[diyguy]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

You have to install it in the ground floor. We have the following setup
Bore-well Motor -> 500 litres sintex tank input(Ground floor)-> Sintex tank output-> 0.25HP motor ->Sediment Filter->3M Softener -> Sump -> 2 HP motor ->Overhead tank
My neighbor has a similar setup with minor changes
Bore-well Motor -> 500 litres sintex tank -> Sintex tank output-> 1.5HP motor ->Sediment Filter->3M Softener -> direct to Overhead tank

sagar, if I look at most installation pictures of the 3M softener and the recommended install approach, it is always installed in the delivery line from overhead tank to the house piping. This means the 3M softener is not stressed beyond a couple of minutes and could be realistically only 1 or 2 taps at a given time. But when the 3M softener is installed in a live line or source to destination line such as borewell to tank, it is stressed continously for the 500-1000L that is needed to be processed. Will this reduce the life of the softener device or the resin?

Originally Posted by Aroy

3. PATHOGENS.
UV treatment gets rid of most of the bacteria and some viruses in treated water.
So an integrated solution for water treatment consists of three components
. Sedimentation filter
. Salt elimination
. Pathogen

I have not conisdered pathogen treatment yet and will do so once I have finished with the 3M install. 3M have a filter called Safe Kitchen and I may go for this in the future. A recent water test that I did indicates the water is safe to drink after boiling, but has no information on pathogens. It shows a TDS of 1550 and a hardness of 490

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

20 Year old 1HP motor may get overwhelmed pushing the water through the softer. Thumb rule is a softer consumes 0.25HP of the pump motor. So you will be left with 0.75HP. The additional restriction of water flowing through softer can cause your motor to go bust since its pretty old.

Originally Posted by rdst_1

There are a few issues I see with this setup.
Firstly, there shouldn't be a water flow control valve after the borewell submersible pump. You may end up burning the motor. My 1100W submersible fills 1000L in 8-10 minutes and that is when it is 150ft below the ground. Every submersible pump has a delivery size specified and one shouldn't reduce that pipe size especially so close to the head of the pump.
Both are very easy to backwash and maintain and would really help prolong the life of your expensive softener cartridges.

I plan to open up the valve completely so that the additional piping I plan to install (details below) does not make the flow too slow. Will know more after the plumbers start the work, maybe in a week or two.

Originally Posted by krish_veera

What about you? Did you install it already?

Thanks folks for all the input so far. I have now narrowed down on the following approach.
1.) 3M Mesh filter - steel with backwash - 50 micron
2.) 3M 5 Micron sediment filter
3.) 3M Softener

I was earlier planning to install it on the ground floor in my backyard, but had some miscreants steal our outside chrome taps and a steel drum yesterday. So it is no longer viable or safe to install it there. I also cannot install it on our terrace as there is no easy access to it. We have sloping roofs before reaching a flat area and there are no stairs leading up there. Have to use a ladder which is not very safe.
I now intend intercepting the borewell to overhead tank pipe at the first floor, diverting with a L connection to my first floor service area at a pipe length of about 3-4 meters into the filters, softener and exit back to the 3-4 meter journey back to the pipeline going up to the overhead tank. There will probably be 6 bends that will get added due to this flow diversion.
The configuration is going to be as below
Borewell jet pump-->existing piping upto 1st floor--> New branch at 90 degree 4 meter-->3M Steel Filter-->3M sediment filter-->3M Softener--> new return branch 4 meter back to existing piping to over head tank.

I also want to add a 1HP pressure pump to my overhead delivery line as the flow to my first floor bathrooms are pretty weak. Ground floor pressure is fine today though.

My additional complications are
1.) We have 2 over head tanks - 500 L which services taps outside the house and a service area on the ground floor.
2.) 1000L tank that services the 4 bathrooms and kitchen.
3.) I need to turn valves from one tank to the other every day to fill them up separately, which is an added headache.

There are 3 or 4 pipes from these 2 tanks that descend into the house.

I plan to eliminate the 500L tank and only use the 1000L one. I will be joining the 4 delivery lines to a 1HP pressure pump.

Need advice of which pressure pump and type to purchase and if 1HP is too much? One dealer near my home (Tech Pumps) told me to go with a normal pressure pump without storage.
I have a 24Kg capacity Samsung washing machine in the ground floor service area and a dish washer that I am concerned about. will these devices get spoilt if the pressure from the pipes is too high? Piping is UPVC and some internal pipes may still be GI.

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by diyguy

Thanks folks for all the input so far. I have now narrowed down on the following approach.
1.) 3M Mesh filter - steel with backwash - 50 micron
2.) 3M 5 Micron sediment filter
3.) 3M Softener

Any reason for going for 3m and not for other alternatives available in the market. If one was to go by Amazon prices, their products seem to be way way overpriced. Their 20 inch housing for the sediment filter sells for 15k whereas other alternatives in the market are available for just 1.5-2k.

