The Home Appliance thread

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by saket77

Oh...but good that you got it replaced. Also good to know that they made 'considerable efforts'. How would you rate the after sales service of IFB?

& how is the new DW doing. Which particular model was it. If you can point out your post, I will be interested in going through it.

Regards,
Saket

After sales here is not too bad and not too great either. However, for me the product quality is always much more important than the service standard. After all, the best service/warranty is the one that you never need. Of course, if both are good, you might be in Shangrilla.

The model is IFB Neptune. Will try and search thru earlier posts.

The replacement has hardly been used like once in 15 days (just for the sake of keeping it running!). The reason is that we have a very good maid since. So machine is used only in her absence. So can't really comment on its durability. However, I must say that the replacement machine seems to be of a tad lower build quality than the earlier one. They also made the spoon basket a lot less convenient and un-detachable.

The replacement also did not happen that easily. Their umpteen efforts to fix the original machine caused huge inconvenience as the repair men would come at any time... even 11:30 pm. Often they would fiddle around for couple hours at a time. Replacement happened only after dozens of such failed efforts and several dozen phone calls, etc.

Overall, not terribly happy with IFB. I'd consider a Siemens or LG or something, if we were to buy another one.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

No, we didn't eat brass nuts, and dissolved copper and zinc are beneficial, not harmful! The annoying part was the nut breaking midway through grinding, and the lady not knowing how to complete cooking with the half ground masala! Fortunately, we have a Braun stab mixer with a small grinding jar, so she is able to finish grinding after removing the pieces of brass nut.

None of the appliance companies (even Philips, Kenwood and Panasonic) make jars themselves. They are electrical appliances companies, and their forte is the electrical part. They only specify and do QC on the vendor's product. In the motor part, the only thing that can irrepairably fail is insulation covering the wires of the motor.

The *only* mixie company I have seen passing the test of time in Indian kitchens is Osterizer from US (they have different glass jars with removable interchangeable blades), but they don't sell in India. The only thing that failed in 25 years was the gasket that seals the blade and the jar. Moulinex is the next best, again not sold in India.

The after-market jars are made by the same guys selling the same jars at a higher margin. The snafu is slightly worse finish, possibly because the metal parts may be the ones rejected by Philips standards. Usually cost ~200, IIRC.

Grinding efficiency depends on the blade geometry, and Philips blades are definitely better than others.

Errr... I'd not be so sure of that! Surely you are joking? Cu and Zn my be essential trace elements, but not in that form!! In that form its more likely toxic than anything else. It would neither be food grade nor in the desired compound form.

After market jars can be had for Rs. 200? Thats news... the repair shop where my mom went quoted 1,400 bucks! She just laughed her way out. Would have to ask elsewhere.

Grinding definitely depends on the blade/jar geometry. And Philips shines there... but anybody knows how it compare to Panasonic?

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

... Errr... I'd not be so sure of that! Surely you are joking? Cu and Zn my be essential trace elements, but not in that form!! In that form its more likely toxic than anything else. It would neither be food grade nor in the desired compound form. ...

Please do check out which compounds are used in food supplements to add Cu and Zn. Definitely CuSO4 and ZnCl are harmful (not toxic) in trace quantities, but there is no H2SO4 nor HCl in tamarind juice or vinegar, right?

Originally Posted by Raccoon

... the repair shop where my mom went quoted 1,400 bucks! She just laughed her way out. Would have to ask elsewhere. ...

Obviously. That repair fellow was trying to make a fast buck. Please check out local shops that sell steel vessels, kitchen utensils, stainless steel drying racks etc. They also sell mixies, rice cookers, casseroles etc. if you notice. Or go and ask in a Philips brand shop - they can get you a replacement jar since they are not traders.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

... but anybody knows how it compare to Panasonic?

I wouldn't trust the Japs on this - they don't grind masalas. Philips doesn't make and sell mixies in Netherlands, only in India - these are designed and manufactured in India. Kenwood, Panasonic etc. sell derivatives of machines used for western home cooking, not Indian home cooking. Have you ever used a coffee grinder as a masala grinder? If you have, like I have, you will know what I am talking about. Osterizer, Moulinex, Kitchen Aid, etc. are used in professional kitchens. Lot of difference.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

The *only* mixie company I have seen passing the test of time in Indian kitchens is Osterizer from US (they have different glass jars with removable interchangeable blades), but they don't sell in India. The only thing that failed in 25 years was the gasket that seals the blade and the jar.

