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Old 16th December 2019, 09:49   #1
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Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Most people would be unaware that Android is Linux & most people have no issues using it over their Phone.

The predominant desktop (laptop / notebook / desktop) operating systems (OS) have been Windows and Mac OS.

I have been using Linux operating system (there are many of them) close to a decade and I have introduced Linux operating systems to friends and most of them like it.

When I interacted with friends about using a different operating systems, they were not sure of moving out or trying it either. Some reasons were:

1. "Linux" - Its Linux, that is not for a normal user its for techies

2. Moving out of comfort zone

3. May need troubleshooting, which they were not comfortable with.

4. Did not want to use other office software

5. Support for their favorite game was not there

6. The word Linux its self did not denote a graphical user interface, it mostly gave the picture of using command line or programming.


The reasons i moved (in 2010) from Windows OS (XP) to Linux OS (Ubuntu) were:
1. Speed - I got the most out of my hardware, this I realized in a very short span of time and

2. I did not believe in paying money for any office software or for OS.

3. I did not want to use a pirated version of windows.

I request BHPians to comment on what reasons they think prevent them from trying out Linux or using it on their desktop on a day to day basis.
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Old 16th December 2019, 12:27   #2
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

I blame the herd mentality. Windows Phone was launched a few years after iOS or Android. That meant that most of the manufacturers had already decided on using Android for their devices. The only manufacturer to really give a chance to give Windows Phone a chance was Nokia who had already seen their Symbian OS shunned by consumers after smartphones became mainstream.

Currently, given that there are only two choices, people who want Apple devices buy iPhones, and others buy Android phones.
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Old 16th December 2019, 12:33   #3
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpnpmr View Post

I request BHPians to comment on what reasons they think prevent them from trying out Linux or using it on their desktop on a day to day basis.
I am not a full time linux user, but have been using various distros part time for very long. A few of my friends also use linux part time (like at their home desktop or at an old laptop), most of them switched after my influence.Two biggest reasons are: 1. Moving out of comfort zone 2. People buy what is in market - either PC or a Mac and that sufficiently meets most or all of one's requirements. Since not everyone is eagle eyed to explore and experiment, thats end of the story for most.
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Old 16th December 2019, 12:37   #4
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Very simple. No one knows how to!

All laptops today come with Windows as default and no one really knows that any option even exist (same case with android for phones).

If anyone can build an App, which we can download and install to switch OS, people may be able to use this. But most users cant even go to safe mode without instructions, forget switching their OS.

Your point of view is from a techie, I guess, but most of India is very technologically challenged.
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Old 16th December 2019, 12:45   #5
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Linux lacks developer support. Many softwares like games and media editing programs don't support or Linux or Updates are delayed. Not just that, many hardwares such as Printers, scanners, usb dongles do not have Linux support.
Windows on PC is dead easy to use. Ofcourse there were bad versions like Vista and Win 8 but then Win XP, Win 7, Win 10, all have been good and easy. I believe ease of use is why people prefer Windows.

Similarly Android was very easy and is still the easiest OS to master. Maximum software and hardware support and also is cheaper. iOS was the benchmark for years, but even that is suffering now due to poor quality software updates, lesser app support, and also poor pricing atleast in India.

Android may be a Linux underneath but both Android has moved ahead in terms of quality and ease of use.
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Old 16th December 2019, 13:41   #6
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dileepcm View Post
Two biggest reasons are: 1. Moving out of comfort zone 2. People buy what is in market - either PC or a Mac and that sufficiently meets most or all of one's requirements.
Thanks for your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KL01toKA03 View Post
Windows Phone was launched a few years after iOS or Android. That meant that most of the manufacturers had already decided on using Android for their devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000rpm View Post

All laptops today come with Windows as default and no one really knows that any option even exist (same case with android for phones).

