[earthian]

Originally Posted by manim

When I feel that the battery is getting drained I run the genset till my batteries gets charged back to 100%.

1. Why not charge the battery with the discom power supply? Would it not be cheaper?
2. Is there any way to figure out the "battery is getting drained" automatically and program for charge accordingly?
3. Is it not hazardous to keep petrol and battery back up in the same vicinity?
4. What do you do to ensure that the power produced by the genset is NOT fed back to the grid, which could cause accidents if there has been a planned shutdown taken by the Discom to undertake repairs?
5. Any formal permission required to be taken from the Discom to use a generator?

[manim]

Originally Posted by earthian

1. Why not charge the battery with the discom power supply? Would it not be cheaper?

Of course the UPS batteries are charged continously by TNEB. What I meant was during many hours of power-cut I keep topping up the battery with the genset and switching it off, thus conserving petrol.

Originally Posted by earthian

2. Is there any way to figure out the "battery is getting drained" automatically and program for charge accordingly?

Unfortunately not possible with my UPS. It shows '99%' when fully charged, otherwise there is no way to know the level of charge left. Anwway I use my gut-feel based on the loads and recharge it. For example for my loads I have seen that it takes about 20 minutes to recharge back fully when the UPS is used for 1 hour. So about every 3 hours of UPS use the genset will run about an hour to recharge the batteries fully.

Also life of tubular-batteries are extended if they are not deeply discharged, so it is better not to let the batteries drain completely before recharging them.

Also nowadays all UPS are advanced in the sense that the charging is not by brute force, but in stages, that is, once they get fully charged it is put in 'trickle-charge mode', which ensures that only a mild charge is applied. This ensures that the batteries are not damaged. Also my electrical bill will be reduced!

My watt-meter(photo attached) shows about 40 watts during trickle-charge which is reasonable, because this charging is being done 24x7.

Originally Posted by earthian

3. Is it not hazardous to keep petrol and battery back up in the same vicinity?

I have given a thought to this already, but as I said in my earlier post, during actual run I push it further away. I ensure there is adequate free space around the genset.

Also for storage of petrol I bought a jerry-can(photo attached) designed to hold fuel, and with a built in funnel with a spring and air-vent so that spilling of petrol is avoided.

Originally Posted by earthian

4. What do you do to ensure that the power produced by the genset is NOT fed back to the grid, which could cause accidents if there has been a planned shutdown taken by the Discom to undertake repairs?

This is very important! you can see in the photo that I have a manual change-over-switch. So both the power sources are isolated from each other(There are also automatic change-over switches which I may install in the future).

I had the genset wiring, switches, etc installed by a qualified electrician which is important since this genset can generate upto 30 amps.

Originally Posted by earthian

5. Any formal permission required to be taken from the Discom to use a generator?

There is an authorized honda genset dealer in my town and I have paid a sky-high 18% gst-tax on this Rs.2 lakh+ priced genset to our wonderful government! So it is permitted by default!

[earthian]

Originally Posted by manim

There is an authorized honda genset dealer in my town and I have paid a sky-high 18% gst-tax on this Rs.2 lakh+ priced genset to our wonderful government! So it is permitted by default!

Thank you very much for the detailed answer. Very useful and illuminating (pun intended)

However, you may like to check again about permission. My take is that one would need permission, but my experience is of Gujarat.

Secondly, i shall be installing an automatic start and stop when discom power supply is interrupted- How reliable are these panels?

edit: And where did you source that jerry can? Thanks.

[manim]

Originally Posted by earthian

where did you source that jerry can?

Amazon of course!

There are metal and plastic cans. I was afraid that the metals ones may get rusted in a few years time. And the rust particles may get into my genset engine damaging it. So I opted for the plastic one.

Originally Posted by earthian

What do you do to ensure that the power produced by the genset is NOT fed back to the grid

Here is a photo showing my manual change-over-switch up close (on the left). I also have a Bosch-C3 battery charger to charge the (small 11.8 AH) battery of the genset (for its electric starter) during long periods of unuse.

The display (with switches) on the right shows the voltage and current used for the various circuits.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by manim

Also for storage of petrol I bought a jerry-can(photo attached) designed to hold fuel, and with a built in funnel with a spring and air-vent so that spilling of petrol is avoided.

I have the same can! For the same generator, too .

It was expensive, maybe two to three thousand, but is greatly superior to the simple cheap things that drip and spill and have tops that don't last. Once one develops a knack, the built-in valve makes tank filling so easy.

I wanted another one: it had had greatly increased in price, and now gone not available.

How long do you keep your petrol. I keep it longer in the generator fuel tank, but if anything is still in the can after two or three months, we give it away to auto-driver friends.

Originally Posted by earthian

And where did you source that jerry can? Thanks.

As we have mentioned, on Amazon, but no longer available.

Plainly, Manim and I are happy with our generators, but if I expected to be doing frequent running, I'd certainly go for diesel.

[earthian]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Plainly, Manim and I are happy with our generators, but if I expected to be doing frequent running, I'd certainly go for diesel.

Care to elaborate that, Thad?