I also want to add a 1HP pressure pump to my overhead delivery line as the flow to my first floor bathrooms are pretty weak. Ground floor pressure is fine today though.
.

Was the flow always low or has it decreased over time. If it has, then that means you need to get your pipes checked and cleaned/replaced. If they are blocked, then adding a pressure pump can cause the pipes to burst. We have the same problem and I am installing new unconcealed pipes instead. Would cost lot less than a pressure pump.
If you still feel the need then Grundfos are supposedly the best out there although quite expensive compared to offerings from other manufacturers.

[diyguy]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Any reason for going for 3m and not for other alternatives available in the market.

Was the flow always low or has it decreased over time.

chose 3M for the reason that it needs only monthly maintenance unlike other brands that need to be touched every 5-7 days. I was very serious about a softener from mega but they said that their softener cannot do 1500+ TDS levels. That's when I turned to 3M. I also visited a 3M installation nearby and they are using a similar configuration with some extras for pathogens included, all from 3M. The 3M Softener needs filling of salt once a month which is another advantage. It also does an automatic regeneration based on predefined settings and hardness levels and keeps track of water flow etc. Finally the Amazon prices are actually cheaper than distributor pricing in Chennai.

The flow has always been low in the first floor bathrooms. I think the overhead tanks are not high enough to provide the force. Grundfos was hoping to avoid from a cost perspective. Got a quote from Tech Pumps for 20k for a 1HP pump but I see Crompton to be a lot lower online.
I am in a rental house and can move the pressure pump with me, so was considering doing it along with the softener setup.

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by diyguy

chose 3M for the reason that it needs only monthly maintenance unlike other brands that need to be touched every 5-7 days. I was very serious about a softener from mega but they said that their softener cannot do 1500+ TDS levels. .

Then just buy their softener and the sediment and mesh filter from other vendors. At least buy the housing from someone else. The sediment filter housing plus 5micron 3M filter costs around 19500 on Amazon.
Whereas an alternate housing and the same 5 micron 3m filter will cost you just 5.5k.
Same goes for the mesh filter.

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by diyguy

Need advice of which pressure pump and type to purchase and if 1HP is too much? One dealer near my home (Tech Pumps) told me to go with a normal pressure pump without storage.
I have a 24Kg capacity Samsung washing machine in the ground floor service area and a dish washer that I am concerned about. will these devices get spoilt if the pressure from the pipes is too high? Piping is UPVC and some internal pipes may still be GI.

I have a grundfos pressure pump and several plumbers I spoke to swear by that. It does have storage, and that's how it allows one to set a pressure range. That way you can look at the pressure ratings of all your devices and set it appropriately.
The look and feel of the pump looks top notch and has been working for over 5 years.

BTW how does a normal pump work? How it know when to switch off the pump?

[NPV]

Looking at 7kg capacity washing machines, found the Siemens iq300 series a good bet. How are the comparable models from the Bosch range ? Is there a real difference in product quality and service to differentiate them ?

[diyguy]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Whereas an alternate housing and the same 5 micron 3m filter will cost you just 5.5k.Same goes for the mesh filter.

Thanks, let me check this out. I am wondering about possible leaks. I can possibly also get this maybe from the US on my next trip in that case.

Originally Posted by deep_bang

BTW how does a normal pump work? How it know when to switch off the pump?

They do have a pressure control module attached which provides this capability I understand.

[hrman]

Originally Posted by NPV

Looking at 7kg capacity washing machines, found the Siemens iq300 series a good bet. How are the comparable models from the Bosch range ? Is there a real difference in product quality and service to differentiate them ?

I have a Bosch 6.5 Kg WM. Good so far , its been two years.
Bosch had a JV with the home appliances division of Siemens and a new entity called Bosch Siemens Home appliances was made. As of now, the entity is owned by Bosch who has the license to make and market the Siemens brand of household appliances. The products are basically the same. Most company showrooms show both brands side by side.
From what I know, there should be no difference in technology or sevice levels as it is the same company.

[abhi7013]

Hello members, am in need of a 7kg front load washing machine and a 250L minimum capacity refrigerator as well. I tried going through the thread but as new products keep making it to the market, thought of seeking suggestions.
Looking at products which come with a long warranty period.
Individual budget of 30K for both the washing machine and the refrigerator.

[drsingh]

Originally Posted by abhi7013

Hello members, am in need of a 7kg front load washing machine and a 250L minimum capacity refrigerator as well. I tried going through the thread but as new products keep making it to the market, thought of seeking suggestions.
Looking at products which come with a long warranty period.
Individual budget of 30K for both the washing machine and the refrigerator.