Oster does sell in India - http://www.oster.in/ProductCategory.aspx?cid=3541

However, I had an Oster in the US - 50$ one. It had minor leaks after 2 years. Also it was 500W, not 600+ like many Indian ones.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Osterizer, Moulinex, Kitchen Aid, etc. are used in professional kitchens. Lot of difference.

The professional mixers/blenders made by these same companies are very expensive. I think it would cost 250$+ abroad.

[Raccoon]

Response inline in below quote:

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Please do check out which compounds are used in food supplements to add Cu and Zn. Definitely CuSO4 and ZnCl are harmful (not toxic) in trace quantities, but there is no H2SO4 nor HCl in tamarind juice or vinegar, right?

First we'd need to know the exact composition of the metal used for making the nut...

Obviously. That repair fellow was trying to make a fast buck. Please check out local shops that sell steel vessels, kitchen utensils, stainless steel drying racks etc. They also sell mixies, rice cookers, casseroles etc. if you notice. Or go and ask in a Philips brand shop - they can get you a replacement jar since they are not traders.

Thanks, that is very useful info. Will check out such places.

I wouldn't trust the Japs on this - they don't grind masalas. Philips doesn't make and sell mixies in Netherlands, only in India - these are designed and manufactured in India. Kenwood, Panasonic etc. sell derivatives of machines used for western home cooking, not Indian home cooking. Have you ever used a coffee grinder as a masala grinder? If you have, like I have, you will know what I am talking about. Osterizer, Moulinex, Kitchen Aid, etc. are used in professional kitchens. Lot of difference.

The Panasonic mixer I checked out at Vijay Sales couple days ago was Made In India. Designed where, I don't know. While you may well be right, I guess we need someone who has actually used a Pana mixer for grinding masalas to comment. Build quality (and warranty) of Pana is decidedly better than Philips, and price is only slighly higher, so would not like to let it go unless we can be sure.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by carboy

... I had an Oster in the US - 50$ one. ... it was 500W, not 600+ like many Indian ones....
The professional mixers/blenders made by these same companies are very expensive. I think it would cost 250$+ abroad.

I have seen the same $50 one being used in restaurants in US. Rugged workhorse. By 'professional ...' I meant these companies are able to bring design practices into the smaller models. Obviously larger capacity / heavier duty cycle ones will be costlier.

And, the Power Rating really doesn't matter, as long as the load (quantity and material being ground) is not changed. If you really go into the details, you have to look for 'continuous power rating' of the motor. Power Rating is a Sales tool.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

First we'd need to know the exact composition of the metal used for making the nut...

I thought Brass composition is pretty obvious. The malleability and machinability changes with the ratio (more zinc, harder brass). There are no other metals in that alloy.

[Raccoon]

^^^If that be true, then mayhap we have Philips to thank for being concerned about our nutritional needs.

Originally Posted by deep_bang

We just got a panasonic and it is quite nice. The build quality is top class. our 10 year old "national" still runs well except that the jar is damaged. The new one has options like the motor doesn't not run till you close the lid, and such safety features. Also, I got this online for about 3800 when the normal price outside was about 4500.

May I know where you bought it from? Any idea of any current deals? Checked out at a shop 2 days back and the shop price is only 150 bucks higher than the lowest quote I could find online. Unless the difference is higher, its much more preferable to buy offline.

[guptavis]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Guys, what is the smallest sized refrigerator? Brand Recommendation and Approx pricing?

P.S: What do we normally do for fridges that go kaput? Sell it in kilogram basis or give it away ( if yes, who will take a non working fridge?)

I saw an electrolux 80L fridge for Rs 7990 at Croma on tuesday. Also there was a 60L croma branded one for Rs 7000. I guess you have to visit a store and find out the size you want to buy.

i think you can give it to Big Bazaar in their yearly exchange scheme. They give ~ Rs 3000 coupons for a washing machine. i think fridge was also 2k-3k.

this was running when i went ot their store around 20 days ago. i think they have it til 31 March or something.

[Red Liner]

Where do I get good meat grinders in Bangalore? What should I look for? What brand? Know nothing about this. Zilch.

Apparently there's an automatic from Panasonic, that starts from 6,500 bucks and then there are some manual ones from "Choudhrys" (?) which start from a grand.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

^^^If that be true, then mayhap we have Philips to thank for being concerned about our nutritional needs.



May I know where you bought it from? Any idea of any current deals? Checked out at a shop 2 days back and the shop price is only 150 bucks higher than the lowest quote I could find online. Unless the difference is higher, its much more preferable to buy offline.