Your point of view is from a techie, I guess, but most of India is very technologically challenged.
Its true that most people have no clue that something else exists. As for the point of view - I am not a techie and my friends to whom I introduced Linux, none is a techie.

Its also true that laptops come pre loaded with Windows and hardware support exists by default for Windows. Linux OS is pre loaded on a few models of DELL, other that there is a long way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya_Bhp View Post
Not just that, many hardwares such as Printers, scanners, usb dongles do not have Linux support.
Windows on PC is dead easy to use. I believe ease of use is why people prefer Windows.

Similarly Android was very easy and is still the easiest OS to master. Maximum software and hardware support and also is cheaper. Android may be a Linux underneath but both Android has moved ahead in terms of quality and ease of use.
Thanks for your opinion. I have used Ubuntu for nearly 10 years now, I have done occasional troubleshooting, other than I run HP printer, connect my system to projector, no Wifi or bluetooth issues & no issues with say files formats or using CD / DVD drives etc

The Chinese Govt announced that it will be removing Windows from all its Govt offices, indirectly, this implies that a Linux OS developed in China is going to be used. Deepin which is a beautiful OS developed in China is available for desktops, however, the Chinese may develop something else. How the rest of the World will accept is another big question though.
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Old 16th December 2019, 13:48   #7
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

I can say that I have managed to have my wife, who is not an IT techie, migrate to Linux (Mint). Though she did have the same things to say, as many have and would, here, with regards to the ease of use of Windows etc., she is very comfortable using Linux for over 3 years now. She uses Linux to do a whole lot of audio, photo and video editing, on her own. It is just a case of getting used to. That's it. Yes, there are software that need windows but then unless there is a specific need for that software, Linux does the job. For any windows only software, she uses a VM, and that's become a rarity.

Last edited by swissknife : 16th December 2019 at 13:49.
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Old 16th December 2019, 13:58   #8
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Did use Linux-Ubuntu in the 'double-boot' form. Yes it worked well in the early iterations, but even making a printer work was an uphill task. I read about and downloaded Ubuntu from the net and made a copy and was using it. It was fast and IRCTC used to work really well and booking tickets was a lot faster. Somewhere down the line, updates really screwed it up and I just gave up on it and now I'm a full time Windows 10 user. An OS should be "user-friendly": if one had to start a car like one had to start a 'Spitfire' fighter then a lot of us wouldn't be driving a car. To draw an analogy why is Hindustani and Carnatic music not as popular as the main stream music: Hindustani and Carnatic are grammar on which music is written and grammar tends to get a little boring.
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Old 16th December 2019, 14:18   #9
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Some related threads for your reading pleasure:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...u-use-why.html (Which linux distro do you use, and why?)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...rt-thread.html (Team-BHP Linux support thread)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...ux-thread.html (The Ubuntu Linux Thread)
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Old 16th December 2019, 14:25   #10
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
Did use Linux-Ubuntu in the 'double-boot' form. Yes it worked well in the early iterations, but even making a printer work was an uphill task. Somewhere down the line, updates really screwed it up...
Very similar experience. Used Ubuntu exclusively on my previous laptop for a long time. Was also caught up in the FOSS-evangelism and 'Windows-evil' thing. But getting simple stuff done was often becoming a matter of getting into the config files and having to do extra setup. Enjoyed doing that for a bit, but eventually got fed up. The reality is that since Win is more prevalent, most third-party peripherals and software just works out of the box with that. My new laptop is Win 10, stuff just works, that's all I need.
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Old 16th December 2019, 14:51   #11
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpnpmr View Post
I request BHPians to comment on what reasons they think prevent them from trying out Linux or using it on their desktop on a day to day basis.
Short answer: Simply because even the most supported linux distro fails miserably in front of Windows when it comes to the most fundamental task, day-to-day usage.

