Team-BHP > Shifting gears


Reply
  Search this Thread
2,220,665 views
Old 24th March 2018, 19:19   #5836
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 10,958
Thanked: 26,126 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by diyguy View Post
I've never had to pay duty maybe by pure luck.
Me neither, although most of my items (except maybe one or two) would have been below the limit. Duty payable on any other package was just given to the postman. I know people who regularly buy hifi from abroad: where larger amounts are concerned, they prefer to visit their local post office.

I just had my first Ali-Express no-show. The sellers asked me to extend the time and then raise a dispute for a refund. I asked, couldn't they just send it again; they said, "Sure! OK!" So I wait in hopes. Oh, now they inform me that the original has been returned to them! Photography, tripod-head quick-release clamp, value merely Rs.850.

My big caution with China shopping is not to jump to the conclusion that it will be the cheapest price. I have brought several Sirui tripod/accessory items recently, and all them have been cheaper to buy from Indian dealers. And, of course, they arrive within a day or two: sometimes, even when Ali Express is cheaper, it is not-enough-cheaper to warrant waiting a month for the thing.
Thad E Ginathom is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 13:14   #5837
BHPian
 
Rohan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 245
Thanked: 232 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

A genuine doubt for the more experienced shoppers on the forum, especially the ones using Aliexpress and other international sites. I just bought a dashcam from aliexpress using an international debit card, and the payment was completed without any OTP or any other security code! My concern is, shouldn't they be asking for an OTP, which is sent to Reg. Mobile no.? Is this the bank's fault that OTP wasn't demanded or the portal's? Also, is this normal on international portals?
This is scary because anyone who gets hold of a card can simply enter details and spend!
Rohan24 is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 13:22   #5838
BHPian
 
diyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 517
Thanked: 578 Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan24 View Post
This is scary because anyone who gets hold of a card can simply enter details and spend!
This is normal for international transactions I think. The way you can protect it is if your bank provides you virtual one time use credit cards. Axis Bank and ICICI used to permit this earlier but have taken it out now. So off late I am using HDFC and you can set international transactions permitted or not and even the max amount to allow through online banking. This is some protection but not total.
diyguy is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 13:28   #5839
BHPian
 
Rohan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 245
Thanked: 232 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by diyguy View Post
This is normal for international transactions I think. .
.
.
. you can set international transactions permitted or not and even the max amount to allow through online banking. This is some protection but not total.
Thanks. Will have to check with my bank if something like that can be done.
It's surprising how no protection is offered for international transactions. What could be the reason for this? There must be something that's not feasible for them to ditch this process completely.
Rohan24 is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 13:38   #5840
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 10,958
Thanked: 26,126 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan24 View Post
Thanks. Will have to check with my bank ...
Do let us know what they say. Seems to me that sometimes an OTP is asked for, and sometimes not, at least with Amazon.IN. Aliexpress, I don't recall. I have a hunch that the banks' systems have some inteligence and recognise, then trust, transactions one does regularly. Just a hunch!

My preference is to use netbanking, but, of course, that is a domestic system. But doesn't the OTP system for card payments would work with international transactions?
Thad E Ginathom is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 13:43   #5841
BHPian
 
diyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 517
Thanked: 578 Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I have a hunch that the banks' systems have some inteligence and recognise, then trust, transactions one does regularly.
When I took up the issue with Axis Bank, they told me this exact same thing. However still doesn't give me comfort that my card is safe from fraudulent transactions. Ultimately the liability is with us, unless we cough up for protection (insurance), which is kind of expensive.
diyguy is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 13:58   #5842
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bir-Billing, HP
Posts: 478
Thanked: 895 Times

OTP system is only implemented in India. It is another layer of protection that was added to make it difficult to wrongfully use someone else's credit/debit card.
There is no such system implemented abroad. There you are only supposed to remember your CVV. Other countries believe that implementing such systems now would make it cumbersome for the people to use their cards. In India, we implemented this system very early when not many people were using cards for online payments, so not much of an effort was needed to re-educate people on how to use their cards.
rdst_1 is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 14:08   #5843
Senior - BHPian
 
arvind71181's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: TN-14
Posts: 1,095
Thanked: 1,686 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan24 View Post
A genuine doubt for the more experienced shoppers on the forum, especially the ones using Aliexpress and other international sites. I just bought a dashcam from aliexpress using an international debit card, and the payment was completed without any OTP or any other security code! My concern is, shouldn't they be asking for an OTP, which is sent to Reg. Mobile no.? Is this the bank's fault that OTP wasn't demanded or the portal's? Also, is this normal on international portals?
This is scary because anyone who gets hold of a card can simply enter details and spend!
OTP is only an Indian regulation, mandated by RBI. International transactions do not need them. Initially, even Uber used to directly charge from credit cards once the trip was done, they got into a huge mess for this and were forced to comply so they removed it, IIRC

RBI's safety first approach is way ahead of its times, I suppose
arvind71181 is online now  
Old 28th March 2018, 14:42   #5844
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 5,649
Thanked: 19,332 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan24 View Post
This is scary because anyone who gets hold of a card can simply enter details and spend!
For quite some time international transactions both online and at POS was done without PIN. But now, POS transactions abroad are now being done via the PIN authentication method. The method of OTP I guess exists in India alone. Eventually they should move to PIN based authentication even for online transactions to prevent misuse. That is the reason we should never share our card details to anyone. I am not sure if they will adopt OTP method in the near future. Best is to set the transaction limit and be safe.