I got the 300 AS for 3900 bucks and then hopped to the Panasonic showroom to find out that it was available for 3600 bucks! Bangalore - if it helps you. Massive markdown from the MRP prices.

Am pretty happy with this unit. Just got it a couple of days back. I put in seeded dates (didn't read the cover thinking it was seedLESS), and the unit just ground it into chunks.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Guys, what is the smallest sized refrigerator? Brand Recommendation and Approx pricing?

I plan to get one just to store beverages as summer is already in.

Our large fridge is currently overflowing and other fridge went kaput.

P.S: What do we normally do for fridges that go kaput? Sell it in kilogram basis or give it away ( if yes, who will take a non working fridge?)

Smallest refrigerators come in 60-80L sizes. There are two technologies
- Normal compressor types. These are relatively cheap
- Vapour adsorption type - these have no compressors hence are extremely quiet, and that is the reason these are preferred in 5* hotels. The draw back is that they cool slower and cost much more. Electrolux was a leader in these types of refrigerators.

Regarding disposal, my neighborhood "Kabadi Walla" buys all sorts of junk. Recently I sold my 10+ year olf IFB for 2K to him.

Originally Posted by ramki067

Thanks very much amohit. If you don't mind, i had one last question though!
We use more than 5-6 kadais on daily basis. How much does the DW capable of holding large kadais in one wash cycle?

Regards,
Ramki

As far as I know, oily and sticky stuff like kadai require a pre wash, else the dish washer will either get overloaded or spend a large quantity of soap.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Last week I finally got rid of my 10+ year old IFB. I did a thorough survey and here is the result

IFB
- These are now manufactured in India
- The only WM with 4 years of warranty
- The tubs are at least 50% larger compared to the Korean ones
- Use belt drive, hence are louder than the direct drive

LG
- Direct drive motor, hence extremely quiet
- 2 years of warranty on machine
- 10 years warranty on the motor
- Tub is 2/3 the size of a comparable IFB, hence more loads are required. On the other hand as you cannot stuff it like IFB, less chance of motor overload

Samsung
- Specs similar to LG
- 2 years warranty on machine and 5 years on the motor
- Each corresponding model costlier than LG by 2k or so.

Bosch/Siemens
- Same technology as IFB, hence bigger drums
- Electromechanical models are in the 20-22K range, same as IFB
- Higher end models are priced at stratospheric levels
---------------------------------------------------------------
In spite of having IFB and the fact that it came with 4 year warranty I finally went for LG, 6kg model - F12b4ND25 (http://www.lg.com/in/washing-machines/lg-F12B4ND25) as the family liked the size and silence of the LG machine.Cost us 33K+7K for extended AMC. Now every repair & spare part is taken care of, for 6 years.

My experience after 5 days and 10+ washes
- Extremely quiet
- A shallow drum. The machine is 2/3 the depth of IFB.
- Each load is about 2/3 of the IFB we had, hence lot more loads. If you are existing user of European WM - IFB, Bosh, Siemens etc go for at least 8kg models if you want the same capacity, else be prepared to run at least twice the loads.
- Cycle time is 50% longer. The longest was - cotton + prewash + intensive = 4H 30m. The shortest was 30m for woolens
- IFB controls were simpler - cycle, temperature, spin speed, 1/2 load and spin stop.
- LG has a cycle dial and over rides - spin speeds, pre wash, intensive, etc. So effectively you have to set up every time you use it if you want a custom cycle.
- Water consumption per wash is much lower than IFB, so I guess that on the whole, as there are more loads the total quantity of water used for a medium family is the same. The lower load can benefit small families.

What have I washed? My house is getting painted, hence everything is in a turmoil and is getting dirty. Add to that the fact that it is spring hence there had to be a general cleaning if woolens.
- 4 loads of sheets
- 2 loads of mats and towels
- 2 loads of woolens
- 4 loads of general cloths mix
- 1 load of Holi clothes
we have been running at least 2 loads a day, and yesterday it was 4 loads. The only dumb thing I could find is that
. The machine displays "End" at end of the cycle for 2 minutes
. It then switches the display off
. The door unlocks after three more minutes. I cannot fathom why the display does not switch off after the door is unlocked? Seems that an overworked programmer was given the task and the QA was fast asleep.

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I got the 300 AS for 3900 bucks and then hopped to the Panasonic showroom to find out that it was available for 3600 bucks! Bangalore - if it helps you. Massive markdown from the MRP prices.