Long answer: My mother in law had been using ubuntu laptop (AMD apu from 2016 I think) for several years for only one purpose, watching old sitcoms from a portable hard disk. The laptop was not used for any other purpose so never connected to internet and thus ran very old ubuntu distro. Last year, I needed to use internet on it and couldn't log in to gmail since it didn't support old version of browser and newer version won't install on old distro. I stayed up all night to upgrade through 2-3 intermediate ubuntu versions to reach latest available one.

And then horror hit me. Ubuntu GUI won't work since AMD no longer releases linux drivers for that APU. I spent an hour looking for and installing workaround drivers. Next horror, the drivers are not optimised for video and so playback drops frames and stutters.

Needless to say, nobody was pleased. I spent another night fighting for ubuntu, eventually giving up and installing a fresh copy of Windows 10.

Quote:
2. I did not believe in paying money for any office software or for OS.
I don't know what it is with Windows 10 but I downloaded a copy from MS website which works fine and downloads all updates. I get a 'not authenticated copy' message but I think that is small trade-off. MS Office is of course not free but there are tons of perfectly usable free office software.

To sum up, I have been a huge linux advocate for 15 years trying to prove how linux does everything that Windows does. Sadly, I believe linux has lost desktop war. Windows is the way to go for all but the geekiest of geeks.
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Old 16th December 2019, 15:02   #12
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

Well, I for one have and still a big linux/ubuntu fan. I take every opportunity I can to use linux/ubuntu and enjoy it. But unfortunately, they are not very supportive with some models/laptops. I tried installing one in my Lenovo Thinkpad and ended up with massive heating and CPU overloading issues. Tried everything I could find in the internet and finally found that my hardware is incompatible with the Ubuntu 18.04 or Mint 19.x series. Even Ubuntu 16.04 was causing massive issues and ended up going back to windows.

The only solution was to use Ubuntu 12.X or Mint 14.x versions. This is no different from windows but atleast, it lets me control the CPU and thermal system more efficiently than in Ubuntu/Linux. I am still a fan of Linux/ubuntu and would only buy a hardware next time around and put linux/ubuntu on it.

P.S: Damn windows is slow and so much bloatware.
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Old 16th December 2019, 15:22   #13
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

I have been using Linux on and off since 1994, when I first loaded Slackware Linux on my PC. Then Linux could run over DOS, imagine that... Yes, you could dual boot it too. Since then I have used Red Hat (before it turned commercial), Arch-Linux, Ubuntu and finally sticking to Debian. My company products are mainly offered on Debian, unless the customer insists on Windows. Back in 2010, I triple booted my 27 inch iMac, with MacOS, Windows and Arch-Linux. It was not easy though. That should establish that I am not exactly a technology noob.

For work/home desktop I still stick to Windows 10 Pro. My photoshop CS4 works only on Windows, and there is no Linux version. The best C++ IDE still happens to be Visual Studio, so I can't avoid that too. I know, the production code that runs on Debian is actually developed and tested in Windows.

Recently, my son (B.Com student) needed a new laptop. After checking his needs, I decided that he can manage with a Linux laptop. And he was ok with trying a new OS. But I couldn't get a good Linux laptop with SSD for the budget we had. I finally looked up Windows laptops and saw some juicy deals with SSD. So I figured I'll get the Windows laptop and replace the OS with Linux.

However, once I replaced the Windows with Debian 10, I realized that the Wifi is not working. I have to download some driver source code from github and rebuild the kernel, restart after disabling secure boot. So, I did that, and Wifi started working. But only when the laptop is in clear sight of the wifi router. Even the speed was 10 times slower. It simply wouldn't work in my son's room. I tried ubuntu 18 and 19 too. Same result, rebuild kernel and get weak Wifi function.

After two days of struggle, my son was irritated, and I gave up. I put Windows 10 back and Wifi started working gloriously from the get go. My son could finally use his laptop.