Bosch 7 kg Fully-Automatic Front Loading Washing Machine (WAK20160IN, White) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B00OT9CLX2/..._FIF5Ab27PC3X6

Samsung 345 L 3 Star Frost-Free Double-Door Refrigerator (RT37M5518S8/HL, Elegant Inox, Inverter Compressor, 5 in 1 Convertible) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B078WF9VDH/..._6NF5AbQ4TR172


Consider spending more for this model of Samsung refrigerator as it comes with the flexibility to convert freezer to mini fridge or additional fridge space as required. This is a practical feature. Otherwise inverter models from LG, Samsung, Whirlpool are available for 25-30k for 250-350 ltr capacities.

[NPV]

Originally Posted by hrman

From what I know, there should be no difference in technology or sevice levels as it is the same company.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by drsingh

Bosch 7 kg Fully-Automatic Front Loading Washing Machine (WAK20160IN, White)

Bit confused looking at the specifications of various models on the Bosch website.
For example when comparing WAK20160IN with the WAK20161IN, there deosn't seem to be any (major) difference at all, but WAK20161IN retails at about Rs.3000 more.

Also, I was looking at comparing these parameters. Do let me know if I'm on the right path

1. Spinning speed. Is 1000 rpm enough or go with higher series variants that offer 1200/1400 rpm speeds ?

2. Capacity - 7Kg seems to be enough (now have an IFB 6Kg machine so 7kg should suffice)

3. Noise levels (surprisingly the larger capacity machines seem to have lower noise levels!)

4. Cottons programs - the lower variants seem to support 90 degree Celcius wash programs, but the higher ones have just 30 and 60 degree ?

5. Digital countdown indicator - good to have

6. Power consumption/energy efficiency - the higher variants with larger capacity seem to be more energy efficient and consume lesser power compared to the lower variants ?

[abhi7013]

Originally Posted by drsingh

Bosch 7 kg Fully-Automatic Front Loading Washing Machine (WAK20160IN, White) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B00OT9CLX2/..._FIF5Ab27PC3X6

Samsung 345 L 3 Star Frost-Free Double-Door Refrigerator (RT37M5518S8/HL, Elegant Inox, Inverter Compressor, 5 in 1 Convertible) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B078WF9VDH/..._6NF5AbQ4TR172


Consider spending more for this model of Samsung refrigerator as it comes with the flexibility to convert freezer to mini fridge or additional fridge space as required. This is a practical feature. Otherwise inverter models from LG, Samsung, Whirlpool are available for 25-30k for 250-350 ltr capacities.

Thank you for the suggestions! The refrigerator seems nice looking at the convertible option. I was not aware of such a feature. Are there other refrigerators under 30k which have this convertible option? Cause we could benefit with the extra fridge space!
Coming to washing machine, as i was going through the bosch machine specs which you shared, i came across this:-
Bosch 7 kg Fully-Automatic Front Loading Washing Machine (WAK24168IN, Silver) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B00OT9CS5S/..._AvS5AbZVEMFC5

Any feedback? Seems to have good ratings.

Edit: found this refrigerator with the convertible option under 30k:-
Samsung 275 L 3 Star Frost Free Double Door Refrigerator (RT30K3723S8, Elegant Inox, 2 in 1 Convertible,Inverter Compressor) https://www.amazon.in/dp/B01EHYF52W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_yzS5AbRTT0NT6

[Thad E Ginathom]

1k spin is more than enough unless you are unable to hang washing outside to dry during rains, or you want to take stuff straight from machine to ironing table. In these cases you will be happy to have highest speed available.

90 degree wash is for sterilising stuff. Eg baby nappies (diapers in American). Otherwise 60 or 40 is enough.

I wash underwear at 60, everything else at 40... Or even cold. Anyway the water from a chennai roof tank is never actually cold.

If you have children that come home covered in mud and grass stains. Or if you lie on your back under the car, look for prewash. My Bosch doesn't do it, which is unbelievable, but only occasionally irritating.

If you have special needs like washing silk, look for appropriate gentle programs (and never use "biological" detergents with enzymes!).

Quick wash programs are the most useful! Eg my clothes are seldom actually dirty, but often just sweaty.

[sgiitk]

Heard that Kenwood have pulled out of India. So one excellent brand is lost. Let us see who replaces them.

[Aroy]

I personally prefer LG for both WM and refrigerators. Both come with 10 years warranty, and the refrigerators are "Inverter" types.

90 degrees is ideal for heavy linen like bed sheets, mats, bath towels and oily kitchen towels. Once you get used to towels washed at 90 degrees you will never settle for lower temperatures.