Am pretty happy with this unit. Just got it a couple of days back. I put in seeded dates (didn't read the cover thinking it was seedLESS), and the unit just ground it into chunks.

Pana showroom I guess can be expected to rip you off. I was quoted 3.9 k at Vijay Sales couple days ago. Thats for the 3 jar one... so I guess it must be the 300 AS. Only they didn't have it in stock. They said they will get stock in 2 days. Best online price I could find is/was just about Rs. 100 or 150 less than this... not worth buying online for such a small difference.

Btw, can you please comment on its ability to grind masalas and stuff relevant in the Indian context?

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Pana showroom I guess can be expected to rip you off. I was quoted 3.9 k at Vijay Sales couple days ago. Thats for the 3 jar one... so I guess it must be the 300 AS. Only they didn't have it in stock. They said they will get stock in 2 days. Best online price I could find is/was just about Rs. 100 or 150 less than this... not worth buying online for such a small difference.

Btw, can you please comment on its ability to grind masalas and stuff relevant in the Indian context?

What I meant is go to the Panasonic showroom and ask them for a discount. I didn't do that thinking it was a big showroom and all. Meh.

And it does everything well as everyone else has said. Just get it :-)

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by guptavis

i think you can give it to Big Bazaar in their yearly exchange scheme. They give ~ Rs 3000 coupons for a washing machine. i think fridge was also 2k-3k. i think they have it til 31 March or something.

Thanks for this input. Will exchange from BB if they still have this offer running. Will check it out over the weekend.

[quadra]

I recently purchased a 30Ltr LG convection microwave. Here is the link

I got it for 15k change including 2 yr croma extended warranty (effective for 2nd year and 3rd year. 1st year is LG's own warranty)

I was inclined towards Samsung as they recently had introduced the ceramic based cavity (inside of the microwave) instead of a normal stainless steel. The good think about ceramic is that it is scratch proof. The flip side is, its just a coating of ceramic on a stainless steel. Nevertheless, Samsung is confident that this ceramic cavity will last long and hence is giving 10 yrs warranty on ceramic coating apart from the normal 1 yrs warranty on the microwave.

LG had more auto-cook menus. The general feedback is 90% of the times people dont use it all be it whatever brand. Lazy bums i say.

The shape of MOTORISED ROTISSERIE is different with LG and Samsung. While LG has a barbecue stick which sits on 2 holes on opposite walls and rotates (like a normal hotel grill). Samsung has an arrangement wherein the barbecue stand needs to be placed on the glass bowl first and then place the entire thing in the microwave.

Both offer microwave starter kits which includes few m/w save utensils.

TIP: Read the user guide of the product available online. This will help you understand various features available & then when you talk to the salesman, you shall win.

[pjbiju]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

...
Does anyone have any experience with Panasonic mixers? Are they worth the close to double price?

Originally Posted by deep_bang

We just got a panasonic and it is quite nice. The build quality is top class.
...
Also, I got this online for about 3800 when the normal price outside was about 4500.

Originally Posted by Pallavi

I have been using Panasonic mixers for 10 yrs and no problems with the machine till date. Had to change 2 jars but our usage is heavy. Idly/dosa batter + chutney atleast 4 days a week.

Go for Panasonic. It is worth the extra price.

We had a Braun Multiquick ZK300 mixer grinder that served us well for a long time from 2000 until we broke the blender jar blade. It still continues to work well with the chopper and dry grinder jars. I have not been able to get a replacement blade since the model is no longer in production and they have also stopped selling mixer grinders in India. I have not seen any mixer grinder in the Indian market that is as good as those Braun ones in terms of build and blade quality and also the safety features.

We then bought a Morphy Richards mixer grinder that was terrible in terms of quality. Something or other kept failing in the jars. And then I started searching for another mixer grinder. Looked at everything and found that Panasonic had the best build quality and a better design than all others including Philips. It was not as qood as the Braun one, but close enough.

So I bought Panasonic MX AC 400 mixer grinder with 4 jars about a week back. The cheapest online price was Rs. 4430 and this had an MRP of 5695 (old MRP 5465). I got this from a shop in Aundh (also an authorised service center for Panasonic) for Rs. 4500. I would have got another Rs. 100 off if I had given him my older mixer grinder. So far it has been quite good. We are yet to use all the jars. Hope it lasts us well.

+ves
- A much better coupling design than all the others
- Plastic quality of the jars are better than the others
- The quality of rubber gaskets also seem to be better than the others
- The safety mechanism is also good (have not checked this on others)

The blade locking mechanism seem to be similar to others. But hope that it lasts without issues.