So this is what prevents Linux from becoming part of every household. Because there are so many distros, most device manufacturers don't bother testing their hardware with all these distros. Most users are not capable of rebuilding kernels to make things work, or still not work.
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Old 16th December 2019, 15:43   #14
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

I always wanted to love Linux, got dual boot on my PC during my student days in 2000. But what prevents me:
  • Limited eco-system preventing smooth transition of data
  • Lac of efficient drivers for majority of devices, limited functionality for peripheral device software.
  • GUI providers does not have efficient way of handling security and other issues/glitches like MS and needs a lot of attention from users to manage those.
  • Look and feel
Major drawback is, Linux based systems need a lot of attention to run. Google chrome OS is fast filling up the gap, but still a lot needs to be done before accepted by the mass.

This has been beautifully explained by Samurai sir also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
So this is what prevents Linux from becoming part of every household. Because there are so many distros, most device manufacturers don't bother testing their hardware with all these distros. Most users are not capable of rebuilding kernels to make things work, or still not work.
By the way, majority of non-tech PC users are not really aware of OS, they just buy the one that the salesman suggests and are within their budget.

Our organization tried using Ubuntu based laptops sometimes back, which miserably failed to match efficiency, support and convenience of MS based OS. Everyone got Windows over VM for those Ubuntu based laptops within 3 months just to get rid of that crap that they called email client . Apparently, those machines were gradually replaced with Windows clients.

Last edited by PetrolRider : 16th December 2019 at 15:47.
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Old 16th December 2019, 15:49   #15
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re: Android is Linux! What prevents BHPians from using Linux on their desktop?

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Originally Posted by swissknife View Post
I can say that I have managed to have my wife, who is not an IT techie, migrate to Linux (Mint). For any windows only software, she uses a VM, and that's become a rarity.
Congratulations. I am using Mint too now, works fine for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
To draw an analogy why is Hindustani and Carnatic music not as popular as the main stream music: Hindustani and Carnatic are grammar on which music is written and grammar tends to get a little boring.
Thanks. Although I am a linux fan, I have to admit the analogy is good!

Quote:
Originally Posted by am1m View Post
The reality is that since Win is more prevalent, most third-party peripherals and software just works out of the box with that.
Thanks for your reply. Yes its is true that getting peripherals to work may need troubleshooting - not easy for all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksameer1234 View Post
Short answer: Simply because even the most supported linux distro fails miserably in front of Windows when it comes to the most fundamental task, day-to-day usage.

Long answer: I stayed up all night to upgrade through 2-3 intermediate ubuntu versions to reach latest available one. And then horror hit me. Ubuntu GUI won't work since AMD no longer releases linux drivers for that APU.

Sadly, I believe linux has lost desktop war. Windows is the way to go for all but the geekiest of geeks.
I never upgrade from version to version in Ubuntu, I always use the DVD / USB which I create from website and always use LTS versions of Ubuntu. Never had issues till now. Things on Linux Desktop may change with newer versions / OS like Solus, Deepin, Manjaro and Elementary. There is lot of discussion over ZFS filesystem and Ubuntu - however the LTS is coming next year and time will tell how things change with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
I tried installing one in my Lenovo Thinkpad and ended up with massive heating and CPU overloading issues.
P.S: Damn windows is slow and so much bloatware.
I have had heating issues with Ubuntu 14.04LTS but 16.04LTS and later, no issues. In addition, Linux mint on my new system, I have no issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
My company products are mainly offered on Debian, unless the customer insists on Windows.

But I couldn't get a good Linux laptop with SSD for the budget we had. I finally looked up Windows laptops and saw some juicy deals with SSD. So I figured I'll get the Windows laptop and replace the OS with Linux. However, once I replaced the Windows with Debian 10, I realized that the Wifi is not working.
Thanks for your reply, I had wifi issues in my new laptop with SSD - installed Mint on it. I went through blogs and got the driver, faced an issue of slow wifi and the linux mint forum helped me out with it. So the first 2 days with the new system was an issue after that my laptop is doing fine.
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