provider may be able to help you set this up and manage it. Wifi outdoor (or 2.4ghz even indoors) is prone to serious interference and you may have service interruptions. cheers.
	() Thanks

31st July 2007, 18:56	#57
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,828 Thanked: 45,519 Times View My Garage	The time has arrived, I have the equipment ready, but now I am concerned about security. I have two Buffalo WiFi router/AP and two Backfire directional antennas. Planning to connect it this way. There is an antenna at each end. The default connections are no brainer, the equipment vendor (Radio Lab) suggested repeater mode using WDS. BUT, WDS only works with WEP and not WPA. I don't want to use WEP, it can be easily broken, you can download WEP crackers from the Internet. Is there any other mode I can use which allows me to use WPA? The wireless connectivity is strictly between the two AP, I don't plan to connect any Wifi client. Would some Wifi guru kindly tell me how I can avoid WDS and still make the above connection work? How to bridge without WDS? I just need a point-to-point wireless ethernet bridge.
	() Thanks

1st August 2007, 20:34	#58
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,828 Thanked: 45,519 Times View My Garage	May there is a solution... the router I have is Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 and this is supported by DD-WRT. So, this hack is the only way to go.
	() Thanks

1st August 2007, 20:48	#59
spadival Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Melbourne, AU Posts: 1,773 Thanked: 26 Times View My Garage	I think you can also restrict the computers that connect to the A/P by specifying the MAC address of each n/w adaptor that connects to the A/P. But if only this method is used to restrict access, it probably means the signals arent encrypted ?
	() Thanks

2nd August 2007, 23:30	#60
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,828 Thanked: 45,519 Times View My Garage	Today I finally got the setup to work. I connected one router to Airtel at my home and the other router (in bridge mode) at the office. I replaced the original antenna with long range backfire antenna. It worked in the very first attempt. Then I reduced the power on both side to 25% and still worked equally well. The distance covered is 760 meters. However, today I used WEP, that is not so safe. But the buffalo router doesn't allow anything better. Therefore, I replaced the firmware of these brand new routers with dd-wrt opensource firmware. Tomorrow I will be testing this setup with WPA-PSK. Ideally I want to make it work with WPA2. Well, one step at a time.
	() Thanks