[manim]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

How long do you keep your petrol. I keep it longer in the generator fuel tank, but if anything is still in the can after two or three months, we give it away to auto-driver friends

I had given much thought to this before I had bought the genset: Since power-cuts are unpreditable how can I keep the petrol fresh? Old petrol can damage the engine.

Since I have a petrol car this problem is solved to a good extent. I buy about 10 litres at a time in the jerry-can. But I maintain only about one litre in the genset which gives me about one hour run-time for emergencies (for my load it consumes around one litre/hour).

After a month if this petrol in the can is unused, I pour it into my car, and buy fresh petrol. And this cycle repeats!

But I have another problem: my car too is not used much nowadays, and it is a brand new Honda-City (only 2+ months old). So I ensure that the petrol levels in my car too is kept at the minimum.

If after all this planning I still get stuck with old petrol in the genset, I have another trick up my sleeve! I bought a Siphon at Amazon which I had used a couple of times to get old Petrol out of the genset back into the jerry-can and then into my car (I have attached an excerpt from the genset-manual which recommends using a siphon to drain the fuel).

Though I have to go through all this nuisance! I have complete peace-of-mind regarding power, and worth it for me.

The Siphon I bought:




Excerpt from the genset-manual:

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by manim

I had given much thought to this ...

Wow, you certainly have! Very impressive. I like your planning.

We tend to get in situations like the current one. Over the past couple of weeks, apocalyptic rainfall has been expected in Chennai. It didn't happen, but still we broke rainfall records.

Anyway, I had been expecting power to be cut as soon as streets became waterlogged, so I filled up the generator and then sent the can for another 10 litres.

What actually happened: in the past two weeks, we have had about ten minutes of power cut. So we now have a lot of petrol. I have a diesel car, hence the occasional giving away.

(Kudos to TNEB. Amazing that they kept the power on. Of course, all areas were not so lucky: a friend was without electricity for over a week)

Originally Posted by earthian

Care to elaborate that, Thad?

Simply fuel consumption (or "efficiency" as it is is known in this part of the world). I think that, all other things being equal, a tank of diesel is going to get you a lot more runtime than one of petrol.

[earthian]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Anyway, I had been expecting power to be cut as soon as streets became waterlogged, so I filled up the generator and then sent the can for another 10 litres.

Simply fuel consumption (or "efficiency" as it is is known in this part of the world). I think that, all other things being equal, a tank of diesel is going to get you a lot more runtime than one of petrol.

There is a safety aspect too. and i don't know whether diesel clogs more in comparison to petrol?
10 litres would last you how long? Though, the pumps also may not have electricity and hence even getting fuel in jerry cans could be an issue- so better to stock up.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Fuel tank capacity is 19l. I'm guessing it might take a litre per hour.

This model comes with inverter-technology "eco" throttle. It can be switched in or out. It controls the revs to match the current demand, otherwise it runs always at full revs.

I always use it. Even the 2hp pump causes less revs, although the starting surge is probably not good for it.

[manim]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I'm guessing it might take a litre per hour

It consumes three litres an hour at full load, that is, at 5500 VA. At 1/4th load it consumes about one litre an hour. I rarely need to go above 1/4th load.

It can handle 7 KVA for upto 10 minutes.

The above information is what I learnt from various sites on the web.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by manim

It consumes three litres an hour at full load, that is, at 5500 VA.

Wow, I didn't imagine that it would be that much! But, with the eco switch, ours never runs at full load, probably nothing like it, not even with a couple of AC machines.

I did put both old and new 2hp pumps in the pit a couple of days ago. This would probably push it to full load or over, in fact stuff might start melting. But this was only just-in-case a do-or-die situation developed. One 2hp pump shifts a lot of water falling from the sky on 3,500 sq feet: it just might not handle water coming in through the gate as well.

(Once the gate is totally breached, well, that's it, of course: hello 2015, we're flooded out.)

We want to get away from this house, but don't know if we can. My project for next year will be raising the gate combined with a higher and better-designed hump.

[earthian]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

(Once the gate is totally breached, well, that's it, of course: hello 2015, we're flooded out.)

In 2015, my wife, daughter and i left at 5 am in the morning and the deluge started that day. We just escaped and drove all the way back to A'bad in a Nissan Sunny, via the National parks. 2nd Nov, wasn't it?

My parents were marooned for more than a month. no electricity for 15 days or so. Water? Don't remember.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Yes, Earthian, but December.

[earthian]

Originally Posted by manim

This is what I do manually with my 7 KVA EU70is Honda portable petrol genset and the Luminous-Cruze 2 KVA UPS (with 2 no.s 200 AH batteries) in combination.

I let the UPS handle the important loads during short power-cuts. When I feel that the battery is getting drained I run the genset till my batteries gets charged back to 100%.

I am contemplating having the following:

1. Kirloskar 12.5 KVA "Bliss" 4 stroke DG
2. Enertech Servo controlled voltage stabiliser~30 KVA.- any idea about cost?.
3. Eaton or Schneider or Numeric or Enertech Online UPS for 15 min back up- about 1.5 lacs

I require the UPS mainly for the security cameras/NVR; computer and my CPAP during the night. What capacity to go in for?

Is the above overkill? Would be grateful for some advice. Thanks.

edit: I was told about a power box in addition to DG: I do think that is overkill.