I have no interest in HDFC matters, but even I use their cards for international transactions. Unless you specify it is enabled, they will decline all transactions which originate outside of India without OTP authentication.
audioholic is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 14:59   #5845
BHPian
 
rajivr1612's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chennai
Posts: 598
Thanked: 724 Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan24 View Post
A genuine doubt for the more experienced shoppers on the forum, especially the ones using Aliexpress and other international sites. I just bought a dashcam from aliexpress using an international debit card, and the payment was completed without any OTP or any other security code! My concern is, shouldn't they be asking for an OTP, which is sent to Reg. Mobile no.? Is this the bank's fault that OTP wasn't demanded or the portal's? Also, is this normal on international portals?
This is scary because anyone who gets hold of a card can simply enter details and spend!
As others have pointed the OTP is not used in international transactions.
The precaution that I have always taken for my debit and credit cards is to scratch out the CVV as soon as I receive the card. This way even if it is stolen it cannot be used for any online transaction.
rajivr1612 is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 15:50   #5846
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 10,958
Thanked: 26,126 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdst_1 View Post
There is no such system implemented abroad. There you are only supposed to remember your CVV.
When I last looked (not very recent), there was an additional password thing called, I think, Verified By Visa for online transactions using my RBS Visa Debit card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajivr1612 View Post
The precaution that I have always taken for my debit and credit cards is to scratch out the CVV as soon as I receive the card.


What a clever idea! Sort of obvious when one thinks about it, but I never did

The trouble is, it is all I can do to remember the PINs.
Thad E Ginathom is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 16:39   #5847
BHPian
 
Rohan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 245
Thanked: 232 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Do let us know what they say. Seems to me that sometimes an OTP is asked for, and sometimes not, at least with Amazon.IN. Aliexpress, I don't recall. I have a hunch that the banks' systems have some inteligence and recognise, then trust, transactions one does regularly. Just a hunch!
Quote:
Originally Posted by diyguy View Post
When I took up the issue with Axis Bank, they told me this exact same thing.
It's funny they should say that, because this was my first international transaction, so can't really say this is a kind of transaction I do regularly.

I guess the only way to be safe is set a limit or block international transactions completely as everyone has pointed out, and enable when you need to buy something.
Again, depends on how convenient this whole process of enabling/disabling is.
Rohan24 is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 18:44   #5848
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,533
Thanked: 5,477 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan24 View Post
I just bought a dashcam from aliexpress using an international debit card, and the payment was completed without any OTP or any other security code! My concern is, shouldn't they be asking for an OTP
This is scary because anyone who gets hold of a card can simply enter details and spend!
Actually, all the OTP system achieved is that certain kinds of workflows are difficult or impossible now. You cannot leave a card on record for recurring payments (eg: a subscription), for example. Your ability to change your mobile number is severely restricted. You lose your phone, and well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajivr1612 View Post
The precaution that I have always taken for my debit and credit cards is to scratch out the CVV as soon as I receive the card. This way even if it is stolen it cannot be used for any online transaction.
Ditto here, though not "as soon as". It takes me a few days to memorize the card number and the CVV2. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
But now, POS transactions abroad are now being done via the PIN authentication method.
"Abroad" is a broad term (pun intended). All it takes is one country/bank/merchant to not do it, and the whole edifice crumbles. The UK (I believe) was the first to go live with the Chip n Pin system; but for long they still had combined pin-reading and swiping POS devices because well, all the tourists that came to London didn't have chip-enabled cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
there was an additional password thing called, I think, Verified By Visa for online transactions using my RBS Visa Debit card.
And a corresponding offering from MasterCard called SecureCode. VbV and SecureCode are opt-in, though (sometimes mandated by banks or regulators).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan24 View Post
It's surprising how no protection is offered for international transactions.
Ultimately, credit cards are far safer than PayTM and other payment options. Some merchants try to take shortcuts, and when that goes out of control stuff hits the fan. And despite all the OTP and other stuff that RBI here has done, I find pretty much every payment gateway nowadays default to "store this card for faster checkouts" everywhere.
binand is online now  
Old 28th March 2018, 19:31   #5849
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 10,958
Thanked: 26,126 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by binand View Post
... ... And despite all the OTP and other stuff that RBI here has done, I find pretty much every payment gateway nowadays default to "store this card for faster checkouts" everywhere.
And despite never wanting this, Amazon, at least, has caught me out and stored my card.

Whilst there are some sites that say they are never privy to the actual card details, we can never be sure of anything.

It always "amuses" me that my phone pouch has a space for storing cards. That's like putting my name and address on my keyring! I would never keep my phone and cards even in the same pocket, let alone directly together.
Thad E Ginathom is offline  
Old 28th March 2018, 20:23   #5850
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,533
Thanked: 5,477 Times
Re: The Online Shopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
And despite never wanting this, Amazon, at least, has caught me out and stored my card.
I actually don't mind Amazon (and a few other sites) storing my card details. At least they have the inclination and know-how to do it the right way.
binand is online now  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks